Get Ready to Shred. Blueline's Offseason Suggestions
As my beloved Nats plummeted to their second consecutive 59 win season (just think if they hadn't won the last seven!), it's clear to me that the old "lipstick on a pig" band-aid isn't going to work this offseason. Mike Rizzo and Co. have a lot of work to do, and though I'll have absolutely nothing to do with it, I'm going to brainstorm some ideas. I'm not the first member of this support group to do so, and I doubt I'll be the last. While I'll certainly comment on others' thoughts when they post them, I'm not necessarily saying my ideas are better or worse than anyone else's... sometimes they're just different (I remember feeling like I was coming off a bit antagonistic around the trade deadline in here, so.........). At any rate, my detailed ideas on what the Nats should do this offseason. I guess I'll begin by naming most of the current core:
C - Flores, ?????
1b - Dunn
2b - Desmond/Guzman
SS - Desmond/Guzman
3b - Zimmerman
LF - Willingham
CF - Morgan
RF - Dukes
Bench: Justin Maxwell, Willie Harris, Alberto Gonzalez, Pete Orr, Mike Morse
SP - Lannan, Detwiler, Olsen, and then the glut of Stammen/Mock/Balester/Martis/Martin and hopefully not Livan
RP - Clippard, Burnett, MacDougal, and no... I don't trust any of the rest (come to think of it, I don't trust MacDougal)
Primary Needs: A dependable starting middle infielder, two or three starters (at least one near the top of the rotation), and about 25 bullpen arms! I'd say closer, but paying top dollar for a closer is a waste when you can't get the game to him.
Analyzing what's available: Let's go with a top ten, including the likelihood that the Nats would have a chance at the player and that he'd be a good fit, in the starting pitching department: I'd set my budget around $25 to $30 million if I wanted to make the team competitive (challenging ..500).
1) Rich Harden (Type B), CHC - An injury waiting to happen? Most likely, though Harden has enjoyed consecutive pretty healthy (particularly for him) seasons the past two years after making just 16 appearances in 2006 and 2007 combined. Harden would be beneficial for the Nats in a handful of ways. For starters, if he's healthy, he'd absolutely be the ace of the staff. Secondly, he'd bring an excellent mentor for the few young power pitchers in the Nats' system (notably, Strasburg and the injured Jordan Zimmermann, though you could throw Detwiler in that mix a bit as well). What's more, Harden isn't coming off of his best season (4.09 ERA [4.35 FIP], 1.34 WHIP, though he's proven he can stay relatively healthy) and may be a bit devalued because of that.... despite the fact that he's just hitting his prime (27 years old). The assumption is that a great season could have pushed Harden towards a deal similar to that signed by A.J. Burnett with the Yankees last year. The more likely scenario is that he'll want to sign a relatively short-term (1 or 2 year) deal in the $4 to $6 million range. I say you take a shot at getting a potential ace cheap and spend up to $8 million per if you can get a third year tacked on with incentives that could push it a little over $10 million if he hits them. I feel Harden should be their top priority of all players available.
2) John Lackey (Type A), LAA - Chances are that he's priced out of what would be an acceptable gamble for the Nats to sign him. My plan centers around finding 5 or 6 players (2 starters, a starting middle infielder, and some bullpen arms, one of whom will be in the $3-5 million range) through free agency, and blowing half of that budget on one starter would fit into the "lipstick on a pig" that I started with. Barring the Diamondbacks declining Brandon Webb's option (not gonna happen), Lackey will be the top free agent pitcher on the market this offseason, and he's going to sign for $12 million+. I love the big game experience and the bulldog mentality. I do think that the Nats should throw their name into the proverbial hat and make a little run at him, but don't think he's a player worthy of breaking the bank for. He's also four years older than Harden.
3) Tim Hudson, ATL - I think he re-signs with the Braves (rumors are already flying that they pretty much have a done deal), so I'm not going to elaborate much. If not for the availability issues, I think Hudson would be a great fit if they could get the deal done at around $10 million per (about what the expectation is with Atlanta). I also think that if Hudson is going to sign a three year deal for between $27 and $30 million (the rumor), that means Lackey is certainly going to sign for at least $12 million.
