FOXSports.com Reporting Florida Marlins Acquire Washington Nationals' First Baseman Nick Johnson....
by Patrick Reddington on Jul 31, 2009 4:06 PM EDT
Email
PrintSAY IT AIN'T SO, RIZZO!!!!!
•MLB trade deadline buzz: Friday's edition - MLB News - FOX Sports on MSN - Ken Rosenthal and Jon Paul Morosi.
"The Marlins have acquired first baseman Nick Johnson for the Nationals for Class AA left-hander Aaron Thompson, according to a major-league source."
The MLB Network just confirmed what was considered a dead deal an hour ago, or at least cited Mr.'s Rosenthal and Morosi's report that the Marlins have in fact acquired Nick Johnson from the Nationals in return for minor league pitcher Aaron Thompson. Washington Post writer Chico Harlan wrote that the, "Nick Johnson trade to Florida fell through and he'll be in uniform for the Nationals tonight," but that report is time stamped at 3:15 pm EST, while the MLB Network report and the FOXSports.com article both say a deal has been completed. The FOXSports.com article is time stamped 3:53 pm EST.
"Nick Johnson has been traded to the Marlins for minor league starter Aaron Thompson. The deal was completed right at the 4 p.m. deadline. The lineup in the Nats' clubhouse was just taken down..."
• Joe Frisaro (JoeFrisaro) on Twitter
"...some last minute wheeling and dealing has landed Nick Johnson with Florida..."
• MiLB.com Player Page: Aaron Thompson.
So who plays first tonight?
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NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!
"If Daniel Cabrera threw stones at glass houses, he'd walk it in four pitches." -GalRevelsInPee, Nationals Journal
YESSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
by bluelineswinger on Jul 31, 2009 4:14 PM EDT reply actions
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!
Vivian Jaffe: "Have you ever transcended space and time?"
Albert Markovski: "Yes. No. Uh, time, not space... No, I don't know what you're talking about."
by Patrick Reddington on Jul 31, 2009 4:17 PM EDT up reply actions
WTF? We also have to PAY $1.8 million of his salary for the rest of the year?
Why didn’t we just trade him for some magic beanstalk beans?
Here's some help to challenge the Phillies and here's some cash...
Vivian Jaffe: "Have you ever transcended space and time?"
Albert Markovski: "Yes. No. Uh, time, not space... No, I don't know what you're talking about."
by Patrick Reddington on Jul 31, 2009 4:25 PM EDT up reply actions
BINGO!!!
"And it's really tough to put your finger on what it is, uh specifically, it kind of like snowballs on us and we just don't execute at times..." -Rizzo
by cat daddy3000 on Jul 31, 2009 4:30 PM EDT up reply actions
LOL @ paying Johnson to beat us like 6 more times this year
"If Daniel Cabrera threw stones at glass houses, he'd walk it in four pitches." -GalRevelsInPee, Nationals Journal
by tengoalyrunr30 on Jul 31, 2009 4:26 PM EDT up reply actions
Who plays 1B when Dunn is DH?
"If Daniel Cabrera threw stones at glass houses, he'd walk it in four pitches." -GalRevelsInPee, Nationals Journal
Peavey traded to White Sox...
Vivian Jaffe: "Have you ever transcended space and time?"
Albert Markovski: "Yes. No. Uh, time, not space... No, I don't know what you're talking about."
by Patrick Reddington on Jul 31, 2009 4:30 PM EDT reply actions
He'll probably just
Make use of his no trade clause again
by bluelineswinger on Jul 31, 2009 4:31 PM EDT up reply actions
MLB just confirmed it's official...
Vivian Jaffe: "Have you ever transcended space and time?"
Albert Markovski: "Yes. No. Uh, time, not space... No, I don't know what you're talking about."
by Patrick Reddington on Jul 31, 2009 4:33 PM EDT up reply actions
Peavy, typing quickly sorry...
Vivian Jaffe: "Have you ever transcended space and time?"
Albert Markovski: "Yes. No. Uh, time, not space... No, I don't know what you're talking about."
by Patrick Reddington on Jul 31, 2009 4:31 PM EDT reply actions
Halladay has not been traded, according to Sherman on Twitter. So many wasted words.
