Navigation: Jump to content areas:


Pro Quality. Fan Perspective.
Login-facebook
Around SBN: U.S. Government Shuts Down Streaming Websites

What is an "Ace" and Where Does the Washington Nationals' John Lannan Fit In?


An recent anonymous comment to another blog went something like this:  "The Nats need to go out and find a #1 and #2 type starter so John Lannan can be a No. 3 and win 15 games next year."

That got me to thinking about several things.

1)  If the typical fan of the Washington Nationals thinks a #3 starter should win 15 games a year, no wonder only 15,000 show up to see the Nats play even the good teams.

2)  Why does that same fan automatically use wins to measure...eh, forget it.  One battle at a time.

2)  Just how many 15 game winners are there in the major leagues?

3)  Where does John Lannan fit into that equation?

Star-divide

So I spent a little time on a baseball statistic website that will remain nameless.  Currently, in the N.L. there are exactly five pitchers with 15 or more wins:  Adam Wainwright, STL (18-8), Chris Carpenter, STL (16-4), Jason Marquis, COL (15-11), Josh Johnson, FLA (15-4), Jorge de la Rosa, COL (15-9).   There are six at 14 and six at 13.  With two starts for most pitchers remaining, you have to figure no more than half of those with 13 or more will hit 15.

So we're looking at 11 pitchers -- tops -- to win 15 or more games this season in the National League.  This is consistent with wins totals the last several seasons. 

What does this mean?  Well, to start with, the anonymous commenter was a dope. 

A 15-game winner IS a #1 starter in the N.L..  If there is less than one 15-game winner per team in the league, then that's our "magic number" to look for when describing a #1 starter.  The days of pitchers winning 20 games is, for the most part, a thing of the past.  It happens on occasion (like seeing Haley's comet), but it's not what pitchers should be judged against.

As stated before, I'm not going to get all wonky on the numbers and provide evidence that wins are a lousy way to measure a pitcher's effectiveness.  Lots of others have done it more eloquently that I would.  Go google it -- when you finish reading Federal Baseball, anyway -- if you're still interested and don't want to take my word for it.

The really interesting thing I discovered though, while looking these numbers up, is that of the 17 pitchers with 13 or more wins this season in the N.L., 12 of them come from just five teams:  STL (3), COL (3), ATL (2), SF (2), MIL (2).

So in our equation, we've determined that 15 games won in a season makes you and "Ace", only about half the teams in the league have one (or more).

It's no shock, of course,  to find St. Louis and Colorado in the list of teams with big winners.  They are, after all, two of the four N.L. playoff teams.  And Atlanta and San Fran both have winning records, due largely to the success of their starting pitching.  Again, chicken-and-egg stuff.

So let's bring this back to Lannan.  I'm prefacing all of the rest of this commentary based on the fact that I love John Lannan as a pitcher.  He has a great idea of what he wants to do, stays within himself, and gives everything he's got every time he's on the mound.  At 24, he pitches like he's 34.  In a good way.

The guy is 9-12 in 192.1 IP in 31 starts with a 4.07 ERA.  HIs K rate (3.7 per nine) is the lowest of 82 pitchers in the major leagues with nine or more wins.  It's actually down from last season's 5.8, which is bad but tolerable. 

Lannan's BABIP this season is at .280, which is a little low compared to league average (.299 this season), but right at what he's established as his norm (.277, .272, .280 in his three seasons).  This shows us a pitcher that teams have a tough time "squaring up" on, for the most part.

So the anonymous poster that thinks Lannan is a 15-win pitcher is probably dreaming.  But Lannan's career 108 ERA+ shows he should be a .500 pitcher, capable of sitting at the back of a staff, eat innings, win 10-12 games a year and give your team a chance to win when he's on the mound.  Essentially, he has learned to be Jamie Moyer, 10 years before Moyer himself figured it out in his career.

And it the Nats come through on promises of shoring up their middle infield defense and a full season of Nyjer Morgan patrolling center field?  Maybe, just maybe, Lannan can dream of a winning records, with a couple of breakthrough years like Moyer enjoyed.  But Lannan's got to get his K-rate back up in the 5.5 range like in 2008.

Cause as soft as Moyer was, even he struck out five and a half per nine.

But let's not make Lannan into something he's not, simply because he's the best that the Nats have right now.  Let's just let him be who he is and enjoy watching a guy pitch -- as opposed to throw -- every time he takes the hill.

Comment 38 comments  |  0 recs  | 

Do you like this story?

Comments

Display:

I thought wins and ERA were the only way to judge a pitcher...and maybe WHIP...

(ducks from all the flying objects headed his way)…

Lannan behind Stras, Zim(n) and Detwiler is my vision of the future…

Vivian Jaffe: "Have you ever transcended space and time?"
Albert Markovski: "Yes. No. Uh, time, not space... No, I don't know what you're talking about."

by Patrick Reddington on Sep 21, 2009 2:16 PM EDT via mobile reply actions  

Second.

Unfortunately, though, if any of those pitchers want to see 15 wins, the Nats are going to have to do some more work in the bullpen.

by John Quinn on Sep 21, 2009 2:23 PM EDT up reply actions  

and on defense.

Your voice of doom and gloom. Read more at natsnewsnetwork.blogspot.com

by Dave at District Sports Page on Sep 21, 2009 2:32 PM EDT up reply actions  

Aside from the harm MacDougal's done to my nerves...

