Washington Nationals vs Pittsburgh Pirates: An SB Nation Conversation.
June 30, 2009. DC GM Mike Rizzo trades a disappointing Lastings Milledge and a faltering Joel Hanrahan to Pittsburgh in return for Pirates' outfielder Nyjer Morgan and left-handed reliever Sean Burnett. December 13, 2009. The Pirates decide to non-tender right-hander Matt Capps, fearing his salary in arbitration might be more than they're willing to pay. December 24, 2009. The Washington Nationals and Capps agree on a 1-year/$3.5 million dollar deal. The Pirates and Nationals are two teams that have struggled through one rebuilding plan after another with little success on either side recently. I thought it might be interesting to get the Pirates' perspective on the players who have changed sides in the last year, so I asked Charlie Wilmoth from the SB Nation's Pirates blog, Bucs Dugout, if he'd be willing to answer a few questions about which franchise has done a better job of building their organization for the future...
Federal Baseball (FB): Do you think the Pirates should have tendered a contract to Matt Capps?
Bucs Dugout (BD): Yes. He might not have been worth $3.5 million or so to them as a player, but if he bounced back they might have gotten something nice for him in a trade.
(FB): I've read that Capps' fastball seemed to flatten out and his change was less effective last season, was that the reason, or was there another explanation for his struggles in 2009 and the Pirates' decision to non-tender him?
(BD): The Pirates' management has repeatedly emphasized the concept of "internal value" in making decisions about players, and Capps was likely to get a bit more in arbitration than the value the Pirates placed on him. Obviously, if the Pirates thought Capps would pitch like he did in 2008 or 2007, offering him a contract would be a no-brainer, and they would have a player who would be quite valuable on the trade market. So they clearly believed he wouldn't return to his previously high levels of performance. I'm not sure why they believe that, but they may well be right. Capps confused me a little this season. It wasn't a situation where he was obviously hurt; he was still throwing very hard. His changeups came in a little bit faster in 2009 than they did in 2008, and I've seen some speculation that the decreased difference in velocity between his heater and his change may have allowed hitters to time his pitches.
(FB): The Pirates are rumored to be searching for a free agent closer, if they fail to sign one do you have any faith in Joel Hanrahan based on what you saw last season?
(BD): I have no illusions of Hanrahan being Mariano Rivera, but I like him a lot and I think the Pirates did well to buy low on him--in Washington, he was getting crushed by bad luck and by the Nats' subpar defense. His stuff is ferocious and he strikes batters out, and when he came to Pittsburgh his luck immediately took a turn for the better. I'm not absolutely certain he'd be successful as a closer, but I think there's a fair amount of upside there.
(FB): There were questions about Capps' conditioning in the past, is that something he's gained control of, or is it still a concern?
(BD): You'd have to ask him. He still looks like a giant lump of Play Doh, but then he also looked that way when he was pitching well.
(FB): Capps, Nyjer Morgan and Sean Burnett vs Lastings Milledge and Joel Hanrahan, who's gotten the best of the player exchanges between Washington and Pittsburgh?
(BD): Well, I don't agree with the way the Pirates handled Capps--the odds are probably against him recovering, but given the attention "closers" get on the trade market, I think it would have been well worth a few million bucks to keep him around for a few more months in case he came back strong. So the Nationals come out ahead there.
I will, however, take Milledge and Hanrahan every day and twice on Sunday. Morgan earned some respect from me for tightening up his defense last year; previously, he was getting by purely on speed, running terrible routes and making frequent mistakes. But he still has no power at all, and those sorts of players don't maintain their value in the years when they don't hit .320. That's who he's going to be for his entire career, because there's zero chance of him ever hitting home runs. He's Willy Taveras, basically, and I really like him on a personal level, so I hope he proves me wrong. Burnett, for me, is a totally generic lefty reliever.
Milledge is exactly the sort of player a team like the Pirates should be taking chances on--relatively young and extremely talented. He's also been a model citizen since coming to Pittsburgh, hustling through meaningless games and working hard on his defense. The Nationals, if all goes well, get a couple of role players. The Pirates could get something much better than that. Given that the Pirates are playing for the future right now, that sounds good to me.
Thanks, Charlie.
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They're going to have a fun team to watch until the next dismantling...
Vivian Jaffe: "Have you ever transcended space and time?"
Albert Markovski: "Yes. No. Uh, time, not space... No, I don't know what you're talking about."
by Patrick Reddington on Dec 29, 2009 2:20 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Dismantling?
Only good thoughts to the Pirates and the wonderful city of Pittsburgh, but if you have 17 losing seasons in a row, there needs to be some “mantling” before you talk about “dismantling”.
