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Hypothetical GM: What If The Nationals Had To Trade Zimmerman? Do You Think You're Better Than DC GM Jim Bowden? Prove It!

I received an email from grover, over at Athletics Nation, the SBN's A's blog, early last week with an interesting proposal...

(After first assuring me that he wasn't looking to start a "flame war" with federalbaseball.com readers), grover wrote:

"I like to talk trade scenarios over at AN and I've found that getting input from from the fans of the other side tends to lead to a more interesting and realistic discussion.

"So, if the A's came calling about Ryan Zimmerman how would Jim Bowden respond? How would you respond?!?! Would the Nationals be willing to discuss a trade involving Zimmerman and what would they want/need in return. Now, I know one automatic response would be to ask for the 3 best prospects in the A's system (the other automatic response is "go to H _ _ _" but I'm going to ignore that one for now) but the changing tide of prospects-for-vets trades and Zimmerman's 2008 performance makes that an unrealistic price tag.

 

"What would it cost to acquire Ryan Zimmerman? You don't have to know the A's system, just tell me what positions you're looking at and I can tell you who's available. Everyone in the Oakland organization is available providing they can actually be traded per MLB rules, so no one from the 2008 draft class can be included."

My first response...

"First of all I'd say that if GM Jim Bowden even considered trading Zimmerman, (after failing to ink '08 1st Round Aaron Crow and continuing to trade for former Reds), DC fans would completely revolt. In spite of an injury-filled season, the Nationals have clearly identified Zimmerman as the face of the franchise, and one of the key components in the Nationals' rebuilding effort, so trading him now would not sit well at all...that being said, though Zimmerman always says the right things, I got the sense he wasn't happy that DC didn't lock him up long term before this season, and just renewed him at a modest pay increase, and they'll be negotiating for real this time around, so I can (sort of pretend to) imagine a hypothetical scenario in which he might become avaiable...

The Nationals drafted Chris Marrero as a third baseman, but have moved him around to OF/1B with Zimmerman established at third, but I imagine Marrero or Kory Casto could man third competently for a few years if Zim was dealt...the Nationals have drafted a lot of pitchers recently and the outfield and infield are set for now with young starters at the major league level, (though MLB-ready position players in the system are hard to identify), so I'd think it would have to be a high-end pitching prospect, (or two), and a fielder, (1st base is particularly weak) coming back in return for DC to ever consider a trade...So who do the A's have?

grover's response:

"For 1B, why not start with Daric Barton? He's certainly struggled this year but his minor league track record plus his September 07 in the Show advocate his worth. Midland's Sean Doolittle has split time in the OF and 1B (where he's considered a very good defender) and hit 40 doubles and 22 HR between Stockton and Midland. He's a legit 1B prospect. Probably the A's best position prospect is 1B/3B/OF is Chris Carter. 38 HR as a 21 year old in High-A ball but K's are an issue. That's about it for 1B.

 

I didn't see any future catchers in the Nationals' org. How about Stockton's Josh Donaldson? Everyone above him pretty much (stinks) so I won't waste your time.

 

Any interest in former Philly farmhand Adrian Cardenas to play 2B?

 

Pitching wise, from what I've read Beane won't deal Cahill or Anderson but a lot of teams have asked about 21 year old Vincent Mazzaro, currently in Sac's rotation. If Gio GonzalezDana Eveland or Greg Smith intrigued they'd probably be available."

That's as far as the talks have progressed, and I stalled grover this weekend while I had federalbaseball.com's scouts look into the A's prospects (alright I was really on vacation), but the A's GM is on the line now and he wants some answers, things are happening quickly, and you now have 24-48 hours to make something happen? I linked the A's prospects to their MiLB pages and here's the SBN blog "Minor League Ball" written by John Sickels, and mssickels' recent rehashing of "Oakland Athletics Top 20 Prospects Review" from January, 8, 2008. You think your better than DC GM Jim Bowden? Prove it! Make a deal to better the team!...Suspend disbelief and try to get the best deal you can for Ryan Zimmerman...

