Washington Nationals Fire Pitching Coach Randy St. Claire
by Dave at Nats News Network on Jun 2, 2009 2:44 PM EDT
40 comments
Though no press release has been issued by the team at this point (--ed. now it has at 3:02 pm), pitching coach Randy St. Claire was relieved of his duties Monday night, according to Nats Journal.
St. Claire was the longest-tenured Nationals coach, reaching back to its days as the Montreal Expos.
That's life," St. Claire told Nats Journal. "I've been in this game for 31 years. I've been fired before. But it's a tough one... I would have liked to be around when the organization takes off."
"The pitching isn't performing up to where it needs to be to win, and I think a lot of factors go into it, but I guess I'm easier to replace than 12 guys," he said. "Easier to replace and cheaper to replace. But that's the game. When the team doesn't perform, they're bound to make changes."
The thing is, the Nats did change most of the pitching staff over the last two months. And they've had a parade of pitchers in here the last three years. Other than Odalis Perez, can anyone remember any of them exceeding expectations?
I don't want to be (overly) critical of a guy that was just shown the door, since I've been defending the manager all season as not having the right parts to be fairly judged. St. Claire clearly had the reputation as a good pitching coach.
It's just tough to justify his reputation based on the past three seasons, as the staff has progressively gotten worse, to the point te bullpen is now: full of re-tread veterans because the kids that management hoped would be ready to be big leaguers turned out to be the "not ready for prime time players".
Syracuse pitching coach Steve McCatty replaces St. Claire. Hard to envision for how long though.
One has to wonder how much time this buys Manny Acta. Is it the homestand? All-star break? Or do they just let him twist all summer as a lame duck and wipe the slate clean on Labor Day?
I'll continue to defend Acta, because I think he's going to be a good manager, once he has a complete team to field, and not a "beer league softball team", as resident expert Rob Dibble said the other day.
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I don't like this move at all
but Cuse seems to be pitching well so maybe this guy can bring something to the table
From Richmond to the District
by pas493 on Jun 2, 2009 2:53 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Eckstein came from 'Cuse too, didn't he?
And Eckstein is TEH JEENYUS!
"We are all jinxers in NatsTown™." --cat daddy3000
by Doghouse on Jun 2, 2009 3:33 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
i never understood...
how The Saint survived the off-season coaching purge to begin with. it’s almost as if they expected bad things and wanted to leave a built-in scapegoat to give Acta some padding. i joke, but i think you get my gist.
frankly, what’s happened this season isn’t St. Claire’s fault, per se, but they did change the players (twice) this season, to no avail.
Your voice of doom and gloom. Read more at natsnewsnetwork.blogspot.com
by Dave at Nats News Network on Jun 2, 2009 3:00 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
i dont think Acta is gonna last too long
if the coaching change has begun, then im sure he will be the next one to go…i think we really need someone like Lou Pinella to kick some fire into this team…hell i’d even take Bill Cowher :)
by Fear_Redskins on Jun 2, 2009 3:03 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
as long as it's neither Ray Knight or Rob Dibble...
Your voice of doom and gloom. Read more at natsnewsnetwork.blogspot.com
by Dave at Nats News Network on Jun 2, 2009 3:06 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Don't hate me, but I like Riggleman. Local Maryland guy. Knows how to play the game.
by ROSCOEtheNATSfan on Jun 2, 2009 3:22 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Riggleman would be the logical choice
but his track record isn’t all that special either.
Your voice of doom and gloom. Read more at natsnewsnetwork.blogspot.com
by Dave at Nats News Network on Jun 2, 2009 3:34 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Being a good manager is like tipping over a coke machine...
…try rocking it a few times and eventually it will go over.
Seinfeld again.
by ROSCOEtheNATSfan on Jun 2, 2009 3:50 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Brian @ NFA his header --> "Saint" Elsewhere
Props to Brian that almost made my lunch come up I laughed so hard…
by Berndaddy on Jun 2, 2009 3:21 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
BTW I don't know if I like or hate this move
I think Randy was good at working on mechanics but not so good at working on a game plan for his pitchers…
by Berndaddy on Jun 2, 2009 3:24 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I too am unsure about this move, but I’ld rather a good game planning pitching coach then one who is good at working on mechanics.
by superjuan on Jun 2, 2009 3:31 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
in the major leagues, you shouldn't have to settle...
Your voice of doom and gloom. Read more at natsnewsnetwork.blogspot.com
by Dave at Nats News Network on Jun 2, 2009 3:42 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Note to new pitching coach:
Tell Hanny no more sliders, trust me it’ll help you keep the new gig!!!