There truly is not enough of a track record to equate the Nats with the Pirates yet. Folks too quickly default to the Senators, and that team is fading from memory.
by Positively Half St. on Dec 29, 2009 5:48 PM EST up reply actions
Don't deny the Expos...Just kidding, but I definitely think even in the five years the Nationals have been in existence...
…since they basically started from scratch as a franchise they have gone through 2 to 3 plans before settling on Rizzo and Kasten’s ground-up approach…
Vivian Jaffe: "Have you ever transcended space and time?"
Albert Markovski: "Yes. No. Uh, time, not space... No, I don't know what you're talking about."
by Patrick Reddington on Dec 29, 2009 10:14 PM EST up reply actions
in the attached picture, they all look like they are wearing black track pants.
Your voice of doom and gloom. Read more at natsnewsnetwork.blogspot.com
by Dave at District Sports Page on Dec 29, 2009 2:19 PM EST reply actions
Didn't even notice while staring at those sweet caps...
Vivian Jaffe: "Have you ever transcended space and time?"
Albert Markovski: "Yes. No. Uh, time, not space... No, I don't know what you're talking about."
by Patrick Reddington on Dec 29, 2009 2:21 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
I'm waiting to see if any DC fans see the Milledge/Morgan swap the same as Mr. Wilmoth...
Will the Morgan magic last throughout twenty-ten? Will Milledge finally turn in the .280, 25 HR, 80+ RBI guy he was thought to be originally?
Vivian Jaffe: "Have you ever transcended space and time?"
Albert Markovski: "Yes. No. Uh, time, not space... No, I don't know what you're talking about."
by Patrick Reddington on Dec 29, 2009 2:32 PM EST via mobile reply actions
Morgan "was getting by purely on speed, running terrible routes and making frequent mistakes"??
That sounds like Milledge to me….
I had the same high hopes as Mr. Wilmoth when Lastings came here from the Mets until I saw him “getting by purely on speed, running terrible routes and making frequent mistakes (at the plate, on the bases and in the field)”
I think T-Plush was a steal.
Menjar be I cagar fort/ I no tingues por de la mort!
It'll be interesting to see if the proverbial lightning Washington caught in a bottle w/ Morgan...
…sustains itself over a full season. The Milledge Pirates fans saw, in their system and when he came up is not the Milledge who played his way down to Syracuse real early into the season…the only issue I ever had with the deal was the age diiference, Milledge has a way to go before he peaks, while Morgan may be peaking as we speak…Alright I had one other issue with the deal, the Nats forced me to retire another name and # t-shirt…my Milledge #44 sits with my Wilkerson, Vidro and Livan shirts now…
Vivian Jaffe: "Have you ever transcended space and time?"
Albert Markovski: "Yes. No. Uh, time, not space... No, I don't know what you're talking about."
by Patrick Reddington on Dec 29, 2009 3:11 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
I think I want some of the magic stuff that Charlie has been smoking or drinking!
The Pirates should have Rizzo hauled in for grand larceny. But, the trades are win-win if both sides think they got the better deal.
The Pirates were playing Nyjer out of position and were, apparently, not impressed with his clubhouse upside. The impact he had on the Nats’ was major irrespective of his contributions on the field…which were many.
Remember how we all laughed when Milledge was ..predictably…“running terrible routes and making frequent mistakes” when the Nats played the Pirates after the trades? It was flight of the bumblebee and …oops…that dang ball just dropped 2 feet in front of me. How’d that happen?
Hanrahan? He doesn’t have the heart of a closer, but may give them some serviceable outs of middle relief. Sure he throws heat. It’s the consistent placement and direction that leave something…oh who am I kidding? LOTS…to be desired.
Heh. +1 for me MissB
Time will tell. But when Milledge starts moping and Hanny can’t throw strikes, I suspect there might be some changed views.
"I love, love, love John Lackey." -- Graysnail.
by Mezza on Dec 29, 2009 5:56 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Milledge, according to most people, was playing out of position in DC too...(ask Bow-den)...
And it showed, every ball hit to him was an adventure, and the effect Morgan had, where all of a sudden anything hit anywhere was a spectacular play waiting to happen can’t be underestimated….not to mention his ability to get on base and steal base after base, but when Charlie mentions below memories of Morgan sliding over bases and kind of running lose it made me worry a little that we saw him at his best and he might level out…but by all means, if T Plush wants to keep stirring things up like he did at the top of the order, I’m all for it…cause he was quickly my favorite player to watch last season…
Vivian Jaffe: "Have you ever transcended space and time?"