"And it's really tough to put your finger on what it is, uh specifically, it kind of like snowballs on us and we just don't execute at times..." -Rizzo
by cat daddy3000 on Jul 31, 2009 4:31 PM EDT up reply actions
Gotta go do the GameThread for Tonight...
Vivian Jaffe: "Have you ever transcended space and time?"
Albert Markovski: "Yes. No. Uh, time, not space... No, I don't know what you're talking about."
by Patrick Reddington on Jul 31, 2009 4:33 PM EDT reply actions
Beimel trade: One of them is (may be) the injured former Futures game prospect Ryan Mattheus
"And it's really tough to put your finger on what it is, uh specifically, it kind of like snowballs on us and we just don't execute at times..." -Rizzo
Hearing the same
Not even rated by John Sickels. SB Nation’s Rockies counterpart is saying that they don’t have a name on the other prospect, but figure he’s in the same range and that this is effectively a salary dump from the Nats.
by bluelineswinger on Jul 31, 2009 4:41 PM EDT up reply actions
Salary dump...... salary dump.....wow.... Yet, they're paying $1.8mil for Nick to play for the Marlins.
Multi-billionaire Lerners need a salary dump….
"And it's really tough to put your finger on what it is, uh specifically, it kind of like snowballs on us and we just don't execute at times..." -Rizzo
by cat daddy3000 on Jul 31, 2009 4:50 PM EDT up reply actions
What's it like to be a contender????
Fishstripes has a 4 comment Fanpost on the Nick Johnson trade… and no trade thread at all…. (sigh….)
"And it's really tough to put your finger on what it is, uh specifically, it kind of like snowballs on us and we just don't execute at times..." -Rizzo
Does InterRizzo...
get a Ring if the Fish Wildcard their way to another title as a part of this deal…???
"Oh no sir, this has been embarassing for quite some time. " ~Bagger Vance
by BloggerVance on Jul 31, 2009 4:45 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
Hey, we finally get Dunn at first tonight, just like Bowden always wanted...Sweet...
Vivian Jaffe: "Have you ever transcended space and time?"
Albert Markovski: "Yes. No. Uh, time, not space... No, I don't know what you're talking about."
by Patrick Reddington on Jul 31, 2009 4:48 PM EDT reply actions
BOWDEN!!
"It's not a secret, you don't need to be an expert on math to know that walks plus errors equals runs...." --Mannyger Acta
Just think of it like Nick went on the 60-day DL with a career ending injury.....
Just think of it like that……..
We couldn't buy a AA pitcher for $2 million? Really?
by vanatsfan on Jul 31, 2009
by cat daddy3000 on Jul 31, 2009 4:54 PM EDT up reply actions
That's a great way to put it....... and we just happened to pick up and sign some scrub for Harrisburg
We couldn't buy a AA pitcher for $2 million? Really?
by vanatsfan on Jul 31, 2009
by cat daddy3000 on Jul 31, 2009 10:03 PM EDT up reply actions
'hey hey
Harrisburg need the wins…
"On this team, the difference between Clippard and Julian Tavarez is like the difference between a 6-2 loss and a 9-2 loss." -- Chico Harlan
And Rizzo came to the rescue...... riding his war burro and carrying his gift sack of turnips for the village children....
We couldn't buy a AA pitcher for $2 million? Really?
by vanatsfan on Jul 31, 2009
by cat daddy3000 on Jul 31, 2009 11:01 PM EDT up reply actions
Yay!!!!...... Let's see what he can do!!!! .......Go Adam Go!!!
We couldn't buy a AA pitcher for $2 million? Really?
by vanatsfan on Jul 31, 2009
by cat daddy3000 on Jul 31, 2009 4:52 PM EDT up reply actions
Just in case anyone misinterprets, this is hugely sarcastic......... (spit...)
We couldn't buy a AA pitcher for $2 million? Really?
by vanatsfan on Jul 31, 2009
by cat daddy3000 on Jul 31, 2009 6:26 PM EDT up reply actions
GREAT LINEUP!!!!!!...........
