OK, is the Nats pitching horrendous or what?!?!?
Yesterday, trying hard to be not too pessimistic, I said the Nats had noooo
pitching at all with the present staff. Was I right or what? Folks, this is getting real ugly.
When will the club house fights start? When will Manny lose his cool?
I would if I had a bunch of totally dead arms as my pitching staff. The problem is that the Nats do have a decent batting lineup. So what if they can't field. We will just have to play offense. The trouble is that eventually bad pitching in some strange way kills a hitting teams morale in some mystifying way.
God, the Nats picthing is awlful.Starting pitcher Cabrara, who called top 90. Then look at Rivera who comes in the 6th with a tie, and promptly hits two batters in a row and then gives up back to back homers. Ouch!
Lord, please send rain tomorrow!
wxguy
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30 comments
Comments
Do not blame Sa-oool the guy has played in nearly every game this season
He and the rest of the Pen are waaaay over exposed. Our deepest start has been just a hair over 5 innings. Most have been 3-4 innings. We seem to use the entire pen every night. Its awful.
"What you know is often the enemy of what you can learn" Bill James
by PhDBrian on Apr 13, 2009 6:20 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I have seen few teams need a complete game start as badly as this one!
"What you know is often the enemy of what you can learn" Bill James
by PhDBrian on Apr 13, 2009 6:21 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
We sort of deserve it
Chacin and Hill were both part of our spring staff and they are in other teams rotations right now. Hill, in fact, won for the Padres with a very good start the other day. Both are as good or better than what we got. We cut them not because of performance but because we did not trust them to stay healthy. Which is just another way of saying “money”.
O Perez refused our below market offer. He was so offended he decided he would rather take the season off than play for a cut rate minor league deal after he was our opening day pitcher last season. He is no allstar but he is better then what we have in the rotation right now.
So rather than go for depth of pitching and gamble a bit on injury rebounds, we cut useful non all star pitchers over money and are running with youngsters and a cheap veteran on his last chance.
My guess is the organization is playing everything cheap to save up for Strassburg.
"What you know is often the enemy of what you can learn" Bill James
by PhDBrian on Apr 13, 2009 6:33 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
This one's on Manny's head...... Why carry three lefties for this very situation, and then just put in Saul because he's your 7th inning guy...
http://voices.washingtonpost.com/nationalsjournal/2009/04/eighth_inning_phils_9_nats_6.html#comments
by cat daddy3000 on Apr 13, 2009 6:35 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Manny overuses the bullpen
Manny goes to the bullpen too soon. He did the same thing last year, time and time again. The 2008 Nats were not a playoff team so why not let some of the young pitchers try to figure out how to escape from jams? Yeah, some of the games can get ugly but at least the team will find out who really will be a part of the team’s long-term future.
I agree that releasing Hill was a dumb move. They weren’t paying him that much, at least in baseball terms. What was his salary, somewhere around $700,000? It was not a big risk to keep Hill around, even if he did get injured later on. He could have kept one of the starting spots warm while one of the young guys got more seasoning in the minors. It would have been much better for Martis or Zimmermann to come up in midsummer.
At this point, Lannan is really a no. 4 or no. 5 pitcher, but with the potential to be a no. 2 or no. 3. Olsen is a no. 4 or no. 5 starter. The same with Cabrera. Martis would probably be in the minors with most other organizations. There is no real no. 1, no. 2 or no. 3 starter on this team. Hill and Perez would have been nice to have. Not spectacular but steady and OK.
I think Lannan will figure it out. Who knows about Martis or Zimmermann? They are both so young to be starters. Olsen will be mediocre at best. Cabrera could be mediocre or he could be horrendous. Odds are that two rookies will not become aces this year. Can they at least be decent? That’s questionable. Maybe they’ll be good in 2010 or 2011, but I hope I’m wrong about this.
The pitching problem is the fault of the GMs, Bowden and Rizzo, and Acta, to the extent that he is involved with roster decisions. Everything depends on the quick development of Lannan, Martis and Zimmermann. A very risky strategy.
by Potomac Fan on Apr 13, 2009 11:04 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Cabrera had pitched 94 pitches. Is that to early?
"What you know is often the enemy of what you can learn" Bill James
by PhDBrian on Apr 14, 2009 12:03 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Not today, but...
in 2008, Manny pulled his starter way too early dozens of times. I didn’t see today’s game so I wasn’t referring to that game specifically.
by Potomac Fan on Apr 14, 2009 12:25 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
manny's
first season with the Nats, he made more bullpen changes than any other manager in the history of baseball.