Albert Markovski: "Yes. No. Uh, time, not space... No, I don't know what you're talking about."
by Patrick Reddington on Dec 29, 2009 10:19 PM EST up reply actions
This is exactly the point
Milledge was playing out of position in the field and at the plate in DC. And whose fault was that? His UZR with the Mets and Pirates in left is +10; with the Nats in center it was -16. Will he be an above average player? Got me. But he was never going to be a decent center fielder or leadoff hitter.
Viva Clemente!
The point
you’re missing (at least I think you’re missing) is… the context in which the trades were made.
To state the obvious,
Nyjer Morgan is almost 30.
Milledge isn’t even 25.
At “best”, for the Nats, unless Nyjer Morgan completely changes his career trajectory on a grand scale (small % chance), he will peak for another year or two, before fading off back into uselessness.
Therefore, Morgan is only useful if the Nats somehow become contenders for a playoff spot (I would assume this is the states, understood, and hoped for goal by Washington fans) in the next three years or so. Looking at their current situation and farm system, this is improbable, boarding on impossible.
The same situation holds true for the Pirates. We are two years away at best from competing for anything meaningful. Therefore, Morgan would have been (had we kept him) just as useless to us as the Nats.
Basically, in my estimation, the Pirates traded an absolutely useless (to them) commodity, in exchange for Milledge who has 25, and has potential.. potential to help the Pirates win in a few years during his baseball peak.
Usually, this trade is a win for both teams if the team receiving the “useless” aging veteran is a contender needing his services for a year or three, but this seems to not be the case with the Nats.
THAT is why Pirates fans (Charlie, myself etc.) scratch their heads at the trade (while giggling gleefully to themselves).
I guess its interesting (not meant as an insult) how two groups of rationally minded people can hold such differing opinions.
by McCutchenIsTheTruth on Dec 30, 2009 6:32 PM EST up reply actions
I think you're underestimating Nyjer's staying power
Guys like him who are thin and fast don’t age as quickly as guys that are heavier and bigger of frame. If you look at Ichiro’s UZR, he is no worse an outfielder now than he was 6 or 7 years ago. I watched Omar Vizquel at 40 in Texas, and his UZR/150 in 32 games was 30+ at SS. Although a small sample, that’s large enough of a sample and positive rating to show you he was not bad.
So, there’s no reason to believe that Nyjer is only going to have 2 good years in the field and then go in the toilet.
Even his worst problem, which is his walk rate, is something that he can improve upon – it doesn’t require any more physical tools or skills that are going to decrease with age. In fact, it’s normal that as players get older they get better at that.
by MarkInDallas on Jan 2, 2010 12:33 PM EST up reply actions
I'll take Morgan's attitude and hunger for the game 10 X more than Milledge...
… Milledge’s work ethic will show itself to be what it is once was with us once he slumps again
and I didn’t like this at all. “Burnett, for me, is a totally generic lefty reliever.”
Come on, he’s a little better than that, but ask the real question Ed. Would you rather be a Nats fan or a Bucs fan? 100 times over I’d say I’d rather be a Nats fan. Once the wheel start moving past the Bowden truck stop we’re going see light beaming from the road up ahead. The Bucs went into the Allegheny tunnel and never came out…
On the deal. Let’s make it even. On being a Nats fan vs bucs fan. Let’s all have a moment of silence for our Buc’s friends.
Seriously? The Pirates won more games than the Nats last year and have a far better farm system. You won’t find me defending anything about the Pirates’ performance record for the past 17 years, but their front office has been making solid decisions since being hired two years ago.
by Charlie Wilmoth on Dec 29, 2009 6:52 PM EST up reply actions
Bucs fan here
Burnett: I like him a little better than Charlie, but I like Hanrahan more too. Burnett has average stuff, Hanrahan has better stuff. Can he put it together? He couldn’t in Washington- but he seemed far better in Pittsburgh.
Would you rather be a Nats fan or a Bucs fan? 100 times over I’d say I’d rather be a Nats fan.
I’d rather be a Bucs fan, but lets take your reason for picking the Nats.
Once the wheel start moving past the Bowden truck stop we’re going see light beaming from the road up ahead.
For your Bowden, we had Dave Littlefield, and the Bucs truck rolled past Littlefield’s stop 2 years ago, hence we are seeing the light beaming that you’re going to see.
The next wave of pitchers in the Nationals' system is just about to take over...
…when we start seeing that we’ll know for sure where the team stands, but a lot of scouts out there like the pitching Rizzo and Co. have piled up, Washington’s low on depth when it comes to position players which hurts the perception of the minor league ranks overall…but it’s all about pitching with the Kasten plan…
…Jordan Zimmermann getting hurt was a real blow though…
Vivian Jaffe: "Have you ever transcended space and time?"