4) Brett Myers, PHI - He's certainly been disappointing the past couple of years with the Phillies, but Myers has proven that he's capable of handling a top three spot on a contender throughout most of his career. At 29, there's still plenty left in the tank, and his disappointing (injury-marred) 2009 campaign probably bumps him down from the $8-10 million we would have expected him to sign for when he hit free agency in, say, 2007, to less than half of that. Myers is another good, proven (but still fairly young, at 29) option who likely signs a relatively short-term deal below market value so he can try and cash in next time around. Look for him to sign a 1 or 2 year deal for around $4 million per. That could be worth gambling on. Unlike Harden, I don't try and attach a couple of million onto a deal to try and add a third year.
5) Erik Bedard (Type B) , SEA - I'll be the first to say that signing both Bedard and Harden would probably end in disaster. That said, the small chance that they could both stay healthy could transform the Nats' rotation from one of the worst in the league to one of the top five. Bedard would be another guy looking to sign a short-term deal and have a big year wherever he goes to capitalize later. I think he signs for less than Harden (injury troubles are more recent), but I also don't feel quite as good about Bedard as I would about Harden. Expect him to sign an incentive laden deal for somewhere in the $3-4 million range.
6) Carl Pavano (Type B), MIN - A return to the National League should suit him, and while the traditional numbers don't completely bear it (5.10 ERA, 1.37 WHIP), he did have a pretty good season between the Tribe and the Twins (4.00 FIP). He's also a pretty solid indicator of what can happen when you sign a player below market value coming off of a bad year (or, in Pavano's case, contract). Pavano was signed for just $1.5 million with incentives by the Tribe last offseason.
7) Joel Pineiro (Type B), STL - I don't advocate signing 31-year-old pitchers with poor strikeout rates coming off of career years, but Pineiro could give the Nats a decent legitimate #3 starter. Now, if only they really had a legitimate #1 and #2 starter.
8) Vicente Padilla (Type B), LAD - Really was a pretty solid pitcher in Texas. He was outstanding in Los Angeles after returning to the National League. By no means is he a front-line type (the only real potential front-line starters that are on the market this season will be Lackey and Harden... maybe Bedard... maybe Sheets), but he's a nice middle of the rotation type. He's a league-average type who will sign in the $5-$6 million range.
9) Ben Sheets, FA - Didn't pitch at all this year. When he's healthy, he's one of the top 15-20 pitchers in the game. He's never healthy, though.
10) Jason Marquis (Type B), COL - I think I just threw up in my mouth a little bit. Honestly, Randy Wolf would be a much better fit, but there's no way the Dodgers fail to retain him. I'd even prefer to go after an ageless wonder like Smoltz, Randy Johnson (who I assume retires), Tim Wakefield, or even Jose Contreras. Andy Pettitte is mysteriously absent from this list because I believe he retires if he doesn't re-sign with the Yankees.
My goal, above all else, would be to sign Rich Harden and then complement him with one of the other options listed (preferably a Myers or Bedard, who will both certainly be available, but I could live with a Pineiro or Padilla), setting up the Opening Day rotation as follows:
Rich Harden
Myers/Bedard/Pineiro/Padilla
A hopefully healthy Scott Olsen, who I think the club should offer arbitration to depending upon his rehab progress
Detwiler
Strasburg should begin the year at High A ball. Assuming he's progressing nicely, he should make a few starts at A+, a few at AA, and possibly some time in AAA before reaching the bigs. Be prudent and patient with him, and this isn't just to delay his arbitration clock. Let him develop.
Closers
Pretty much every decent, experienced closer available (with one exception, though I have a non-closer who could close I'd prefer over a few who is a Type A) is a Type A Free Agent, so if the Nats go after a closer, the top pick in the second round is history. So be it.
1) Rafael Soriano (Type A) - Screw the injury history when he was in Seattle. Soriano is hands down the best reliever on the market this season (he's also the youngest, at 30), and the fact that he has less career saves than most of the other closers on the market may keep his price somewhat reasonable. The safe money says that Atlanta re-signs either Soriano or Mike Gonzalez (not both), and whoever they don't sign ends up hitting the market. While the fact that Soriano served as their primary ninth inning guy this season would indicate that they'll probably try and retain Soriano, my belief is that they might feel they have a cheaper alternative in Gonzalez and let him walk. He should be worth $7 million+ even in this market, but I doubt he goes that high.