Cardwash Definition: Birds on the Nat.
OHHH YEAHHHH!!!!!!!
by cardwash on Apr 18, 2009 10:14 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think:
Lannan has #2 starter stuff. But, he wont blossum into a #2 if we put #1 pressure on him while he is young and impressionable. #1s face Santana. #2s face Oliver Perez or John Maine. Big difference there. To much pressure, and he will flame out for a few years then show up at age 28 on a minor league deal and win 15 for someone else. But that has not happened yet, so maybe he will be fine in the end.
Jordan Zimmerman has #1 stuff, but not the confidence. He went to a lessor baseball college. Has little professional experience. Iti s just to early to bring him up! Give him a few years of dominating in the minors (till he thinks he is slighted for not pitching in the majors), and then he is a number #1 starter. Bring him up to early and… see Lannan above.
I think Martis has converted to bullpen written all over his arm. But, he could dominate in a relief role, I think he has the head to close, just not the control to start.
Cabrera was and is a worthwhile gamble except that our defense is so bad the experiment will probably fail. If cabrera had an outstanding defence behind him, then he could just relax and pitch, but now he has to worry abit about not letting the ball be hit to left center, or up the middle to second once guys get on base. He lacks confidence because the orioles rushed him to the majors a few years ago when he was not ready, and he has been lit up for to long to have any confidence. But, the speed is usually there, so if he had the ideal situation (ie defense, large stadium, and #4 or #5 rotation spot), then he could find what got him rushed to the majors in the first place. But, you do not take a low confidence guy and put the Big Donkeys glove behind him and expect success.
Olson is a solid starter who will give us 180 innings with a mid 4s era. He has started fairly slow in the past. I am not worried about him yet. But, he is not capable of being any kind of savior to the staff. He is capable of as many blow outs as quality starts, but half the pitcvhers in the league fit that profile. He neither helps nor hurts us and is cheap. I think he should have gotten opening day.
That is what I think
"What you know is often the enemy of what you can learn" Bill James
by PhDBrian on Apr 13, 2009 11:59 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Pitching?
It’s more like long toss. Someone from the outfield is going to get traded for an arm. Is it too unrealistic to imagine trading Kearns AND Milledge for an arm? I’m not sure what contractual problems would arise, but isn’t this a viable option? You’d still have Dunn, Dukes & Willingham to field and hit.
" WHEN'S THE LAST TIME YOU'VE WITNESSED A GRAND HANDSHAKE PARADE? "
by LOUtheMETandNATSfan on Apr 14, 2009 12:01 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Kearns' contract is a problem
It was a good idea to start Kearns for a couple games at the start of the season, to see if he could impress other teams. It was worth a shot. I don’t know who would want to trade for Kearns unless he shows much more than he has. Isn’t he making something like $9 or $10 million this year? Not even the Yankees would be crazy enough to pick up his salary for a .217 or .250 hitter, or whatever he’s going to hit in 2009.
Milledge might have been more appealing for a potential trade partner but he has struggled badly and now he’s back in the minors. The Nats won’t be getting an impact pitcher for him, unless San Diego gets desperate to unload Jake Peavy at some point.
by Potomac Fan on Apr 14, 2009 9:01 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Pitching isn't great but it's not the biggest problem.
Fielding has been atrocious. I’d work on the fundamentals first.
I want to thank the good Lord for making me a Philip Rivers fan.
by Sam (sdsuaztec4) on Apr 14, 2009 5:06 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I've said it before and Ill say it again - Vet
We needed a veteran starter from the start – and Hill/Perez where not the answer (sorry, buts that’s just how I feel). The Nats badly needed someone to pitch 7 innings every 5 days and give good quality starts… and teach the young kids how to win. I dont know how much those guys cost (im not talking Santana money), but it should have been the priority off the offseason rather than a lefty power bat that couldn’t field a hard hit ball if it tied to his glove with a string.
There is an old basketball saying im quite fond of:
“Offsense sells tickets, defence wins games”.
We should have went for a good veteran starter, and some good defensive players this offseason instead of the power bat. Bowden always liked the big hitters – but its a gamble that didnt pay off.
"Baseball is like church. Many attend; few understand."
by Mezza on Apr 14, 2009 9:21 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Here, here...
Do a quick search for Adam Dunn on the in this site’s search engine and you’ll see I preached against signing him all winter…and he’s worse defensively than I thought…it started with the WBC gaffes at first and hasn’t stopped…(But he hits such big impressive HR’s!!) I know, I know…
Vivian Jaffe: "Have you ever transcended space and time?"