Albert Markovski: "Yes. No. Uh, time, not space... No, I don't know what you're talking about."
by Patrick Reddington on Dec 29, 2009 10:24 PM EST up reply actions
In order for your young pitchers to have a chance
they have to have guys who can field behind them and there isn’t alot of good fielders on your team
Players who should be in the Hall of Fame
DIck Lebeau, Pat TIllman, Dwight White, Donnie Shell, L.C. Greenwood, Ray Guy, Steve Tasker, Greg Llyod, Andy Russel, Chris Carter and Kevin Greene
2009 Pittsburgh Steelers the Perefect Storm of Suck
Chris Henry 1983-2009 RIP
by WVPiratesfan on Dec 29, 2009 11:14 PM EST up reply actions
Especially when Rizzo prefers sinking-fastballers who get grounders...
The Nationals need to improve 3/4’s of their infield defensively this offseason…I guess they’re stuck with Dunn at first, and have to hope his offense offsets his D, but if Desmond and Guzman aren’t going to be a significant improvement they do need to sign someone to shore up the middle infield…
Hammer’s questionable defensively in left, but I like Morgan in center and love Dukes’ arm if not his whole defensive game…
Rizzo’s looking for that infielder…that much is for sure…
Vivian Jaffe: "Have you ever transcended space and time?"
Albert Markovski: "Yes. No. Uh, time, not space... No, I don't know what you're talking about."
by Patrick Reddington on Dec 29, 2009 11:29 PM EST up reply actions
quite
signing Marquis was a meh move… and doesnt show a lot of confidence in the youngsters… how Detwiler, Zimmermann, Stammen, Balester perform and how long Strasburg takes will be the key. Can;t say I m very familiar with scouting reports on them or on the hitters in the system, so I’ll keep an eye open.
The general perception seems to be that the farm system is pretty barren, and that there was significant mismanagement, so in that sense, its pretty similar to the Pirates, but the Pirates FO has made good moves over the last couple of years, so we are hopeful of being competitive soon…
by BurgherKing on Dec 29, 2009 11:46 PM EST up reply actions
Disagree Here
It does show confidence in the youngsters, but anyone who watches baseball for a long time knows that not every young pitcher is going to mature at the same speed, and some never do. Banking a veteran to eat up innings and take pressure off the kids to LET them develop is the right way to go, IMNSHO
The age difference is exactly what I’m getting at here. The Pirates and Nats were both dreadful teams last year, and it’s likely that neither will contend in 2010, so why did the Nats go trade someone with upside for someone who may have already peaked? That Milledge was annoying in Washington (and in New York) isn’t lost on me, but we’ve seen little of that in Pittsburgh. Picking Morgan over him seems incredibly conservative, and the Bucs are in no shape to play it safe.
I suppose a case could be made that Morgan was more valuable to the Nats simply because it’s going to take them longer than the Bucs to put together a potentially winning core (given the lack of depth in the Nats’ farm system), and that therefore it’s smart for them to have their best team on the field for a year or so while they wait for that to happen. But I’m not sure I’d buy even that.
I can’t get too excited about Morgan, who has a distinctly unimpressive minor league record. Some of the improvements he made last year were legit, but I’d be pretty concerned about him taking a big step back next year.
by Charlie Wilmoth on Dec 29, 2009 6:59 PM EST up reply actions
I think Milledge may have been humbled a bit by his demotion to Syracuse from DC this season...
…cause I followed him afterwards and the player in the minors and when he came up with Pittsburgh was more of what I expected from a former no. 1 pick, but he’s still shaky defensively…my problem with Milledge defensively is that he seemed to lack baseball instincts, (on the basepaths too sometimes, “Stop trying to seal third after taking second, Lasto…seriously.”)…A Met-fan-friend pointed out that he always took the wrong first step, and seemed to hate catching balls on the run, so he was a nightmare in center, but everyone says he’s a left fielder, which is where he’ll be in Pittsburgh as long as McCuthchen’s around…
Morgan’s value to DC last season was as a stabilising force after 4-5 years of looking for a center fielder. I’m wondering too what he’ll do next season…
Vivian Jaffe: "Have you ever transcended space and time?"
Albert Markovski: "Yes. No. Uh, time, not space... No, I don't know what you're talking about."
by Patrick Reddington on Dec 29, 2009 10:31 PM EST up reply actions
I like Milledge, but I don’t think he’s a particularly fast player. And as for Morgan, he was kind of like our version of Milledge for his first couple of seasons. (Well, with more speed, no power, and no expectations.) He routinely messed up plays in the outfield, slid past bases, and generally looked like he had never listened to a word his coaches said. I give him credit for taking a huge step forward in those areas, but then I don’t see why it’s so hard to believe Milledge has taken the same step forward.
by Charlie Wilmoth on Dec 29, 2009 7:03 PM EST up reply actions
Another Pirates fan's view of Nyjer
Unlike some, I don’t think Nyjer has necessarily peaked and is going to go downhill. First, players like him – like Ichiro – tend to age pretty well and keep most of their speed for a while. So I think it’s quite possible to get 5 or 6 years from him at near his highest level – whatever that may be.