Tonight’s lineup:
Morgan — 8
Guzman — 6
Zimmerman — 5
Dunn — 3
Willingham — 9
Harris — 7
Bard — 2
Gonzalez — 4
Lannan — 1
We couldn't buy a AA pitcher for $2 million? Really?
by vanatsfan on Jul 31, 2009
some more info on Aaron Thompson for those that care
http://floridamarlinsminors.blogspot.com/2009/07/aaron-thompson-continues-his-late.html
Marlins Top 50 Spex : FutureFish.org
Thanks, FF, any opinion on Thompson? I assume everyone knows all they need to know about Nick Johnson...
Vivian Jaffe: "Have you ever transcended space and time?"
Albert Markovski: "Yes. No. Uh, time, not space... No, I don't know what you're talking about."
by Patrick Reddington on Jul 31, 2009 5:34 PM EDT up reply actions
That sounds like a future LOOGY to me.
well we nedd bullpen help. But for NJ?
"What you know is often the enemy of what you can learn" Bill James
For NJ and his salary..... think of it as a $1.8mil bonus for the rights to sign Thompson...
We couldn't buy a AA pitcher for $2 million? Really?
by vanatsfan on Jul 31, 2009
by cat daddy3000 on Aug 1, 2009 12:42 AM EDT up reply actions
Johnson for Thompson
The Nats settled for Thompson when they realized they would not be able to sign Strasberg. What a move – more bad years ahead! They can keep my season tickets next year.
They are similar....... both have two syllable last names...
We couldn't buy a AA pitcher for $2 million? Really?
by vanatsfan on Jul 31, 2009
by cat daddy3000 on Jul 31, 2009 6:29 PM EDT up reply actions
Man, even I don't believe that.
Eric Berry for sending the guy who wins the Heisman spinning 720 degrees in the air at the podium - or for intercepting it and returning it to where it rightfully belongs
by Chris Pendley on Jul 31, 2009 11:54 PM EDT up reply actions
nick johnson
for a double A pitcher…. holy lord
Nah, you got it all wrong, this was awesome...(sigh)...
Vivian Jaffe: "Have you ever transcended space and time?"
Albert Markovski: "Yes. No. Uh, time, not space... No, I don't know what you're talking about."
by Patrick Reddington on Jul 31, 2009 5:40 PM EDT up reply actions
"Sigh" is Right . . .
. . . But this is the logical outcome of the entire “the Nats stink so lets flip our players for prospects” nonsense that you keep reading online. If Rizzo hadn’t traded NJ he would have been crucified for not trading him! (I’m not saying that you would have done that.)
Following this year’s deadline deals, I can’t think of a single losing team, with the possible exception of Oakland in the Holloday deal, that didn’t get hosed. If you’re not dumping salary like Pittsburgh (and the Nats clearly aren’t) why do teams make these deals? To keep the media and the blogosphere happy?
The fact that they paid part of Nick's salary has some thinking it was a salary dump...
Vivian Jaffe: "Have you ever transcended space and time?"
Albert Markovski: "Yes. No. Uh, time, not space... No, I don't know what you're talking about."
by Patrick Reddington on Jul 31, 2009 6:00 PM EDT up reply actions
Yes...
Remember, this was a deal that was “dead” at 3:15 according to the Marlins. That to me means that we offered MORE money to get it done.
I was all about trading NJ for value… but if this is the best deal we could get done, I would’ve held on to him and hoped for the sandwich pick.
To me, that means that the Marlins took a serious look, kept talking with Rizzo, and tried to keep the media out of it
And then finally told the Nats that they could have the pitcher they’d prefer (Thompson, though I would have probably preferred Tucker, but Rizzo wanted Thompson) if they ate more of the contract.
by bluelineswinger on Jul 31, 2009 6:28 PM EDT up reply actions
Pittsburgh picked up
One of their top three starters by 2011 in Alderson.
They picked up their future first baseman by 2010 in Clement. In the same deal, they added a solid utility man in Ronny Cedeno and three decent (albeit, not great) pitching prospects, one of whom may well pan out…. for Jack Wilson and a guy who told them earlier this season that he’d rather pitch at AAA than in the majors.
They picked up a potential future leadoff man in Gorkys Hernandez back in the McLouth deal.
They picked up a couple of big league ready starters in Kevin Hart and Charlie Morton.