Albert Markovski: "Yes. No. Uh, time, not space... No, I don't know what you're talking about."
by Ed Chigliak on Apr 14, 2009 10:04 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Sorry I was a late starter here
Otherwise I would have backed you up… I actually do think signing him was good business IF they trade him. AL teams in particular get obsessed with power bats later in the year and many look for that ‘missing’ piece of the puzzle.
Pray (and im not religous) that he stays healthy and hits good numbers – come July we could get a decent deal out of it. Frankly, I see no point in keeping players like Dunn when we have so much work to do to get the team up to scratch.
At the risk of getting virtually stoned to death – I’d probably add Johnson, Guzman and Kearns to that trade list too. We desperately need two outstanding middle infielders and a CF. Even baseball mogul tells you have to be strong defensively up the middle…!
"Baseball is like church. Many attend; few understand."
by Mezza on Apr 14, 2009 10:15 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
"Offense sells tickets..."
I saw an article on Hardball Times a while back where the author was attempting one of those “how much are players worth” statistical experiments. He was trying to match a team’s income to its performance so he could back out how much each player contributed, then compute their “worth” to the franchise and see who was a steal and who wasn’t. As I recall, it turned out that runs scored correlated with franchise income more strongly than wins. Of course, teams that score a lot of runs usually win a lot of games, but teams than won games with low scores didn’t make as much money as teams that won games with high scores. Fans buy tickets to see winners, but they want to see the long ball even more. On the other hand, we buy tickets to see “teenage Screech.”
"We’re all neighbors in NatsTown™!" --NNN
by Doghouse on Apr 14, 2009 10:23 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
And selling tickets was the priority and establishing the franchise this offseason......
Getting a big bat was the choice. They tried with Teixeira and settled for Dunn. Who else was there that wasn’t an even bigger gamble? They couldn’t afford another year without doing something or risk seeing Marlins’ numbers in the seats.
And where were these great veteran pitchers that everyone wants, that every team wants?
[this was not directed specifically at you Doghouse]
by cat daddy3000 on Apr 14, 2009 11:23 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Pedro's still unsigned, just sayin'...
Vivian Jaffe: "Have you ever transcended space and time?"
Albert Markovski: "Yes. No. Uh, time, not space... No, I don't know what you're talking about."
by Ed Chigliak on Apr 14, 2009 11:25 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
There is a school of thought that you can sell some seats in the short term by bringing in some novelty acts....
Throw in Bonds and Sosa and what have you and have a sports reporter field day
by cat daddy3000 on Apr 15, 2009 10:43 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Please no...
Vivian Jaffe: "Have you ever transcended space and time?"
Albert Markovski: "Yes. No. Uh, time, not space... No, I don't know what you're talking about."
by Ed Chigliak on Apr 15, 2009 10:57 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Bond still available for league minimum?
He can boost Dunn’s self-esteem about his fielding.
"We’re all neighbors in NatsTown™!" --NNN
by Doghouse on Apr 15, 2009 2:25 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ah-hah-hah-hah...that's pretty funny...
Dunn’s totally confident though, what does he need to work on…
Vivian Jaffe: "Have you ever transcended space and time?"
Albert Markovski: "Yes. No. Uh, time, not space... No, I don't know what you're talking about."
by Ed Chigliak on Apr 15, 2009 3:17 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
"And where were these great veteran pitchers that everyone wants, that every team wants?"
I have no problem with Dunn as a signing as we needed an offseive hit (Teixeira would have been ideal) – just that a veteran starter might have settled the rest of the staff, taken pressure of the defense to make perfect plays, etc. The front office claimed it was a priority – but it seemed to drift off their ‘to do’ list.
You asked where they were? At the start of the free agency market there were plenty of very good options that (to my and everyone elses knowledge) the Nats didnt even try to pursue (or bowed out because of penny pinching). If they had attacked the list below with the same vigour as Tex, who knows where we would be?
For starters there was:
Burnett
Garland
Colon
Glavine
Smoltz
Hampton
Livan Hernandez (who probably would have signed)
Randy Johnson
Lowe
… the list goes on. None will probably be 25 game winning machines but the investment could have been made for 1 year deals (with the exception of Burnett and Lowe) they could have been cheap investments. Pedro is another, other mention Hill. I dont mind playing the kids (and Im counting the days down to Zimmerman), but I cant believe you dont give them an example on the field.