As to what level that may be, Nyjer has a career BABIP of .360, which is indeed identical to Ichiro’s. The difference I see between Nyjer and Ichiro is that Nyjer doesn’t walk as much. That’s pretty much it, but that is something very big for your leadoff guy.
Ichiro is able to leverage his .360 BABIP into an OBP of .380 because his BB/K ratio is about .70.
Nyjer’s BB/K ratio is only .47 – and that is a huge difference because it passes from the territory where the PAs in which you don’t hit the ball are helping you into the realm where they are hurting you and pulling that OBP down.
Nyjer looked like Ichiro when he was with the Nats in 2009, except when you realize that his BABIP was an amazing .400 – 40 points above where Ichiro and Nyjer are normally able to keep their BABIP.
So, in short, Nyjer really must work on taking more walks and striking out less or else his wOBA is likely to be closer to .320 than .380.
He still will be very valuable as a defensive center fielder though, and that’s something that Milledge was never going to give you.
by MarkInDallas on Dec 29, 2009 8:43 PM EST up reply actions
The combination of a team really wanting him like the Nationals did...
…and the excitement that he created with the fanbase definitely had Morgan playing at his best if not over his head as you pretty clearly show, so hopefully he continues to excel rather than reverting to the norm…
Vivian Jaffe: "Have you ever transcended space and time?"
Albert Markovski: "Yes. No. Uh, time, not space... No, I don't know what you're talking about."
by Patrick Reddington on Dec 29, 2009 10:42 PM EST up reply actions
Milledge
I’m kind of curious about the story of Milledge and why he became so much of a train wreck in Washington (I think we understand PART of the reason for the issues in NY were his maturity and the fact NY called him up WAY too early)? Was a lot of pressure put on Milledge?
I’m just wondering why Nats fans think he can’t rebound with the Pirates or at least mature to a point where he is getting somewhere closer to his ceiling.
As for Morgan — I really can’t wait to see how he performs this year for the Nats. I really feel like he has peaked and his AVG-heavy OPS will really take a wallop this year…and if he isn’t walking (which he tends not to do), he won’t be on base to steal anything
My Milledge view
It’s a good question SpacePirate. There are numourous news articles on Lasto that might be worth a read (maybe someone here can reference them when they have time) – given that’s our only real view into what kind of person he is. But from my reading of the reports – he has consistently displayed a attitude that could be problematic in a clubhouse.
For me, it started to go downhill for Lasto last ST where he consistently ignored his outfield coaches directions. This was despite he was already told that he would be playing CF and would need to work on his defense. From there it just got worse – performance wise he was wrongly thrust into the CF job and the leadoff spot and failed miserably. Rather than work harder the reports only indicated that ‘the performances would come’. Soon, he was demoted back to AAA. But rather than take it as a wake up call I can only assume that he displayed the same type of attitude. Dukes didnt and was recalled and soon nailed down the RF job. Reports after Acta was fired also added fuel to the fire. There were reports of players who were out of line and Acta did little to pull them back in – while not mentioning Milledge by name, I think a few of us assumed as much…given only 2 of the guys were sent back down to AAA. I think Ryan Zimm also made mention of how the clubhouse was better after Dukes and Milledge were sent down.
Id like to link of of these articles – in addition to a NY article where it also was quite damning of Milledge’s attitude (but im on my way out the door). In short, unless he has a personality transplant I dont think you will ever see anything on a consistent basis from Lasto. He just doesnt exhibit the willingness to learn and get better and put the hard yards in to be a successful major leaguer. This game is littered with talented guys – but they have to have it mentally to compete…I just think we’ve seen enough evidence to suggest that the kid doesnt have it upstairs. That said, he is young and maybe he will start to get it together – but hopefully (and after reading some of the press reports) you might start to see that Nats and Mets fans saw. For Lastos sake – I hope you dont…because I dont think too many other teams will take a punt on him now.
"I love, love, love John Lackey." -- Graysnail.
Milledge
He was probably mishandled last year in Washington.
Putting an undisciplined free swinger like him in the lead off spot was a mistake.
He’s no center fielder. Balls that Nyjer Morgan would have in his hip pocket, Milledge would struggle to reach.
He just doesn’t have baseball instincts.
As I was typing this I saw the post by Mezza. We are in agreement and he says it better.
Menjar be I cagar fort/ I no tingues por de la mort!
The starting job in center for someone who was shaky defensively was definitely a lot of pressure...