2) Jose Valverde (Type A) - Down year in the save department (25) because he missed May and the Astros weren't that great. He still displayed strong peripherals and big strikeout numbers. At 32, he's younger than any closer who could hit the market other than Rafael Soriano. Valverde has electric stuff, and he's crazy enough of a guy to continue succeeding in the ninth. The concern is that he has enough experience as a closer and strong enough numbers so that he'll be the highest-priced closer on the market, and it doesn't make much sense for a team that's won 118 games the past two years to put that much of a premium on the ninth inning.
3) Mike Gonzalez (Type A) - Depending upon who (if either of them, depending upon whether they accept arbitration) the Braves retain, Gonzalez would make for a fine addition at the back of the bullpen himself. He has plenty of experience in the closer's role, keeps the ball in the yard, and brings big strikeout production to the table. The problem is that he struggles with the walk at times, which means he'd fit right in (I guess).
4) Billy Wagner (Type A) - Unfortunately, his outstanding effort down the stretch for the Red Sox probably means he still sees a big contract. Wagner wants to close, which means he won't be staying in Boston, and he's still going to be fairly affordable after throwing just 62 innings the past two years. He's 38, but if that arm's healthy, it's got three more years in it.
5) Rafael Betancourt (Type A) - Neither Fernando Rodney nor Kevin Gregg excite me at all. Betancourt's option ($5.4 million) certainly won't be exercised by the Rockies, and he's probably going to sign in the $3 million range. A poor 2008 dropped his star quite a bit, but he served as arguably the top setup man in the game in Cleveland in 2007. After a decent rebound in Cleveland, he was an absolute monster for Colorado upon being acquired there. He's 35, has no real closing experience (18 years scattered throughout his 7 year career), but his stuff screams closer. He wouldn't be "draft & develop" cheap at the back of the bullpen, but he'd also be someone who could hold the fort until a guy like Storen may be ready to take over the role in a few years.
Other Bullpen Options
Kelvim Escobar - Talk about a rehab project, but the talent's certainly there if he's ever healthy again. Could be a steal as either a starter or a reliever.
J.J. Putz - All I can come up with from this list are rehab projects. Convert starters. There's not a chance in hell the Mets pick up his $9.15 million option.
Middle Infield
The ideal situation for me is trading Cristian Guzman for a solid prospect (anywhere on the field but 3b), finding a 2b, letting Desmond start, and rolling with either Pete Orr or Alberto Gonzalez as the utility infielder. The more likely scenario is that they can't find a taker for Guzman, in which case they should sign a 2b, start Guzman 4-5 times a week at SS, and allow Desmond to serve as a backup getting 4 starts a week between 2b and SS.
1) Chone Figgins (Type B), ANA - The good: Figgins had a terrific UZR/150 this year, actually ranking third at his position. The bad: Figgins has seen the bulk of his work at third base since 2007, and never really proved to be a very good defensive 2b earlier in his career. The ugly: Particularly since he's being projected as a Type B Free Agent and because he's coming off of his best season, Figgins is going to be highly sought after this offseason. I expect him to be priced out of the Nats' range, but I do believe that whoever signs him will sign him with the intent of moving him back to the middle infield. Nyjer Morgan's presence would drop his value a bit to the Nats, as they wouldn't need to have him take over the leadoff spot.
2) Orlando Hudson (Type A), LAD - I kind of flip-flop between whether they'd be better off going after a guy like Hudson or Placido Polanco, but I think that the fact that Polanco's hitting style mirrors that of Cristian Guzman so much means I'd rather have Hudson. Improved defensive metrics tell us that Hudson is certainly not the annual gold glove candidate he was earlier in his career... in fact, he's been below replacement level with his fielding at 2b the past two years (that's the plus for Polanco that makes me go back and forth). I think that what cinches my decision to go with Hudson over Polanco is the fact that he's two years younger, and probably is less likely to decline than Polanco.
