Trade idea

by PhDBrian on Jul 11, 2009 2:38 AM EDT

It is my belief that what this team needs most of all is dominating middle inflielders. Guys that can hit and catch better than average. It occurs to me that the top defensive team in the NL is trying to trade its second baseman and Shortstop... the Pirates. Jack Wilson is the best defensive SS in the NL according to the new defensive metrics over at Fangraphs and an average hitter as well. Freddy Sanchez is a current all star for the pirates, a great hitter for a second basemen, and a plus defender. If we could get them for roughly Guzman, Andy Hands, money and a couple of minor leaguers, we would have them locked up all of next season. The rookie pitchers would be in 7th heaven because they would have potentially outstanding defenders at first, second, ss, and third. With Morgan in CF. Our current ERA would plummet with this trade. Next season we would have the best all round inflield in the NL and I think we would contend. Granted neither of these guys are youngsters at 31, but who cares we could contend next season (assuming our entire pitching rotation does not have a sophmore slump). Lastly, it's always good Karma to rip off the Pirates. Just a real crazy idea.

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I agree

Have thought the same for a bit now too. Its baseball team management 101 to be strong up the middle and I think the Nats have been surprised a little by the decline of Guz. A-Hands was a young guy who showed promise but its clear that we really need to gun pivots if the Plan is ever going to work. I wonder whether Kobernus was part of that but the guy is not the answer for many seasons. I think while guys like Desmond is a few seasons away also from making the difference.

I think now we have an everyday CF (who is passable and can play the position), we actually need a very good young SS and then a good 2B. That’s what we should be getting from guys like NJ and Dunn but we’ll see. I think while u can never have enough good pitching (which is also the best trade commodity), its time we traded for some good middle men (so to speak).

"Baseball is like church. Many attend; few understand."

by Mezza on Jul 11, 2009 3:20 AM EDT reply actions

I like the idea

but I think the team would have to rip the pirates off a bit more realistically.

the defense needs improving. If were are going to trot out lethargic corner OFs, then we may as well shore up the infield.

I haven’t been able to catch a lot of Nats games lately, but how is Morgan doing in CF? Is he proving to be a valuable glove? I like his SB totals since coming over, and I like his bat (unless the stats are misleading me).

Here's to Joe Perry, all-time leading rusher for the 49ers.

by Andrew Davidson on Jul 13, 2009 7:52 PM EDT reply actions

One would think

Until you look at their trade history. And, they are floating these guys already!

"What you know is often the enemy of what you can learn" Bill James

by PhDBrian on Jul 15, 2009 11:33 PM EDT up reply actions

Ok here is the problem

If these are two “dominate” middle infielders and they would make such a big difference, then why do the Pirates suck so much? and have sucked the past 3 years with these two guys in the middle

by Parks Smith on Jul 14, 2009 10:55 AM EDT reply actions

Well, they do and they dont

They suck probably because they dont have pitching mainly (18th in the league, 4.33 ERA). Offense is 14th.

But they dont suck defensively (currently at least) – as a team they are currently 5th in the majors in fielding percentage (.988) and only made 38 Errors leaving them 4th fewest in the majors.

Sanchez made 7 Errors in a 131 games last season, Wilson made 5 in 80 game – all last season. This season? Wilson not doing as well with 7Es, Sanchez is a machine with just 1.

Compared with our beloved Guzman who has made 12 Es, Gonzo has 7, A-hands has 6… and many more games to go.

Good middle men definitely make a difference. But obviously they cant pitch and catch as well… but over the course of the season I’m sure there are stats as to how many extra games they’d win (I just arent as much as stat monkey as others). All good pennant teams have good middle men.

"Baseball is like church. Many attend; few understand."

by Mezza on Jul 14, 2009 8:04 PM EDT up reply actions

I should also point out

That as pivots make by far and away the most assists of any position player – its important they do a good job defensively.

"Baseball is like church. Many attend; few understand."

by Mezza on Jul 14, 2009 8:18 PM EDT up reply actions

OK

Why would the Pirates ever do this trade?

Why should are strategy to become a succesful ball club be to just trade guys with the Pirates, when the Pirates haven’t had any success since like 1979??