Not to mention hitting at the top of the order…Milledge was forced up by a lack of outfield talent in the system and his attitude seemed to force the Nationals to give up quicker than you’d normally expect…(being late for meetings = bad)…
I’m real interested in Morgan’s performance this year, because I think a Willingham, Morgan and Dukes outfield has some real potential, (counting of course on Dukes reaching the next level and staying healthy). Patience as a leadoff hitter is a necessity of course, so he’d best get the walk total up as you mention, since any single or walk was essentially a double the way he ran under Riggleman…
Vivian Jaffe: "Have you ever transcended space and time?"
Albert Markovski: "Yes. No. Uh, time, not space... No, I don't know what you're talking about."
by Patrick Reddington on Dec 29, 2009 10:37 PM EST up reply actions
Milledge
admitted in a public forum-a fan Q&A-that he could not pick up the ball off the bat until it got above the upper deck and was silouhetted against the sky. that’s indicative of his problems.
he’s never worked hard enough at anything that his talent could shine. it will be really interesting to see if getting thrown away from the worst team in baseball was enough to finally get him determined to bring out that talent.
Your voice of doom and gloom. Read more at natsnewsnetwork.blogspot.com
by Dave at District Sports Page on Dec 29, 2009 10:15 PM EST reply actions
"... it will be really interesting to see if getting thrown away from the worst team in baseball was enough to finally get him determined..."
Just going on his #’s in the minors and the little I saw in Pittsburgh it looked like it may have woken him up…
Vivian Jaffe: "Have you ever transcended space and time?"
Albert Markovski: "Yes. No. Uh, time, not space... No, I don't know what you're talking about."
by Patrick Reddington on Dec 29, 2009 10:38 PM EST up reply actions
Interesting Takes
Being a Pirates fan and blogger, I feel the need to chime in here.
Comparing Morgan to Ichiro is a stretch, stats can easily lie. Ichiro, if he wanted, could hit for power. He has tremendous bat control. Morgan on the other hand is a slap hitter who relies on his speed to get on base. Washington could have a huge asset in him IF he learns how to run the bases and take a walk. The sheer amount of times he gets picked off or overslides second will definitely frustrate any Nationals fan in the upcoming season.
I, unlike many Pirates fans, always liked Burnett. He has a nice assortment of pitches and excellent control of most. The key with Burnett has been and always will be health. If he stays healthy he can be much more than a LOOGY, but his ceiling is not much more than a setup man at this point. He has yet to prove he can get out right handed batters on a consisten basis, one of the reasons he failed as a starter for the Pirates.
Capps will be another player that will frustrate National fans. He has said his issue in 2009 was nothing more than losing confidence in his stuff. While he rarely walks batters, he has great control when he is on, he is not a shutdown closer. He does not strike out many, not a true power arm. He relies on good defense behind him to get his outs. My personal opinion on his problems in 2009 were more due to balls finding holes than anything else.
As for the Pirates return, I like Hanrahan. He has all the tools, if he can put them together he could be a very good setup man or possibly a closer. Power arms in the bullpen can only be an asset for a team like the Pirates who have finess pitchers in their rotation.
Milledge I am still not sold on. Time will tell if he has matured, but I think there was more to the story than what has been revealed for his demotion last year with Washington. He was on the cover of the Nats press guide for 2009, he seemed to be one of the faces of the teams future. I really am interested in knowing what changed that so suddenly. Was it too much pressure too fast for him? If so, that does not speak volumes of his mental toughness. The one thing he adds to the Pirates is more young talent with potential. The Pirates have some nice talent on the horizon in Jose Tabata, Gorky Hernandez, Brad Lincoln and Pedro Alvarez, so the need for Milledge to be the face of the tyeam is not there, which may help him in the long run.
All in all, I think both teams just added more questions to their rosters than answers.
http://bucstradewinds.blogspot.com/
On Milledge
The Nats started 09 with the kind of skid that gets a manager fired, which it eventually did. Acta got dinged for being too player friendly, and sending down two young players who allegedly didn’t know their place was a convenient step. Not like the Nats improved terribly without Milledge or Dukes (or even with Dukes later).
by chicos_pants on Dec 30, 2009 11:50 AM EST up reply actions
Actually ...
The Nats did improve without Milledge.
Note to self...
If you want people from Pittsburgh or a Bucs fan in general to visit any blog just mention their team in any way. You should have known this already from all the Penguin vs Caps responses on almost any hockey blog on the net. (blahblahblah Ovi’s a bully and Cindy…ah I mean Sydney is a cry baby blahblahblah….)