3) Placido Polanco (Type A), DET - Apart from his absolute lack of patience (averaged 36 walks the past three years... which is actually higher than his numbers throughout his career), Polanco brings plenty to the table. He's a fantastic average-hitter who always puts the ball in play. He's consistently displayed double digit home run power since 2002. The former utility man has also turned himself into quite the defensive second baseman, having finished with a positive UZR/150 in each of the past seven seasons, including a +8.5 in 2009, leading all second basemen. He's good defensively, he's a great contact guy (read: hit & run behind Nyjer Morgan), and he probably won't be insanely expensive.
4) Felipe Lopez (Type B), ARI - Been there, done that. He's solid across the board, but Bowden shipped him away after struggling a bit for a year and a half.
5) Ronnie Belliard (Type B), LAD - Shrug. This is turning into a list of guys the Nats dealt away/let go. He tries to conceal his lack of range by playing in short right field, and usually does OK with it. He should certainly have been the starting 2b from the start of the year (though he wasn't 100%), but Acta botched that.
I could live with the Nats looking for a backup/co-starting catcher, given the fragility we've seen out of Flores the past couple of years. The available 1b don't excite me much, though I could live with the Nats trying to sign Hank Blalock if they can do so cheaply (won't happen) to free up Dunn or Willingham on the trade market a bit more. I don't see an outfielder I'd break the bank on, and think they're better off rolling with Hammer, Morgan, and Dukes (with Maxwell as a roving fourth outfielder and [hopefully] a healthy Bernadina as the number five).
So, with all the options out there, here's what I'm thinking. Again, limit the budget to $25-$30 million. I'm not going to go overly aggressive with any of the figures, but I'll try and be realistic:
1) Sign Rich Harden (3 years, $7 million per with incentives that could push it up to $10 million per if he reaches them)
2) Sign Brett Myers (2 years, $4 million per)
3) Offer Scott Olsen arbitration
4) Commit to Ross Detwiler remaining in the rotation full-time
5) Sign Rafael Soriano (3 years, $7 million per) or Mike Gonzalez (2 years, $4 million per) or Rafael Betancourt (2 years, $3.5 million per)
6) Sign Joaquin Benoit (1 year, $2 million)
7) Sign Placido Polanco (3 years, $7 million per)
Going with the highest end options on that list, (Harden, reaching the incentives for $10, Myers for $4, Soriano for $7, Benoit for $2, and Polanco for $7), we're looking at $30 million. While I feel that the $7 or $8 million may be high for a proven injury risk like Harden, teams like the Nats are going to have to overpay a bit because they're not going to get players to pick them as a "winning destination." It's a pretty similar situation with Polanco (it would appear the Tigers are going to decline his $6 million option for this season because of Magglio Ordonez's $18 million vesting option kicking in). In this scenario, here's what the club would look like next season:
C - Flores/???? (Nieves, most likely... yuck)
1b - Dunn
2b - Polanco/Desmond
SS - Guzman/Desmond
3b - Zimmerman
LF - Willingham
CF - Morgan
RF - Dukes
Bench: Justin Maxwell, Roger Bernadina, Ian Desmond, Mike Morse, Wil Nieves
SP - Harden
SP - Lannan
SP - Myers
SP - Olsen
SP - Detwiler
CP - Soriano/Gonzalez/Betancourt
Setup - Clippard
LH Setup - Burnett
RP - Benoit
RP - MacDougal
And then piece the rest of the bullpen together with converted starters, though Storen looks like he may play a role by the end of 2010.
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I would be ok with this, wouldn’t mind seeing Schneider come back though to help behind the dish.
by pas493 on Oct 27, 2009 4:16 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
As Ive said earlier
We’re coming off about $30m worth of payroll this summer…so the shopping list you just desccribed seems well within reach. Looking forward to seeing this all unfold.
Padilla walked into the Nats' clubhouse for the first time and said, "My God. I'm in heaven."
by Mezza on Oct 27, 2009 8:35 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Nothing wrong with that list at all
I just feel that the organization can’t get all these guys to come to Washington to play ball. I left Harden off my own list because I certainly see the Cubs offering him arbitration. However, I would take Harden over any of the starting pitcher no the FA market, including Lackey (mainly because of the truck full of cash it would take to get him).