They picked up a solid, cost-controlled second base replacement for Sanchez (who can actually do things other than just hit for average) in Josh Harrison.
They picked up a big-league ready reliever in Miguel Asciano (though they’re sending him to Indianapolis).
Last season, they added two league average (or better) starters in Ohlendorff and Karstens for Xavier Nady and Damaso Marte. Marte’s a league-average LOOGY at best. Nady’s career may be over.
The Pirates moves were about a lot more than dumping salary. They were about blowing up a team that isn’t working (and hasn’t worked, for 17 years) to bring in as much talent to build for the future as they could.
Seriously (again), what good would holding Nick Johnson have done for the Nats this year? At best, he wins them two more games. They go from being a 50-112 team to a 52-110 team, finishing with the worst record in the majors regardless. At the end of the year, he leaves via free agency with nothing coming back to the Nats.
Yeah…. I’d have been among the group that would have crucified Rizzo had he not dealt Johnson. In fact, I’m still ripping him a bit because he held onto his pieces beyond their peak value and ended up taking lesser deals in the end.
by bluelineswinger on Jul 31, 2009 6:20 PM EDT up reply actions
Forgot to mention the Milledge/Hanny for Morgan/Burnett deal
While I like what the deal has done for the Nats, the Pirates still got the players in that deal who could have the brightest futures. The ceilings on both Hanrahan and Milledge are considerably higher than Morgan and Burnett, though there’s a lot of question as to whether they can reach them.
There’s no question in my mind that I’d rather watch my team (which is the Nats, and was the Expos since the 1980s) make a couple of deals with 2011 in mind than try to be just a little less embarrassing with the win-loss record in 2009. The players that everyone’s been calling for Rizzo to trade for generally are not under contract for 2011 (save Willingham), which is the nearest possible date that the Nats could expect to even challenge the .500 mark given their current core. It just doesn’t make sense to me not to try and move them for players who are more likely to be contributing in 2-3 years.
by bluelineswinger on Jul 31, 2009 6:25 PM EDT up reply actions
NJ is a probable type B free agent
Florida has a small chance at the wild card (yes its psossible). So they made this deal primarily because they will get a better player in the draft (from type B) than they gave up for NJ. Plus, an outside chance at the wild card. Huge win for Florida
"What you know is often the enemy of what you can learn" Bill James
Latest projections show that Johnson
Will have to have a nearly MVP caliber last two months to earn Type B Status. Some of the old projections that were being shown were a little off (overvalued OBP & didn’t take two years into account). It’s really doubtful that he gets Type B status.
by bluelineswinger on Aug 1, 2009 2:14 AM EDT up reply actions
Pittsburgh, Baltimore, San Diego,
all made excellent moves that changed overvalued assets into cheap players that are under long term team control. This frees up money so that they can sign expensive free agents when they have a team that is ready to win. Who the hell cares if you break up the core of 100 loss team? The subsequent rebuild can’t possible be worse. I’d like to see Lannan and the Zimmerman(n)s actually be on a respectable team at some point in their careers. The way things are going here, they may never see .500 with this club. Johnson wasn’t needed at the beginning of the year, so he should have been traded at the beginning of the year. If he had been they would have gotten a lot more than AA filler.
by uneasy rider on Aug 1, 2009 10:30 AM EDT up reply actions
With this trade...
Only five of the twelve players on the 2009 calendar are still around.
Here:
Jason Bergmann
Ronnie Belliard
Austin Kearns
Ryan Zimmerman
Cristian Guzman (and he’s even incorrectly spelled as “Christian”)
Gone:
Nick Johnson
Paul Lo Duca
John Rauch
Chad Cordero
Dmitri Young
Wille Mo Pena
Lastings Milledge
Considering they're on their way to a second consecutive season of finishing with the worst record in the league
Maybe a lot of those players from the 2009 calendar change should be gone.
by bluelineswinger on Jul 31, 2009 6:29 PM EDT up reply actions
I'm with you bluelineswinger.
I trust Rizzo’s ability to evaluate minor league talent. They feel that this guy Thompson can potentially be a mid rotation starter at some point. That’s our MO right now. Get as many potential mid rotation starters as we can from other teams. Increase competition in our farm system and convert the extras into decent relievers and trade bait. I don’t see how you can criticize this move. Singles hitting firstbasemen are not the path to greatness, especially if they have an injury history.