Remember these things for the future and never say your team is better than their team unless your team is the Yankees or Red Sox or something like that… Further note we must one day try to understand the psyche of the average man or woman in Pittsburgh. What is it about this town that causes people to lose they s—- if someone talks negatively about them. It’s very interesting…
nice try
but Charlie has a lot of Pirate fans who read his blog regularly, and this invite was at the request of Federal Baseball, so you should expect Pirate fans to chime in.
by chicos_pants on Dec 30, 2009 11:51 AM EST up reply actions
Trust me — the Nats and their fans are of no real interest to me. As a DC resident I’m more interested in discussing the public stadium funding than anything baseball related, but that’s an entirely separate issue.
Trust me… you haven’t and generally won’t be hearing from me on this blog on anything baseball related unless it’s solicited or directly related to Bucsdugout, as it was in this case. I get no comfort in being only the 28th or 29th best in baseball, as I’m sure you don’t either (thank GOD for KC, right?).
by chicos_pants on Dec 30, 2009 1:12 PM EST up reply actions
Who here
“[lost] their s—-?”
I missed it.
I will admit I’m biased (being a Pittsburgh fan) but I’ve never really understood the “Cindy crybaby” thing. Crosby works his tail off, rarely complains, defers to his teammates before himself (on the ice and in the media), and conducts himself with class.
Honestly, (possibly being biased again) the NHL is extremely lucky someone like him came along when he did to be the face of the league. I can’t even imagine the shambles the NHL would be in without him… and for that matter…
Ovechkin, He’s a great talent and the perfect complement to Crosby with his brash and loud style. The Caps-Pens series was a God-send for the NHL, especially since it went 7 games.
My point is, if you’re truly a Caps fan, then part of you has to love.. well at least admire and respect Crosby (and Ovechkin) for making Hockey, and thus the Caps, relevant again.
by McCutchenIsTheTruth on Dec 30, 2009 6:17 PM EST up reply actions
Added note
While I did throw in a few (playful?) jabs, the question sandwiched in the middle (hate of “Cindy”) is a honest question borne out of curiosity.
by McCutchenIsTheTruth on Dec 30, 2009 6:20 PM EST up reply actions
Don't tell my fellow DC fans, BUT....
Just kidding they already know this, I’ve been a Penguins fan since 1984, and almost gave up before Sidney came along…he’s every bit the franchise player, (if a little boring), and any team in hockey would be lucky to have him…
Vivian Jaffe: "Have you ever transcended space and time?"
Albert Markovski: "Yes. No. Uh, time, not space... No, I don't know what you're talking about."
by Patrick Reddington on Dec 30, 2009 6:49 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
As a long time Caps fan I'll admit Sidney's a great player,
He’s one of greatest puck handlers ever, he sees the ice better than most in the NHL, but when it comes to Ovi he’s always making some odd comments here or there about Ovi playing hard and dirty. He comes off whiny. Hey, look you’re right about one thing the two of them are the best thing ever for the game. I look forward to many game between the two and knowing the farm systems for both teams it’s only going to get better in time. In five years when both are in their prime…holy crap I can’t wait. Lakers needed the Celtics, the Yankees need the Red Sox and in the NHL we’ve got the Pens and Caps…and the Sharks, Blackhawks, Devils what a year for hockey…
I'll Say This as a Nats Fan
PNC Park is pretty sweet. I went there a couple of years ago for a twi/night doubleheader against the Padres. With the sunset lighting up the skyline gold, it was breathtaking. Of course, it was also remarkable that I could walk up to a game and get seats 15 rows behind the dugout.
I definitely expected and welcome the Pirates fan's perspective....
…that’s why I asked.
Vivian Jaffe: "Have you ever transcended space and time?"
Albert Markovski: "Yes. No. Uh, time, not space... No, I don't know what you're talking about."
by Patrick Reddington on Dec 30, 2009 12:26 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
What I find funny is that fans of all teams (not just the Pirates) around baseball...
…are constantly surprised that fans in DC have any hope left, nonetheless enthusiasm about the team’s future…
I mean they have back-to-back 100 loss seasons and DC lost it’s top prospect to elbow surgery, but Strasburg! Strasburg! Strasburg!!!
Vivian Jaffe: "Have you ever transcended space and time?"
Albert Markovski: "Yes. No. Uh, time, not space... No, I don't know what you're talking about."
by Patrick Reddington on Dec 30, 2009 12:30 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
And that's "its" as in the possessive regardless of how my iPhone tries to replace it with the contraction "it's"...
Vivian Jaffe: "Have you ever transcended space and time?"
Albert Markovski: "Yes. No. Uh, time, not space... No, I don't know what you're talking about."
by Patrick Reddington on Dec 30, 2009 12:32 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
I don't think it's hope
Some Pirate fans have been waiting for Huntington’s approach for years and have been frustrated beyond belief. Wouldn’t you if the Nats passed on Strassburg for Danny Moskos… replace “Strassburg” with “Wieters” and you start to get a sense of our frustration.