I really only disagree with Chone Figgins, because he’s such a dog pile defensively at 2B. Sure his speed is great, but his bat goes colder than ice at times. He’s a bit too streaky, but at the very least he gets on base. When he’s on the base paths he’s a speed demon. Overall though, he’ll comand too much money and the Nats can’t pay him premium dollars to be a back-up 3B/part-time 2B/part-time LF/part-time scrub.
Polanco on the other hand would be a fantastic addition, but do we have a chance at getting him? He’s not only a very reliable man at the dish, but last season he had just 2 errors in 731 chances! He doesn’t walk a lot, but if we can trade Guzman, we’ve found a more reliable and durable number 2 hitter. He hacks as much as the Gooz, but walks more and strikes out less. If we hang onto Guzman, at least we know our middle infield won’t be completely inept defensively with Polanco at 2B, and we’d have too very good contact hitters in the lineup. Stuffing Guzman down at the 7 hole wouldn’t be terrible.
For the most part, I’d love to see Guzman traded, but his contract makes that hard to happen (I assume). Ian Desmond is the future at SS, and I agree that he needs to get his starts in, if not becoming the full-time SS.
As for the bullpen arms, really I can’t disagree with any bullpen arms coming to town, we do need 25 of them.
by Andrew Davidson on Oct 28, 2009 1:26 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
This year we could move Guz
Harder to move a 2 year $8m/yr contract than a 1 yr $8m contract. We should be able to move him easier this year because the Nats could eat some of the payroll and no other team is locked in next year.
Padilla walked into the Nats' clubhouse for the first time and said, "My God. I'm in heaven."
by Mezza on Oct 28, 2009 10:42 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
RIZZO CAN DO ANYTHING. WooHoo
by ROSCOEtheNATSfan on Oct 28, 2009 10:58 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
[Points to head]
Padilla walked into the Nats' clubhouse for the first time and said, "My God. I'm in heaven."
by Mezza on Oct 29, 2009 2:41 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Noone of Hardens talents will sign with the Nats
Unless we seriously overpay (which I hope we do not do) because most players care more about winning and status than money (we do not want the guys that care about money more than winning). Meanwhile, look at that Tigers team that lost 100 games. They had all these real young pitchers on that team and most of them eventually turned into pretty solid SPs, then they won the WS. I would rather follow that route than overpay for SPs who are always hugely risky. Plus, our biggest problem is infield defense, our defense killed our pitching last season, and that can’t be truely fixed as long as the worst fielder in baseball plays first base for us. Lets save our money and let the young pitchers improve for an entire season, then maybe sign some FA pitching when we have a chance to win more than 80 games with the core. Right now our core is probably not going to win many more than 70 so adding Harden lets us win maybe 75… who cares.
By the way, Polonco’s defense, while still good, has gotten worse every season over the last three and he is on the downside of his career, so I expect him to be not much better than average defensively at second next year. That is better than what we got last season, but hardly a savior. Probably just a few runs better than Guzman at second with a slightly better bat so maybe he adds about a win over Guz. Recall second is easier to play than SS, so Guzman should be a better 2B than SS by some amount and he was roughly an average SS last season, so it is fair to expect nearly average work out of Guz at second next season. It might be better to see what Desmond brings to the table for a season frankly. He has much more potential upside.
"What you know is often the enemy of what you can learn" Bill James
by PhDBrian on Oct 28, 2009 7:38 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
oh and I would bet money Livan will be in our rotation next season.
He is not a great pitcher, but he really wants to pitch for us and is reportedly willing to take a below market deal to do so. Therefore, he will be in our rotation for 180+ innings next season and likely a low 5s era. I am sure he will win 10, but I also think he will surely lose 15 or more. On the other hand, the guy knows his craft well and should be a real positive influence on the youngest pitching staff in baseball.