0 recs  |  Comment 17 comments

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Initial response to the latest offer...

The Nationals just drafted a catcher Adrian Nieto, who comes highly recommended, and they have a young Jesus Flores in DC already…so I don’t know about the catcher…

Daric Barton’s ‘07 season would have definitely had me interested, but this season’s .224 AVG with Oakland is less impressive…So he’s a possibility…(My scout says, "I like that kid, like his swing, he hasn’t done it yet, though.")

154 K’s by Mr. Carter are impressive, but not in a good way. Though, he’s got the kind of power #‘s GM Jim would probably salivate over…32 doubles, 39 HR’s, 104 RBI’s at High A Stockton…

Mazzaro gets a mention at the end of Minor League Ball’s piece on the A’s…and his (11-3) ‘08 season with Midland, where he’s posted a 1.97 ERA in 21 starts and 132.1 IP, definitely stands out…

Brett Anderson? Oh, not available, darn!

Having just added, Bonifacio and Gonzalez, after re-signing Guzman for two years, and with Esmailyn "Smiley" Gonzalez making a name for himself in the GCL, I’m not sure about how much DC needs the middle infielder…Cardenas? He did put together a nice ’08 season all together however…

So…Barton, Carter, Mazzaro and Anderson have me interested…I’ll look into (an)other pitcher(s)…

Let’s see what someone has to say…

Everything I say is a "little" sarcastic.

by Ed Chigliak on Sep 2, 2008 2:59 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

I apologize to any Jesus Flores fans

I saw the sub-.300 OBP and figured he wasn’t irreplacable but I didn’t check his age and at 23 if he makes you happy then you probably won’t be looking hard for another catcher.

FYI, there was some early talk in Oakland of converting Cardenas to 3B when he came over, he has the arm and glove to handle the job but the A’s wanted to see if maybe he had the range to go back to SS. Believe me, if you had Bobby Crosby as your SS you’d try just about anyone to find a replacement! Matter o’ fact, I’m scheduled for a try-out on Friday, so that’s why there’s a time issue.

On a more serious note, I’d appreciate some help on getting up to speed on Zimmerman’s shoulder. Obviously he’s healthy enough to play, but did he need surgery to fix the tear? Is he going to need surgery in the offseason? In the spirit of full disclosure, what’s up doc?

The monster at the end of this blog.

by grover on Sep 2, 2008 7:02 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

No surgery...

…just rest, and no surgery scheduled for off-season. Zimmy’s been getting back to form recently, making the aggressive, highlight-reel plays at the hot corner, and finally pulling his OPS+ up over 100 again (it was 96 going into yesterday’s 1-3, HR, 2BB outing).

Even if forced to do it, I’m not sure there’s a trade worth making with Zimm that will help the team be competitive in the ‘10-’11 timeframe. The holes in our lineup are a #1-#2 starter, and Adam Dunn—er, a big, left-handed bat (sorry, I’ve had to watch way too many trades with the Reds in the last couple of seasons). His injury-shortened 2008 aside, Zimmy creates and saves a decent number of runs—certainly more than Casto would, though we could probably pencil him in for league-average by 2010. Making up the difference and providing some improvement would call for a real talent—a ML-ready 1B with a big bat, softer hands than DMeat and more reach than Belliard (think Nick Johnson 2006 with 5 more HR), or a pitcher in AA or higher who projects to a #1 or #2 starter. We’re overloaded with #3 starters or “potential” #3 starters right now—it’s basically our entire rotation and farm system. Who would make that trade for RZ given his 2008 season?

"I'm always proud of a walk. I love walks. That's my mantra." --Sooper Dooks

by Doghouse on Sep 2, 2008 8:23 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I don't think there's a "there" here.

Carter looks like the most interesting position player—he might project to a big bat, although we don’t know much about his fielding. He’s basically an older Chris Marrero without the broken leg—but will he be MLB-ready in 2010? Frankly, the pitching prospects all look like they might be solid #3 starters some day… I don’t think the As have anything that helps us, or that helps us enough.

