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"Nationals shortstop Cristian Guzman has cleared waivers and will not be traded to the Red Sox, according to a baseball source. "

"But the source said the Nationals have no intentions of trading Guzman. In fact, Washington was upset that the story on Guzman even came out. "

Why did they put him on waivers?

3 months ago Padilla_tiny Mezza 16 comments 0 recs  | 

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Just to see who would bite

It’s a good way to find interested parties and asses his value.

"What you know is often the enemy of what you can learn" Bill James

by PhDBrian on Aug 11, 2009 12:39 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

but they can just deny a waiver claim?

I mean, what if Boston didn’t renege the waiver claim?

by Andrew Davidson on Aug 11, 2009 1:40 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yep

This article from Brian Oliver at NFA was the best I read on the hows and whys.
http://natsfarm.com/2009/08/10/cristian-guzman-claimed/#comments

Padilla walked into the Nats' clubhouse for the first time and said, "My God. I'm in heaven."

by Mezza on Aug 11, 2009 1:13 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Doesn't really mean anything

While you’d think that mlb.com would be a pretty consistent source, their headline is confusing as hell:

Guzman Clears Waivers, Staying With Nats

Red Sox may have placed claim on veteran shortstop

Well… which is it? Did he clear waivers or did the Red Sox really claim him? If he cleared waivers, he’s eligible to be traded anywhere. If the Red Sox placed a claim and the Nats withdrew him from the waiver pool, he didn’t “clear” waivers and is not eligible to be traded.

Assuming that he actually “cleared” waivers….

The Nats could certainly still trade him. In fact, the option of trading him is the only real reason to have a player go through waivers this time of year. It wouldn’t be the first time a team said they weren’t going to trade a player (or fire a coach/manager) only to do so a week or two later, would it?

Maybe it’s just that my feelings are that the Nats would be better off trading him. Either way, the fact that he may have (still can’t decide whether the headline or the subtext is right) cleared waivers means that they’ll either keep him or at least get something (other than simple salary relief, a la Toronto and Alex Rios) should they decide to move him elsewhere.

Either way, it’s been an odd situation that has (in a complete reversal from the attempts to sign a certain draftee) played out through the media.

by bluelineswinger on Aug 11, 2009 3:47 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Yea I agree its really confusing

On first look I thought they must have all passed on him. But you’re right he can be actually traded anywhere now. I’didnt know about the fact that they stick the whole team on waivers as a way of trading through August.

Padilla walked into the Nats' clubhouse for the first time and said, "My God. I'm in heaven."

by Mezza on Aug 11, 2009 5:07 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Almost everyone goes through waivers

It’s a fact of August, almost all players get put on the waiver wire.

by Redsauce on Aug 11, 2009 8:04 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Gotta say.. glad Guzz is still a Nat

I cannot really look to the future. Right now we are on an 8 game winning streak and Guzzzzzy is hittin’. A couple weeks ago, trade him. Now.. keep him.

Go Nats!!!!!!!

by ryzim22 on Aug 11, 2009 10:14 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Right now we are on an eight game winning streak

That has pushed our season record to 40-72. While I believe their play since Riggleman took over the team is a lot closer to what I expected to see from the team entering this season, I think that their actual potential meets somewhere in the middle (between Acta’s 26-61 and Riggleman’s 14-11. I felt heading into the season that we had the horses to threaten .500 if everything broke right. I still feel that way. Manny Acta leading the team didn’t allow much to break right, in my estimation.

Still, what present is there really? The Nats have won eight straight games. Yes. If they can do that four more times consecutively, they’ll be a .500 team that still doesn’t have a shot at the playoffs? I just don’t get it. Sure… I want to see the team get some wins. Sure… I want to see them put a product on the field that’s competitive. Honestly, even if they win another ten straight and run their winning streak to 18, what would be so competitive (in the wide spectrum) about being 22 games under .500?

Guz
Is
Dead
Money

by bluelineswinger on Aug 11, 2009 2:02 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

We got to start talking about the three G's

Guzzy’s gotta go !!! Guzzy’s gotta go !!! Guzzy’s gotta go !!! Guzzy’s gotta go !!! Guzzy’s gotta go !!! Guzzy’s gotta go !!! Guzzy’s gotta go !!! Guzzy’s gotta go !!! Guzzy’s gotta go !!! Guzzy’s gotta go !!! Guzzy’s gotta go !!! Guzzy’s gotta go !!! Guzzy’s gotta go !!! Guzzy’s gotta go !!! Guzzy’s gotta go !!! Guzzy’s gotta go !!! Guzzy’s gotta go !!! Guzzy’s gotta go !!! Guzzy’s gotta go !!! Guzzy’s gotta go !!! Guzzy’s gotta go !!! Guzzy’s gotta go !!! Guzzy’s gotta go !!!

by Berndaddy on Aug 11, 2009 10:29 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

sadly, Guzman's trade value (as a player, not a contract) will never be higher...

and the Nats will once again sit on their hands and let themselves be fooled that the player is a better value to them than someone else.

it’s this franchise’s greatest liability, and i’m beginning to think it stemmed from ownership, not the general manager’s office.

though, if the rumors that Bowden still has Mark Lerner’s ear all the way from California are true, then withdraw my previous statement.