"What you know is often the enemy of what you can learn" Bill James
by PhDBrian on Oct 28, 2009 7:46 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Guess I'll start regarding Livan
You’re certainly right that he’s not a great pitcher. The fact of the matter is that he was considerably better in 2009 than 2008, when he was arguably the worst regular starter in MLB. In fact, among qualifiers for the ERA title, he had the highest ERA in baseball (5.44) in 2009 despite lowering his ERA 3/5 of a point (6.05 in 2008, which was actually better than the Tigers’ Nate Robertson). Perhaps the weirdest thing is that Livan’s FIP was actually worse in 2007 (a whopping 5.77, though he finished that season with a 4.93 ERA) than it has been in either of the past two years (4.94 in 2008, 4.44 in 2009).
Simply put, Livan’s numbers the past three years don’t scream that he’s not a “great” pitcher. They scream that he may no longer be a “major league quality” pitcher. Prior to the 2009 season, he had signed a $1 million deal with the Mets. If you’re saying below market value, I assume you mean you think he’d sign for the league minimum, which might still be too much in my eyes. Maybe I just don’t see the value of signing a guy like that. I realize he could be a mentor to some of the young guys on the staff, but signing a veteran who has been among the bottom two in ERA in each of the past two years (65th out of 80 qualifiers in 2007) doesn’t exactly inspire confidence.
Regarding Harden and some of the other names I mentioned… Yes. I realize that the Nats are certainly going to have to win bids with money above all else. They don’t have the tradition factor in their favor. Nor do they have any good recent history to fall back upon to try and lure free agents without being the absolute highest bidder. This is why I’m suggesting that their bids be a bit on the high side, both in terms of years and guaranteed money. I view Harden as a player in a comparable position to that which Brad Penny was in last season. He’s certainly not coming off of as bad a walk year as Penny (6-9, 6.27 ERA in an injury-depleted season) was, but he also doesn’t have quite the consistency (predominantly of health and durability) that Penny does. That’s actually saying something, as Penny hasn’t been the most durable guy throughout his career. Penny signed a 1 year, $5 million deal last season with $3 million in potential bonuses. My suggestion on the base salary on a Harden offer is a bit higher than that, and I’m of the mindset that this year’s free agent market will end up a lot more similar to last year’s than the past. The economy is still down, and that was certainly reflected in pretty much every player that signed with the exception of the three major players the Yankees bought.
I’m not sure where you get the information regarding Polanco. You could be right for all I know. Fangraphs disagrees, though.
UZR/150 for Polanco from the past five years:
2005: +15.4
2006: +7.7
2007: +12.0
2008: +3.6
2009: +8.5
That’s certainly hasn’t gotten worse every season over the last three years. I’ll gladly admit that 2005 was his best season at second base, and I’ll also admit that based on his age, he should be in slight decline, but the numbers don’t back that up. My suggestion that they go out and sign a second baseman has more to do with Desmond than Guzman (I think you all know I don’t like Guzman, but……..), though.
With Guzman in the final year of his contract, signing a second baseman would allow for a smoother/easier transition for a guy like Desmond so that he could get comfortable as a backup/utility man getting three or four starts a week instead of having the immediate pressure of being thrust into a starting role. If he’s playing well enough and looking confident enough to supplant Guzman as the starter by midseason, bonus. If not, you have the contingency plan of Guzman in the final year of his contract to handle the SS position and Polanco to handle 2b.
Regarding that Tigers team that lost 100 games (and the team that went to the World Series a few years later)… There are fewer similarities there than most people want to admit.
Rotation
2003: Jeremy Bonderman, Mike Maroth, Nate Cornejo, Adam Bernero, Gary Knotts
2006: Jeremy Bondeman, Nate Robertson, Kenny Rogers, Justin Verlander, Zach Miner
- Maroth was off to a solid start in 2006 before getting injured in June and pretty much missing the rest of the year. He made all of 9 starts in 2006.
- Nate Robertson worked his way into the rotation late in 2003, making 8 starts and turning into a league-average starter until last season. He did have his best season in 2006, so if you want to make him part of your argument, fine.
- Verlander could be the Strasburg in this equation, I guess? He was drafted second overall in 2004, and was the best pitcher on the 2006 team.
- I guess you can try to equate Rogers to Livan if you want, but the closest you’d get to having me believe that was that they both spent short stints with the Mets and Twins. They have similar pitching styles, but Rogers’ results have always been significantly better.