You want a sure handed middle infield? We have a 2B already in Mike Morse and he is hitting .400 since coming to the Nats. If we traded fro Sanchez and Wilson (which will never happen!) then we would be paying 16.4 million for the two of them for one season next year, thats not smart. Why not call up Morse and next year sign a guy like Khalil Greene or Chone Figgins.

by Parks Smith on Jul 15, 2009 9:31 AM EDT up reply actions

some how all my numbers got changed to 1, haha

by Parks Smith on Jul 15, 2009 9:32 AM EDT up reply actions

Well, I never pointed out that the trade was ever possible – just that we needed to strengthen the middle infield.

Well, I think history will show that pinching players off the Pirates has been a relatively successful venture for other clubs, hence, why they are so bad – would you like me to name them all? Bonds, Bay, etc?

And as for Morse, while he is hitting well, I doubt he is an everyday player at this stage but you never know. That said, I dont mind the idea of a Greene/Figgins either. Just that we need a gun SS sooner rather than later that’s going to be around for years to come.

"Baseball is like church. Many attend; few understand."

by Mezza on Jul 15, 2009 7:01 PM EDT up reply actions

I think the fact Bonds was a 2 time MVP before coming to SF and Bay was a ROY and two time all-star is a little different then Freddy Sanchez and especially Jack Wilson.

Sure Sanchez is a 3x AS and a former batting champ but we don’t have the haul to bring him in. So if we are going to talk about ficticious trades and people we need why don’t we just trade for Pujols, Kinsler, Hanley Ramirez, that would be a pretty good infield right?

by Parks Smith on Jul 16, 2009 9:38 AM EDT up reply actions

Well, I never pointed out that the trade was ever possible – just that we needed to strengthen the middle infield.

"Baseball is like church. Many attend; few understand."

by Mezza on Jul 16, 2009 8:09 PM EDT up reply actions

Khalil Greene is a bad player

Figgens is not a good fielder at second or SS.

"What you know is often the enemy of what you can learn" Bill James

by PhDBrian on Jul 15, 2009 11:31 PM EDT up reply actions

Ok well your a GM, who are you taking at SS next year?

Orlando Cabrera (35)
Alex Cora (34)
Craig Counsell (39)
Bobby Crosby (30)
Adam Everett (33)
Chris Gomez (39)
Alex Gonzalez (32)
Khalil Greene (30)
Jerry Hairston Jr. (34)
John McDonald (35)
Marco Scutaro (34)
Miguel Tejada (36)
Omar Vizquel (43)
Jack Wilson (32)

Kind of slim pickings and once again jack wilson’s contract would cost 8.4 MM and Sanchez would be 8, you can’t sit here and tell me Chone Figgins wouldn’t be an upgrade! his career fielding percentage at 2nd is like .975 with like 10 errors

by Parks Smith on Jul 16, 2009 9:43 AM EDT up reply actions

Money not a factor I take Wilson

Next Everett, Alex Gonzalez, Scuatro, Greene, Crosby, Cora, Counsell, Cabrera, then maybe figgens. But Jack Wilson is by far my top choice.
At second Sanchez is by far my first choice for to trade
If you go check out fangraphs data you will find out that figgens is a career -8.2 UZR/150 at secondbase. That makes him well below average at second. Worse at second than Guzman is at SS. He is +3.2 at 3rd, so that is where he plays. But figgens is a very good offensive player, so he is far from useless even at second. But given that choice I would keep Gonzalez at second with andy hands backing him up. Gonzalez is proving to me he can hit and he is young enough to improve at second.

"What you know is often the enemy of what you can learn" Bill James

by PhDBrian on Jul 16, 2009 10:32 PM EDT up reply actions

I’m not a numbers guy/fan graph freak/stat head like all of yall. Why would you want any SS over the age of 30 for a rebuilding team that needs a long term solution? Chone Figgins is an All-Star so he must be doing something right.

by Parks Smith on Jul 17, 2009 9:30 AM EDT up reply actions

Because figgens is a bad middle infielder defensively.

We have two middle infielders that can hit, but they are both bad defensively. We need gloves!

"What you know is often the enemy of what you can learn" Bill James

by PhDBrian on Jul 17, 2009 10:39 PM EDT up reply actions

Counting range the Pirates are the best all round defensive team in the NL on some systems

in 2009. They have a bad defense firstbasemen and Catcher, but everyone else is very good. To bad the pitchers are so bad they kill the team. Worst k/bb ratio in the game. They also lack significant power or speed, but that might be changing with the new OFs they promoted.