These may not be the best trades that could have been made over the last few months, but they are better than standing pat.
by souldrummer on Jul 31, 2009 11:56 PM EDT up reply actions
Fire Rizzo
We wont contend for years now!! He sucks so badly as a GM. Any moron could tell you that NJ was irreplaceable and we got almost nothing for him. What a total waste!!!!
"What you know is often the enemy of what you can learn" Bill James
I look forward to seeing Dunn improve with the glove at 1B..... and become a singles hitter...
I also look forward to seeing Zim really improve his throws, because if he doesn’t…….Dunn won’t help him…
We couldn't buy a AA pitcher for $2 million? Really?
by vanatsfan on Jul 31, 2009
by cat daddy3000 on Jul 31, 2009 10:09 PM EDT up reply actions
at least Dunn is four inches taller than Johnson
Your voice of doom and gloom. Read more at natsnewsnetwork.blogspot.com
by Dave at District Sports Page on Aug 1, 2009 12:06 AM EDT up reply actions
We got noone special for NJ
Thompson, a lefty pitcher at the Double-A levelwas 5-9 with a 4.11 ERA so far this year.
we got an average AA pitcher!!!! for type B free agent. This was a god awful trade! We even gave them money! Bowden’s trade for Millage was the only trade made in the last ten years for this organization which I think was worse in context. A type B free agent should bring you a draft pick as good or better than a guy who has a 4.11 ERA in AA after 4 years in the minors. So I see the Marlins gaining hugely in this trade and we gaining nothing.
Thanks TNJ people for putting pressure that resulted in a big loss for the frachise.
With Dunn at first we stand a damb good chance of losing more than the 1962 Mets now.
"What you know is often the enemy of what you can learn" Bill James
I've seen nothing that says Johnson is a Type B.
The list I saw as of 7/30 had him a few points away. MLB Trade Rumors posted it.
If you can’t convince them, confuse them. - President Harry S Truman
They probably wouldn't have offered Nick arbitration in any event.... he might have accepted...
We couldn't buy a AA pitcher for $2 million? Really?
by vanatsfan on Jul 31, 2009
by cat daddy3000 on Aug 1, 2009 12:44 AM EDT up reply actions
Dunn playing first at the WBC was a total disaster
this season just went much farther downhill today, as did next season if you ask me.
"What you know is often the enemy of what you can learn" Bill James
Bu...bu...but Dunn's been practicing....
We couldn't buy a AA pitcher for $2 million? Really?
by vanatsfan on Jul 31, 2009
by cat daddy3000 on Aug 1, 2009 12:49 AM EDT up reply actions
snicker...
We couldn't buy a AA pitcher for $2 million? Really?
by vanatsfan on Jul 31, 2009
by cat daddy3000 on Aug 1, 2009 1:18 AM EDT up reply actions
He is just to large and gangly to ever be a great fielder.
He can practice for ages and that does not change.
"What you know is often the enemy of what you can learn" Bill James
Yup..... when he does make a diving stop, though.......Web Gem!!!
We couldn't buy a AA pitcher for $2 million? Really?
by vanatsfan on Jul 31, 2009
by cat daddy3000 on Aug 1, 2009 1:20 AM EDT up reply actions
If he finished this season with his current stats he easily makes it.
Several articles talk about him being type B. I’ll see if I can find one and post it by the morning.
"What you know is often the enemy of what you can learn" Bill James
Since he missed most of last season, that plays into his lower score, right?
I have no clue how it works, but, you’re right about the arbitration….he’d get some big cash.
Nick could be the next Kenny Lofton…we can sign him and trade him again next year.
And if next season is as disastrous as this one, Dunn will definitely move.
If you can’t convince them, confuse them. - President Harry S Truman
I doubt NJ resigns with a 100 loss team
He will get $8-10 million from someone this offseason if he continues to play all year.
"What you know is often the enemy of what you can learn" Bill James
that is my understnading, but I am not expert
it is a plus minus system over his last 3 years with a stronger weighting to recent years.