- The only relievers who were common between the two teams were Jamie Walker (situational lefty), Fernando Rodney (developed into a setup man by the 2006 team, though he was awful in 2003), and former Nat Wilfredo Ledezma.
- The only offensive mainstays were role players Brandon Inge (C in 2003, 3b in 2006) and Craig Monroe. Between 2003 and 2006, the Tigers went out and signed or traded for: Ivan Rodriguez, Placido Polanco, Carlos Guillen, Sean Casey (deadline pickup) and Magglio Ordonez (nearly half their starting lineup). They developed Curtis Granderson, Marcus Thames, and (for half a season) Chris Shelton.
The 2008 Rays might have been a more interesting case study here, though even three of the young pitchers that they were starting were acquisitions via trade (Edwin Jackson, Scott Kazmir, Matt Garza). Either way, it’s my belief that you have to have a little of both (homegrown talent and some money sprinkled in) as well as a little bit of luck.
Most of my point, however, is that (and this was indicative in last year’s FA market) the current state of the economy should help to make this a buyer’s market. With money coming off the books, I feel that the Nats both can (and should) take advantage of this. “Overpaying” for a guy like Harden in this current economic climate equates to paying him a little less than he would have been worth on the open market a couple of years ago. If the economy rebounds a bit in the next couple of years, those deals go from “a little rough” to “a bit of a steal.” Going uber-high ticket (such as Lackey) doesn’t make sense, as it’s lipstick on a pig. Trying to get four or five risk/reward types and hoping for two or three of them to pan out, though, could work a bit.
by bluelineswinger on Oct 28, 2009 9:18 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I dont care how much it costs
We need a genuine top of the rotation starter…I dont care if they pass the hat round at games to pay for it…it needs to happen.
Padilla walked into the Nats' clubhouse for the first time and said, "My God. I'm in heaven."
by Mezza on Oct 29, 2009 2:43 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Except for the trade-within-the division thing and the $12mil pricetag, I'd throw Willingham+ at the Braves for Javy...,
"Rosenthal believes the Braves might decide to trade one of their other veteran arms, “most likely right-hander Javier Vazquez or right-hander Derek Lowe for a hitter.”
Mezza: ''Are we there yet?'' ...Roscoe: "In baseball hell? Yes we are."
"Freakish things are happening."
by cat daddy3000 on Oct 29, 2009 8:47 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Willingham + could return Javy
Then who do we play in LF? I do not see worthwhile in house options.
"What you know is often the enemy of what you can learn" Bill James
by PhDBrian on Oct 29, 2009 6:19 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
The Amazing Willie Harris!
or Super Max!!!
Mezza: ''Are we there yet?'' ...Roscoe: "In baseball hell? Yes we are."
"Freakish things are happening."
by cat daddy3000 on Oct 29, 2009 8:13 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
that was the Giants feeling when they signed Zito
"What you know is often the enemy of what you can learn" Bill James
by PhDBrian on Oct 29, 2009 6:22 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Fair point
There isn’t any guarantees in Free Agent pitchers – although I will point out that Zito had a very decent 2009 with a 4.03ERA and his 1.35 WHIP not far off his 1.30 career.
Has he been worth the $$? probably not yet but if the Giants get into the post season next season and they make a run – Zito would be a decent asset to have.
The issue for the Nats is we need a decent stabilising top of the rotation starter…someone that will give us a chance to win every 5 days and give the team some confidence. I’d rather not overpay for that but what this team needs is that confidence (and when it has it can be a winner…when Morgan came – th confidence put us on a win streak…a good FA starter could do the same).
Padilla walked into the Nats' clubhouse for the first time and said, "My God. I'm in heaven."
by Mezza on Oct 31, 2009 7:53 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
strassburg and/or detwiler in 2011 or 2012
"What you know is often the enemy of what you can learn" Bill James
by PhDBrian on Nov 2, 2009 1:17 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Thing is this is a weak allround FA class
Polanco is one of the better guys, so he will go for more than you think.
"What you know is often the enemy of what you can learn" Bill James
by PhDBrian on Oct 29, 2009 6:19 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
We are far from having a good enough core to compete in 2010
The defense has huge holes. But, the young SPs could easily be a bunch of young Cliff Lees and/or Tom Glavines.