"What you know is often the enemy of what you can learn" Bill James

by PhDBrian on Jul 15, 2009 11:36 PM EDT up reply actions

Its a team game and every team has some good dudes

Unfortunately for the Pirates these two guys are the two best guys veteran guys they have period. They are not A+ guys well sanchesmight be, but they are very good. They are surrounded by average to below average guys and have some god awful pitching (Ian Snell I am calling you out). But note they are just under a .500 team anyway.

"What you know is often the enemy of what you can learn" Bill James

by PhDBrian on Jul 15, 2009 11:28 PM EDT up reply actions

Trade idea...

Fer Shizzzle…and send that turd Bellyache with them as packing material…

by Jacques Tootight on Jul 14, 2009 12:42 PM EDT reply actions

Pirates are picking up the options on Wilson and Sanchez

awwww

by Parks Smith on Jul 17, 2009 9:41 AM EDT reply actions

Yep they are not as dumb as I hoped.

"What you know is often the enemy of what you can learn" Bill James

by PhDBrian on Jul 17, 2009 10:38 PM EDT up reply actions

U never know

Doesnt mean they wont trade em for a handful of not much… but maybe they’re getting smarter?

"Baseball is like church. Many attend; few understand."

by Mezza on Jul 18, 2009 10:15 PM EDT up reply actions

Looks like my idea is back on the table!!!

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=4339694

Wilson and Sanchez are tired of losing with the Pirates!!!

"What you know is often the enemy of what you can learn" Bill James

by PhDBrian on Jul 19, 2009 5:17 PM EDT reply actions

They can come and lose with us!

"Baseball is like church. Many attend; few understand."

by Mezza on Jul 19, 2009 7:26 PM EDT up reply actions

They're making Guz/Kearns' money and turned down half that for two years to stay in Pittsburgh

At 31 years old each, there’s not much that makes sense for the players or the Nats, but hang on to your dreams, PhDBrian!!!

"And it's really tough to put your finger on what it is, uh specifically, it kind of like snowballs on us and we just don't execute at times..." -Rizzo

by cat daddy3000 on Jul 19, 2009 7:26 PM EDT up reply actions

They play better than Kearns...

Who according to Ladson… isnt going anywhere with his 152 avg.

"Baseball is like church. Many attend; few understand."

by Mezza on Jul 19, 2009 7:34 PM EDT up reply actions

Everyone plays better than Kearns.....

Great guy to have around. Scoots over to give more space on the bench to the active players. Couldn’t ask for a more polite boat anchor around the neck of the franchise.

But, aging MI’s at $8mil each for multiple years? ….. Lerners say no…

"And it's really tough to put your finger on what it is, uh specifically, it kind of like snowballs on us and we just don't execute at times..." -Rizzo

by cat daddy3000 on Jul 19, 2009 10:01 PM EDT up reply actions

If they gave me $8m

Id be a great bench guy. I’d never complain… I could strike out as much as Kearns… hell, i’d even develop ‘intangibles’!

"Baseball is like church. Many attend; few understand."

by Mezza on Jul 19, 2009 11:28 PM EDT up reply actions

Not me....... I want to fill the new void......

Reasons to hope Goggles finds a new gig…….

c) It’s freakin’ Julian Tavarez…Every division needs a crazy person to start things.

"And it's really tough to put your finger on what it is, uh specifically, it kind of like snowballs on us and we just don't execute at times..." -Rizzo

by cat daddy3000 on Jul 20, 2009 1:08 AM EDT up reply actions

They are a huge defensive upgrade over anything we have or could get

and not bad hitters. I would give them each 2-3 more years of above average or better defense and the bats a little longer. Seriously take a look at the possible SS free agents and available trade bait and Jack Wilson is clearly the best one. I think he might be cheaper to trade for than sign, because most teams are going to be interested once he is on the market. He may be 31 but he is a gold glove defender easily this season if the defensive metrics over at fangraphs have any validity. Based on his winshares he is worth about $9 million this season. Sanchez is worth roughly the same.

"What you know is often the enemy of what you can learn" Bill James

by PhDBrian on Jul 22, 2009 11:41 PM EDT up reply actions