"Baseball is like church. Many attend; few understand."
by Mezza on Apr 15, 2009 8:19 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Even if any of those guys were willing, it's all a gamble.
I believe they’ve tried the overpriced FAs on the downside of their careers and lightning did not meet bottle. Is a veteran presence valuable if they are on the DL or blocking a resentful kid from playing?
Burnett- $82.5 million with a long history of injuries.
Glavine- may retire on the DL
Colon? off-season elbow surgery….
…etc.
by cat daddy3000 on Apr 15, 2009 11:03 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Interesting analysis
I guess I must be from Mars. I would rather pay good money to see my low scoring team win the ball game as opposed to seeing my team score 8 runs and lose 9-8. To wit, Nationals home opener.
Pitching wins playoff games and championships every year. Scoring runs are going to come regardless. The statistic known as batting average bears this out. BA throughout the league hovers at .300 to a lesser number every year, does it not? If so, what this means is that pitchers and good defense have more control and impact on the game than batters do. If that’s the case, give me good pitching to dominate other teams and the hitting is going to do its job.
I would think a team with dominant pitching (SP and Relief) can always put its team in position to win provided a few good bats can produce just a few runs.
My two cents.
" WHEN'S THE LAST TIME YOU'VE WITNESSED A GRAND HANDSHAKE PARADE? "
by LOUtheMETandNATSfan on Apr 15, 2009 6:01 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Johnson, Guzman, Kearns...sadly...I kind of agree, but later in the season...when other teams are desperate...
But until such a time, DO NOT TRADE NICK JOHNSON…
Vivian Jaffe: "Have you ever transcended space and time?"
Albert Markovski: "Yes. No. Uh, time, not space... No, I don't know what you're talking about."
by Ed Chigliak on Apr 14, 2009 10:49 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Its not something im looking forward to...
No one wants to see their best players traded – but letting them go for nothing in return is painful (would any get compensatory draft picks?)
"Baseball is like church. Many attend; few understand."
by Mezza on Apr 15, 2009 8:20 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
A good outing from Martis
Martis finally showed why the organization is so high on him, shutting down the Phillies on Thursday night. While it’s still just one game, it shows that maybe the young guys can get it together. He’ll still probably have his ups and downs but at least we now know that he is capable of pitching well against top Major League talent.
by Potomac Fan on Apr 16, 2009 11:26 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Pathetic Pitching and a cheap skate for an owner.
Well just watched Hanaran, or whatever his name is, blow yet another save.
This guy couldn’t close last year. Did he marry Lerner’s daughter? I sit and watch
as the Marlins staff, almost to a man, throws 90 plus, and I watch the Nats with virtually nobody who break 90. Oh yes, Hanahran throws 90, as straight as an arrow. Great batting pitcher. Bad pitching takes the wind out of a good hitting team.
So what is the problem folks? Fielding, pitching, the manager, the coaches,hitting?
Fielding is a problem because we can’t seem to field the same team more than 2 games in a row. It’s certainly not Manny Acta, he knows the game,period, and so do the coaches for that manner.
It’s the pitching folks! A coach told once that pitching is probably 60-70% of the game.
You will win once and while with good pitching with scores like 1-0, 2-1, 3-2, etc., but not more than 5. The Nats must go 7 runs every game to win with this pitching staff.
The ultimate problem is the ownership! Let no one kid one’s self. Someone suggested
trading Kearns beacuse he makes $ 9mil. The top pitchers in the league are getting much more than $9 mil. By the way who’s the highest paid person in MLB? A pitcher.
Someone earlier mentioned a list of names of pitchers available before the season started. Yes, some were time worn , former star pitchers, but would still be able to win a few. Some say Manny is using the bull pen too much. Are you kidding? With a starting staff like the Nats, any team would wear out its relief staff, but the problem is not just the lack of starters, but a crew of minor league relievers, and no closer.
Friends, you know as well as I that the deep, systemic problem (like the term they use when discussiing the economy ) is the ownership. As I have said before, the penny pinching Lerner’s are the real, unfortunate root of the problem. Unfortunately, the damage has been done, and no player with any talent will play with this team, now or the future. The new player scouting system also sucks big time. I would bet the Lerner’s are penny pinching there too,
So now we wait for the Messiah to come in the form of Strasburg. Wanna bet he won’t sign with the Nats either. No friends the only saving grace we have is if the Lerner’s decide to sell to someone who is willing to spend and invest in a good team. Someone like Angelo in Baltimore. Did I say that?
Make me a believer,
Wxguy
by wxguy on Apr 18, 2009 4:30 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

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