There is a sizeable contingent of Pirate faithfull with ZERO hope in the current ownership and front office. Sound familiar Redskins fans?
by chicos_pants on Dec 30, 2009 1:15 PM EST up reply actions
A question for all Nats fans....
Are the Nats better off than the Pirates? Their farm looks alot better and their major league position players while young are pretty stout. Pitching, yea, we’ve got better upside there but position player wise. Darn we look so thin compared to the Bucs. It’ll be nice in the future to make continued comparison between these two teams.
For the time being both teams are going to stink...
It’s like comparing rotten apples to rotten oranges…
Vivian Jaffe: "Have you ever transcended space and time?"
Albert Markovski: "Yes. No. Uh, time, not space... No, I don't know what you're talking about."
by Patrick Reddington on Dec 30, 2009 12:34 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Still it's a good comparison..
..until the day when the Pirates have to re-sign their players. I think, within reason, the Lerner’s will be more likely to re-sign players. The Lerner’s do have the $$$. We’ve got that at least. I think that’s the reason we have so much hope. Build it and they will come. That’s DC.
So where have they been?
The Lerners haven’t ponied up and the fans haven’t come. The Lerners have the same questionable record of spending as Nutting, who has deeper pockets than many realize and an equally big reputation for being careful not to spend it.
I did enjoy ‘Opera in the Outfield’ — that was the biggest turnout “Taxation Without Representation Stadium” saw all year.
by chicos_pants on Dec 30, 2009 1:19 PM EST up reply actions
they ponied up for Zimmerman.
on top of that, the Nats have been good (too good, if you ask me) resigning their own players when it came time. in fact, we’re just now seeing the bad “reward” contracts of Austin Kearns, Dmitri Young and Ronnie Belliard come off the books.
the last two off-seasons, the Nats have been quite actie on the free agent market as well, last year landing Dunn and being heavily involved inthe Teixeira talks, this year with Pudge, Marquis, Capps, etc.
i don’t think it’s money at the big league level that’s kept the Nats down, more so the compete destruction of the farm system while the team was owned by MLB, then the utter stupidity of Jim Bowden steering the franchise for four years following the sale.
jeez, could they have had a worse guy running the ship at the most important moment?
at least Rizzo has a discernable plan and is sticking to it.
Your voice of doom and gloom. Read more at natsnewsnetwork.blogspot.com
by Dave at District Sports Page on Dec 30, 2009 2:26 PM EST up reply actions
Dave, I didn't respond because I've realized (to late) that...
…no matter what the Nats do from here on out people our going to think they’re the worst in baseball and why not, they’re the worst in baseball. The good news is they can only go up from here.
Agreed on the quality, but ...
I’d argue the Pirates have finally learned to mulch their rotten fruit in order to grow better stuff, not buy more of questionable freshness. Not sure the Nats have learned that lesson yet.
by chicos_pants on Dec 30, 2009 1:26 PM EST up reply actions
We'll See
My first response was to note my opinion that the Nats mulched some rotten fruit (Milledge) to get a bit better. Milledge has been the ultimate coach-killing tease – million dollar ability, 10 cent focus.
But all the other posts are basically correct – you can make arguments for both sides of the trade, and we’ll just see what happens. The one thing that I would trade with the Pirates in a heartbeat (besides the stadium – I like Nats Park, but PNC is one of my favorite ballyards) is the DIVISION. We have the Phillies, Mets (they suck, but they have deep pockets) and the Braves. Ouch.
It's not what you gave up, but what you got in return
It’s fairly obvious from what everyone is saying that Milledge had worn out his welcome, and that the wake up calls he was given in DC didn’t register. The big question for me (as a Pirates fan) was why would you would acquire a player approaching 30 with limited upside?
I think a better move would have been to acquire a prospect with higher upside, or someone else’s version of Milledge.
Aside from that, I really hope that Nyjer continues to thrive with the Nats. As frustrating as he could be to watch sometimes his attitude was always tremendous, and I’ll continue to cheer for him. Plus, the best trades are ones where both sides feel they got the better deal. There’s nothing that says that for a trade to be good for one team it has to be bad for the other.
Division
Replace Phillies with Cardinals (possibly the best run team in baseball) and replace the Mets with the Cubs, they suck but have deep pockets. Unfortunately the central does not have an answer for the Braves…
I’d still take the Central to be in, just so I would not have to watch the Mets 18 times a year.
http://bucstradewinds.blogspot.com/
The Brave's equivalent in the Central in years past would have been the Reds...
but it’s been a long time since the days of the Red machine….

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