Vivian Jaffe: "Have you ever transcended space and time?"
Albert Markovski: "Yes. No. Uh, time, not space... No, I don't know what you're talking about."
by Ed Chigliak on Jun 2, 2009 3:28 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Hanny misunderstood what an out pitch is, it isn't a pitch that you throw until you run out of them..
Tip your waiters and try the veal…
by Berndaddy on Jun 2, 2009 4:06 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Acta's not getting fired
He’s in the last year of his contract, IIRC. The Lerners are too cheap to bother promoting someone else to finish out the season, since I’m sure they’re on the hook for Acta’s salary no matter what.
We’ve gotten progressively worse every year in DC, and we’re on the same pace, through 49 games, as the ’62 Mets… WHY does ANYONE in the organization still have a job?
That’s why I’ll be there tonight, as a former season ticket holder, wearing my Giants cap.
by vanatsfan on Jun 2, 2009 3:36 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
-1 on the SF cap, agree with the rest...
…can’t wait to watch Lincecum!
Vivian Jaffe: "Have you ever transcended space and time?"
Albert Markovski: "Yes. No. Uh, time, not space... No, I don't know what you're talking about."
by Ed Chigliak on Jun 2, 2009 3:44 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Personnel...Dukes activated...Wells to the DL with a right adductor strain
by ROSCOEtheNATSfan on Jun 2, 2009 3:57 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Is the adductor strain leggit do you think???
by Berndaddy on Jun 2, 2009 4:08 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
heck no
Your voice of doom and gloom. Read more at natsnewsnetwork.blogspot.com
by Dave at Nats News Network on Jun 2, 2009 4:42 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Red Sox nation is all ready talking about replaying Big Papi with.....
ADAM DUNN ! Can you imagine this? Do they have SS prospects? I’m looking…
by Berndaddy on Jun 2, 2009 4:15 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
So I can think of a couple of pitchers that exceeded expectations while they had St. Claire coaching them.
Tim Redding, Shawn Hill, John Patterson (2005 version), Jon Rauch – heck, I’d even say Lannan’s exceeded expectations so far. Of those guys, one got traded for Emilio Bonafacio, who eventually begat Scott Olsen and Josh Willingham. One’s now the staff ace. Two of them couldn’t stay healthy and got released, returning nothing. One of them turned back into a pumpkin. And those were the guys I named off the top of my head.
I mean, what do you want? St. Claire did the best he could given the “talent” he had to work with. Pitching coaches can’t coach injuries out, and some of the projects were unsalvagable (hi, Jason Simontacchi!). How do you coach a reliever to survive 60-70 appearances a season (Saul Rivera, Jon Rauch, Hanrahan, Jesus Colome, Ayala)? The staff looks terrible this year ..well, in part because they are terrible, but in part because they’re dealing with a .321 BABIP and the worst defensive outfield in the majors. If St. Claire is taking the fall because Adam Dunn looks like an Oompa-Loompa in right, well, can’t say I’m that surprised over it.
by Graysnail on Jun 2, 2009 4:31 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
how about: Mock, Shell, Hinckley, et al.
Graysnail, i’d suggest the guys you named were living up to expectations before injury, not exceeding them. you may want to consider taking a look at their career track records before labelling them as “exceeding expectations”.
St. Claire was not able to push the young guys even to a moderate level of success. Cabrera (and PLEASE understand i’m not blaming Cabrera on St. Claire) flat ignored The Saint’s advice. i just believe that St. Claire’s rep exceeded his performance.
Your voice of doom and gloom. Read more at natsnewsnetwork.blogspot.com
by Dave at Nats News Network on Jun 2, 2009 4:48 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'd argue nothing was expected of Mock, Shell, or Hinckley.
Matt Chico would be the guy I’d call if you’re looking for underperformers, but Mock was generally speaking supposed to be a 4/5 borderline starter. Shell and Hinckley weren’t big-time guys from what I remember – from what I can tell, Hinckley was a will-he/won’t-he type.
St. Claire’s biggest problem looks like failing to teach adequate control (I’d argue in Cabrera’s case he was never going to learn it) – it was what did Mock in while he was in the majors and it’s what’s doing the team in so far this year. My point is that a) he never had much to work with and b) this year seemed worse than before when that’s partially couched in a .321 BABIP and 65% strand rate. Of course the pitchers are going to look lousy when everything drops in and they let everyone and their brother score. (By comparison, league BABIP is normally around .300 and league strand rate is ~70%.) I mean, it was going to happen anyway, but he got hammered this season in part due to bad luck.