"What you know is often the enemy of what you can learn" Bill James
I'm fairly certain that it was all the pressure that the people at Federal Baseball were putting on Mike Rizzo
That caused him to trade Nick Johnson for (supposedly) less than he was worth. It couldn’t have been that he thought that Thompson was a pretty good, if slightly underrated prospect (I don’t know…. he did push for Thompson rather than accepting a deal that involved a player generally thought of as a better prospect entering this season (Tucker) and another prospect). It couldn’t have been that he thought that there was an excellent chance that he had to trade him or lose him for nothing at the end of the year. It couldn’t have been that he realized that his chances of Thompson becoming a useful player down the road were exponentially larger than the gamble that he’d find a stud ready to produce in the next couple of years with the 40th pick in the draft.
It must have been that we were putting too much pressure on him.
by bluelineswinger on Aug 1, 2009 2:56 AM EDT up reply actions
That might help Zim a little..... I'm not looking forward to all the doubles down the line from the lefty heavy NL east, though...
Dukes’ arm is going to get a workout throwing to second…
We couldn't buy a AA pitcher for $2 million? Really?
by vanatsfan on Jul 31, 2009
by cat daddy3000 on Aug 1, 2009 12:40 AM EDT up reply actions
maybe dukes should stand a few feet behind Dunn
Did you see Dunn at the WBC? He needs a designated fielder at first!
"What you know is often the enemy of what you can learn" Bill James
It'll be the new shift strategy....... Like the I-formation...
We couldn't buy a AA pitcher for $2 million? Really?
by vanatsfan on Jul 31, 2009
by cat daddy3000 on Aug 1, 2009 12:46 AM EDT up reply actions
Yeah, and he'll probably stand on top of tha bag and trip half the runners.
If you can’t convince them, confuse them. - President Harry S Truman
If Dunn plays firstbase next season this team will lose 100 games again
It was Guzman and Dunn we should have traded for a song not NJ!!!
"What you know is often the enemy of what you can learn" Bill James
...And now the Strasburg watch begins.
In the post-game, Ray Knight said of the Marlins pitcher we got…he was one of the reasons they moved Olsen. A lot like Olsen. Sneaky, 90-92 fastball and a helluva change-up.
But, I think they moved Olsen mostly because they didn’t want to pay him. Not a bad move.
If you can’t convince them, confuse them. - President Harry S Truman
Olson is better than Thompson.
After 4 years in the Minors thompson has a 4.11 era and a career losing record. His fastball is usually around 88-89 but sometimes hits 91. He throws 4 pitches with average to above average stuff, but none with command. He has a 75 to 43 K/BB ratio this season in AA. that translates to about 55/45 in the majors. Nearly all his trouble is off righthanders. So his likely upside is as a LOOGY, but some say he could become a #4 starter with more time. So if all the chips fall perfect he becomes Scott Olson. With average improvement he is a LOOGY with a 4 something ERA. for NJ? Whipppeeee!
I say fire Rizzo for making a terribler move just because he feared criticism.
"What you know is often the enemy of what you can learn" Bill James
I'm just going to start this as a new semi-thread, since people haven't read it when it's a reply to something else
http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2009/07/elias-rankings-2.html
These are the latest rankings projections according to the Elias Formula. If you click the link at the end of the article, it will take you directly to an Adobe page with the actual rankings.
Among NL 1b/OF, you’ll find Nick Johnson. His current rating under the formula is 50.77. At present, there would be twelve other players ahead of Johnson who are not Type B Free Agents among the 1b/OF in the NL… The lowest expected member of the Type B Free Agent class at this time would be Jeff Francoeur (57.78). My comment that it might take a miracle for Johnson to acquire Type B status appears to be incorrect. He will, however, have to be very good…. in fact, quite a bit better than he was in the first half (which was a strong first half). It’s possible, but it’s not the lock that some will have you believe.
Thank You.
It’s not worth the gamble. This pitcher the Nats got can be a starter in the majors. And if he’s a 3, 4 or 5 starter, that’s fine.
There are plenty of 5 and lower starters on the team now. Let’s hope they make the most of their chance, but there will be flame-outs.
If you can’t convince them, confuse them. - President Harry S Truman
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