Your voice of doom and gloom. Read more at natsnewsnetwork.blogspot.com

by Dave at Nats News Network on Aug 11, 2009 12:05 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

In this case, I don’t think there was any hand-sitting. The waiver claim didn’t happen, and Guzman cleared waivers, so nobody wants him (at least at this point, there may have been interest before the deadline). In the past, maybe, but not now.

Also, where have you seen that Bowden stuff? That’s terrible!

by John Quinn on Aug 11, 2009 12:32 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Just because he cleared waivers doesn't mean that nobody wants him

It most likely means that nobody wants him for the full terms of the contract he’s owed. By clearing waivers, he’s now eligible to be traded to any team with the stipulation that other parts of a deal (most specifically, cash considerations) can be moved with him. The likelihood is that the Nats would have to eat some of the deal to get a solid prospect or two, which wouldn’t be such a bad thing.

by bluelineswinger on Aug 11, 2009 2:56 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Maybe I should just stop trying to convert others to my way of thinking

Since that’s probably how most of you are reading it. We’ll just have to agree to disagree.

My opinion, in a nutshell:

- The eight game winning streak has been nice, but the Nats are not close to fielding a consistent, long-term winner. There are too many holes on this club right now, and the addition of one or two nice free agent signings heading towards next season aren’t going to change that enough to make a difference.

- Guzman is, at this point, an average to slightly above average player who is on a hot streak right now. His production at this point in time is superior to what we’ve seen in the past, and it’s superior to what we can expect to see (even in the not so distant) in the future. He’s shiny right now…. at his peak value to teams that are more competitive than the Nats are. That means that someone is going to be willing to give up something of (presumably long-term) value for him.

- My belief is that when some of the Nats’ core of prospects have matured enough to possibly be ready to contribute to a winner (along with some of the current members of the team), Guzman is going to be past his prime both offensively and defensively. It’s my belief that statistics show that Guzman is already past his prime in terms of defense because of some of the inadequacies he’s shown with the glove this season.

- I would trade the current eight game winning streak for a team that would be more likely to be competitive two years from now in a heartbeat. This would not always be the case, but when you’re 40-72, I simply don’t see how an eight game win streak makes much of a difference. I understand the fan who would like to see some wins, and see them now. However, there’s not really any significant difference in the wider spectrum of things between a 60 win team (still probably a bit on the hopeful side…. that would require going .400 the rest of the way, which is better than the Nats’ current win %) and a 55 win team. Neither is making the playoffs, and neither is even really hoping to finish anywhere outside of last place in their division.

Are five wins this season more important than an opportunity to add five wins in a year where the Nats have had enough of their prospects mature enough to be about a .500 team?

A fanpost last night mentioned the Pirates’ model. What many of you fail to notice is that the Nationals are indeed following the old Pirates model (most notably, the model used by their previous GM, Dave Littlefield). There’s a reason that the Pirates are on their way to a record eighteenth straight losing season. You don’t put lipstick on a pig and turn it into a beauty queen!

The Pirates tried that model for years. They would consistently have two or three above average players (for the Nats view, see: Dunn, Zimmerman, etc.) and try to sprinkle in a couple of modest free agent signings per season to see if maybe the addition of one or two average players that they hoped would have an outlier type of season could help take them over that .500 mark. Their new regime (led by new GM Neal Huntington) was sick of seeing the lipstick on a pig approach, and decided it was time to blow it up. It may take a couple of years, but at least they’re trying something different from their norm (which, quite obviously, wasn’t working). Whether or not it works, we’ll have to see.

So yeah…. I understand the plight of the fans who were upset with the fact that Guzman was placed on waivers (though, again, more than half the players in MLB will be placed on [and clear] waivers before the end of this month). I understand the plight of the fans who were upset when the Nationals traded Cristian Guzman. I just don’t agree with them.

I’m obviously not convincing many of you, and you certainly aren’t convincing me. We’re just going to have to agree to disagree.

by bluelineswinger on Aug 11, 2009 3:16 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Just to play devil's advocate...

  You and I understand that long-term success should be the goal of any GM, but short-term success is almost as important for Washington due to the Nationals’ rather unique situation. With a relatively new market and a team that had a realistic shot at being the worst team in baseball history, getting wins right now is huge. How can the Nationals, as an organization, sell a solely long-term to plan the ticketbuying public? “Trust us, our team will be the laughingstock of the MLB for three more years, but in 2012 we’ll have a shot. Really!” Who’s going to want to pay to see a team they know has no chance to win? Nobody except the crazies, and there just aren’t enough of them to not worry about short-term success.

  Since this turnaround, I’ve actually seen an increase in interest in my coworkers and DC locals in general. The Nationals don’t need to be a perennial winner like the Yankees (ugh), but having dynamic players (and Guzman is one of them right now) is crucial. He’s being paid way way too much, but that’s not Mike Rizzo’s fault.

  Another reason to be concerned with wins this season is that Mike Rizzo’s job is on the line, and wins only build his case. He should have been hired by now, and I don’t know why he’s still the “acting” GM, but I’m sure it’s hard to think about long-term success when you don’t know where you’ll be come October 5.

by John Quinn on Aug 11, 2009 4:02 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

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