Tim Redding lived up to expectations? Really? His 2007 season is pretty clearly the outlier. I’ll give you Rauch (although he was a converted starter, and those transitions don’t always work out), but part of my point is that who I feel were the two most talented pitchers he’s had to work with – Hill and Patterson – couldn’t throw their best pitch without landing on the DL.
by Graysnail on Jun 2, 2009 5:01 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Time out!
I look at it this way. Stay with me now. Joe Bugel is a great teacher/coach for the Redskins. He can teach technique like nobody. Make him the Head coach and he can’t scheme to save himself. The Saint was a good talent evaluator and mechanics fixer. Game planning wasn’t his forte from what I saw. We need someone who can take the player to the field with a plan. Do we have that now? I don’t know…
by Berndaddy on Jun 2, 2009 5:19 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
see, you're losing me here Berndaddy
if The Saint were a good “mechanics fixer”, how come the Nats allow more walks and have second fewest Ks than any other team in the league?
this is my point. Rep > Results
Your voice of doom and gloom. Read more at natsnewsnetwork.blogspot.com
by Dave at Nats News Network on Jun 2, 2009 5:26 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
St. Claire is generally credited with fixing Livan, and Hector Carrasco was also mentioned.
I suppose that’s where the reputation started, and who knows how many were made serviceable from the scrap heap. By the time Randy got most of these guys, 29 other teams had already passed on them.
"It's just too bad, because it reflects on us, the coaching staff." -Manny Acta
"No. I don’t manage like that" -Frank Robinson
by cat daddy3000 on Jun 3, 2009 9:09 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
your last sentence is the kicker
just a shame that neither player’s arm could withstand the stress.
Redding’s half-season (15 starts) weren’t really all that much of an outlier to previous success. his 3.64 ERA and 1.452 WHIP were both in line with his 2003 numbers with Houston (3.68 ERA and 1.386 WHIP). you’re gonna have variences over your career, but his 1.436 WHIP with the Nats in 48 starts clearly was in line with his career 1.509 WHIP.
so yeah, i maintain Redding simply lived up to, but did not exceed, expectations while with the Nationals. in fact, with a BABIP of .292 for those two seasons, it’s pretty clear that’s exaclty what type of pitcher Redding is when healthy.
Your voice of doom and gloom. Read more at natsnewsnetwork.blogspot.com
by Dave at Nats News Network on Jun 2, 2009 5:22 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Huh.
For some reason Redding’s GB/FB spiked in 2003 (of course, “spiked” in this case is 1.22, so your mileage may vary). Actually, looking over Redding’s stats, I almost wonder if the opposite happened when he was in DC; his K/9 tanked and 2007 was basically a beautiful strand rate.
With that being said, I submit that since we’re debating the merits of Tim Redding that St. Claire never had anything to work with in the first place. :)
by Graysnail on Jun 2, 2009 5:39 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
i generally agree on the last point :-)
Your voice of doom and gloom. Read more at natsnewsnetwork.blogspot.com
by Dave at Nats News Network on Jun 2, 2009 5:48 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I wondered for a while what would happen would St. Claire wasn't turning fringe players into serviceable starters...
….whether he’d be able to work with legit hurlers once DC actually had some…we’ll never know…
Does Acta have any friends left?
Vivian Jaffe: "Have you ever transcended space and time?"
Albert Markovski: "Yes. No. Uh, time, not space... No, I don't know what you're talking about."
by Ed Chigliak on Jun 2, 2009 5:37 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
"when St. Claire wasn't"...ugh...
Vivian Jaffe: "Have you ever transcended space and time?"
Albert Markovski: "Yes. No. Uh, time, not space... No, I don't know what you're talking about."
by Ed Chigliak on Jun 2, 2009 5:40 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think he'll resurface somewhere.
I’m curious to see where, though. I don’t think he’s gone for good.
by Graysnail on Jun 2, 2009 5:42 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
St. Claire was here before Acta, lest we forget
typifying him as F.O.A. (friend of Acta) might not necessarily be accurate :-)
Your voice of doom and gloom. Read more at natsnewsnetwork.blogspot.com
by Dave at Nats News Network on Jun 2, 2009 5:49 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Pat Corrales is still a "special advisor" or something like that.
"We are all jinxers in NatsTown™." --cat daddy3000
by Doghouse on Jun 3, 2009 1:34 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
St.Claire
Leo Mazzone is out there somewhere isn’t he?
by coogan on Jun 3, 2009 4:10 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
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