Lee was 30 and in his 6th season when he became an ace:
http://www.fangraphs.com/statss.aspx?playerid=1636&position=P
Glavine became an “Ace” in his 5th season:
http://www.fangraphs.com/statss.aspx?playerid=90&position=P
neither showed much before those seasons. Just some flashes here and there.
Randy Johnson was well into his 30s when he became truly dominant. Started about his 5th season, but he was solid right off the bat:
http://www.fangraphs.com/statss.aspx?playerid=60&position=P
Most of our young SPs have less then 2 seasons of work and are very young. We have to have more patience than sending all but Lannan and Detwiler back to the minors. Stammen, Martin, and Martis are all better than minor league pitchers.
"What you know is often the enemy of what you can learn" Bill James
by PhDBrian on Oct 29, 2009 6:35 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I’m not sure if I agree with your Harden assertion…guys with injury problems often sign 1 year deals with teams that they know they will get playing time with. If a guy like Harden, Bedard, Sheets, etc. signed a 1 year deal with the Nats, they would know that a) they’re only stuck here for 1 year, tops and b) they will probably be dealt to a contender at the deadline anyways. Sounds like a pretty good idea in theory.
That being said, I agree with what I think you meant, that talented players are not going to sign deals longer than one year with the Nats unless the Nats overpay by a bunch.
by thehoagster07 on Nov 2, 2009 12:31 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Brad Arnesberg
When the Jays got rid of Arnesberg, the Nats should’ve jumped all over him to come and coach the Washington Pitching Staff. Instead, the Astros snagged him up.
I think this could’ve been a substantial offseason acquisitino for the Nationals coaching staff, as Arnesberg did wonders for the Blue Jays pitchers in 2009. Damn.
by Andrew Davidson on Oct 31, 2009 10:38 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Vladdy
I know this might sound insane but Vladdy is a free agent. He does need to be a dh cuz he can’t move but if we could steal him for less than 5 million, I’ll take him.
I also think Storen will be on the opening day roster and Strasburg will be in Potomac!
Your thoughts guys??
by natsfan39 on Oct 31, 2009 3:36 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Vladdy is on the downside, but is still a very useful bat
I would take him for $10 million or less, but I doubt he would take my offer. He is a future HOFr. He likely thinks his great baseball wisdom has lots more value than his basic numbers. Someone will agree and sign him for far more than $10 million.
Storen may make the opening day roster, but I would not expect much more than an average relief pitcher out of him next season. If he stays healthy, he will dominate in 4-5 years though.
Strassburg will pitch some for the Nats next season. He will likely have bad overall numbers, but in one of his starts he will dominate and make us all drool for the future. I roughly give him 5-7 starts with an era in the 5s.
"What you know is often the enemy of what you can learn" Bill James
by PhDBrian on Nov 2, 2009 1:27 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
For the record:
I love, love, love John Lackey. There’s no way he’d sign here regardless of how much money the Nats throw at him, though.
Eric Berry for sending the guy who wins the Heisman spinning 720 degrees in the air at the podium - or for intercepting it and returning it to where it rightfully belongs
by Graysnail on Nov 1, 2009 7:15 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
You know...
im putting your first sentence in my signature block…
Padilla walked into the Nats' clubhouse for the first time and said, "My God. I'm in heaven."
by Mezza on Nov 1, 2009 7:30 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Vladdy
This year Vlad made 15 Million but he certainly didn’t deserve it. Vladdy is my favorite player out of the Nats organization but he probably won’t get 10 million in most places.
by natsfan39 on Nov 2, 2009 8:03 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
please guys
no vladimir guerrero… his isod this year was 39…. he walked 19 times in 383 Abs.
If we can avoid it, i’d really rather not have (at this point in his career) a sligtly better version of Bengie Molina on the team
by martins on Nov 3, 2009 3:12 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
He is better than Elijah Dukes
"What you know is often the enemy of what you can learn" Bill James
by PhDBrian on Nov 3, 2009 3:44 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
maybe
but we’re talking about a young guy and an old one
by martins on Nov 3, 2009 3:48 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

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