"I'm always proud of a walk. I love walks. That's my mantra." --Sooper Dooks

by Doghouse on Sep 2, 2008 8:35 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

I can respect that point of view

I was asked to throw an offer out there so you could say your bit. I’d appreciate a reply.

The monster at the end of this blog.

by grover on Sep 3, 2008 3:58 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

this discussion is pointless

no offense grover, but it’s a time-wasting exersize to deal in these types of hypotheticals.

Your voice of doom and gloom.

by Dave at Bottomfeeder Baseball on Sep 2, 2008 12:38 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Aw, c'mon, Dave! It's just for fun.

What we really need is Mark Teixeira, except younger and less expensive. Can we get that for Zimm? Looks like not from the As, and probably not from anyone who had such a creature, either. Actually, I’d settle for the 2006 version of Nick Johnson…

While it may be silly to think about filling our gaps by trading Zimm to the As, what do you think are the holes that we need to fill? Is it the top of the rotation? Is it fleshing out the IF prospects in the minors? Is it Tex-Ra?

Going in the vein of managements “generic” description of a “left-handed power-hitter,” what are the baseball archetypes we’re glaringly missing?

"I'm always proud of a walk. I love walks. That's my mantra." --Sooper Dooks

by Doghouse on Sep 2, 2008 1:44 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

It's either this or

watch our respective teams fight for the higher draft pick in 2009.

The monster at the end of this blog.

by grover on Sep 2, 2008 10:43 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

So...

About that minor league catcher?

Everything I say is a "little" sarcastic.

by Ed Chigliak on Sep 2, 2008 8:23 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

SIGH. So... we get Strasburg now?

"I'm always proud of a walk. I love walks. That's my mantra." --Sooper Dooks

by Doghouse on Sep 2, 2008 9:16 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Josh Donaldson

Minor league link.

He’s projected to be no more then an average defensive catcher at this point but (if he stays in the A’s system) he’s definitely AA bound next year plus he’s headed to the AFL in a few weeks.

The monster at the end of this blog.

by grover on Sep 2, 2008 10:48 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

So an offer...

We haven’t discussed a lot of names, so if there’s someone in particular that catches your eye, let me know.

Barton, Donaldson, Mazzaro & Cardenas for Ryan Zimmerman.

The monster at the end of this blog.

by grover on Sep 3, 2008 3:57 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

I think this is why Jim Bowden never pulled the trigger on a deal for Cordero(when he was healthy and sought after)

…and why when he finally did trade a closer, Rauch, some (myself included) were disappointed that all a semi-legit closer brought back in return was what seemed like a light-hitting infield prospect…Unless the A’s were to include one of their two top pitching prospects the Nationals would never trade Zimmerman. As soon as I looked at the A’s prospects Brett Anderson stood out and I quickly remembered that he was on the list of those the A’s wouldn’t deal in your email…

Maybe after the long-term deal Zim signs is up, they’d (have to) consider it, but for a power hitting first baseman, with little injury history, (til this year), a .281 AVG, 21 HR’s and 94 RBI’s average per 164…I’d want Anderson and Mazzaro, or Anderson and Barton/Carter…

Everything I say is a "little" sarcastic.

by Ed Chigliak on Sep 3, 2008 7:30 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Zim isn't worth Anderson at this time

If Zimmerman had posted numbers similiar to 2006 or even 2007 I’d agree that Anderson would have to be included but your boy didn’t so my boy ain’t.

I didn’t think you’d go for my initial offer but a fake GM can hope, right?

I’m willing to package Mazzaro and Carter and you can pick two more guys not named Anderson or Cahill. Any of the A’s 84 LHSP interest you?

The monster at the end of this blog.

by grover on Sep 3, 2008 10:43 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Damn! Thought the hard sell would work...

(currently regrouping)

Everything I say is a "little" sarcastic.

by Ed Chigliak on Sep 3, 2008 11:49 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Not my 1st rodeo

Nice try though

The monster at the end of this blog.

by grover on Sep 4, 2008 12:10 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

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