I think next year’s pen is already better than what DC started the season with this time…Burnett, Storen, Bergmann?…uh…ok now I’m worried again…

As much as I like Desmond too, I wouldn’t be surprised if another MI is brought in…

Vivian Jaffe: "Have you ever transcended space and time?"
Albert Markovski: "Yes. No. Uh, time, not space... No, I don't know what you're talking about."

by Patrick Reddington on Sep 21, 2009 2:42 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions  

Don’t bring Desmond up full-time until he’s ready. We’ve likely ruined half our young pitchers because we did that.

How was Bernadina hitting before he got hurt? I can’t remember.

by RoscoeNats on Sep 21, 2009 3:33 PM EDT up reply actions  

250/400/500, 135 OPS+ w/1 BB, 1 2B, 1/1 SB, 1 K in 5 PA...

Of course, we can’t conclude anything different from 5 PA than if he’d gone 0-5…

However, 2008 was a dreadful 213/300/263, 49 OPS+ w/1 2B, 1 3B, 4/7 SB, 9BB, 21K in 86 PA.

Friend of Dukes and Desmond #3

by Doghouse on Sep 21, 2009 4:02 PM EDT up reply actions  

Bernadina is not a major league player

for as fast as he is, he’s only an average defensive player, and he is much below replacement value with the bat.

Your voice of doom and gloom. Read more at natsnewsnetwork.blogspot.com

by Dave at District Sports Page on Sep 21, 2009 4:18 PM EDT up reply actions  

Desmond is ready. he should be the starting SS next season.

Your voice of doom and gloom. Read more at natsnewsnetwork.blogspot.com

by Dave at District Sports Page on Sep 21, 2009 4:22 PM EDT up reply actions  

But what aboot the Guz's feelings?

Vivian Jaffe: "Have you ever transcended space and time?"
Albert Markovski: "Yes. No. Uh, time, not space... No, I don't know what you're talking about."

by Patrick Reddington on Sep 21, 2009 4:48 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions  

looks like Guz has been eating those feelings

with chocolate sauce.

i’m so sick of the Nats walking on eggshells around that guy.

Your voice of doom and gloom. Read more at natsnewsnetwork.blogspot.com

by Dave at District Sports Page on Sep 21, 2009 4:50 PM EDT up reply actions  

+1 to that

Guz can get stuffed. We need a SS for the future and Desmond plays the game the right way.

Padilla walked into the Nats' clubhouse for the first time and said, "My God. I'm in heaven."

by Mezza on Sep 21, 2009 7:14 PM EDT up reply actions  

FYI -

Today is the last off-day of the season for the Notinals.

by RoscoeNats on Sep 21, 2009 3:34 PM EDT reply actions  

hmm...

Your voice of doom and gloom. Read more at natsnewsnetwork.blogspot.com

by Dave at District Sports Page on Sep 21, 2009 4:14 PM EDT up reply actions  

I hope someone gives Acta a real chance with a real team...

He deserves better than he got here…

Vivian Jaffe: "Have you ever transcended space and time?"
Albert Markovski: "Yes. No. Uh, time, not space... No, I don't know what you're talking about."

by Patrick Reddington on Sep 21, 2009 4:21 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions  

Milton Bradley

Looks like has soured for the Cubs. He plays RF… anyone want to bet that the Nats pick him up cheap as a ‘project’?

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/09/20/AR2009092001780.html

Padilla walked into the Nats' clubhouse for the first time and said, "My God. I'm in heaven."

by Mezza on Sep 21, 2009 7:34 PM EDT reply actions  

Not a chance, Rizzo won't be fooled by Bradley...

Vivian Jaffe: "Have you ever transcended space and time?"
Albert Markovski: "Yes. No. Uh, time, not space... No, I don't know what you're talking about."

by Patrick Reddington on Sep 21, 2009 7:34 PM EDT up reply actions  

Bowden would have...

Would have bet the house on it…its a classic Bowden move of picking up a problem player and trying to make him good again.

Padilla walked into the Nats' clubhouse for the first time and said, "My God. I'm in heaven."

by Mezza on Sep 21, 2009 7:48 PM EDT up reply actions  

They entertained the idea this winter, I came across MLB.com articles to that effect yesterday while looking back on early '09...

Vivian Jaffe: "Have you ever transcended space and time?"
Albert Markovski: "Yes. No. Uh, time, not space... No, I don't know what you're talking about."

by Patrick Reddington on Sep 21, 2009 8:43 PM EDT up reply actions  

Lol, that would be right.

Just browsing through Heymans FA class – there are some decent relief pitchers around too (Soriano). You’d have to think the Nats need 3 genuine Free Agents this summer… Starter, middle infield and relief pitcher of note. Anything less is a disaster.

I also note that Hudson was benched by Belliyard! and is now having to watch him play…kinda makes me think about whether he is the best option for the middle infield next year.

Padilla walked into the Nats' clubhouse for the first time and said, "My God. I'm in heaven."

by Mezza on Sep 21, 2009 8:58 PM EDT up reply actions  

Hudson has been dreadful with the glove this season!

Belliard is better than we gave him credit for defensively. Once he played everyday at second his stats showed him average to slightly above with the glove. And some days he can really hit a fastball. I can easily see why he is playing over Hudson.

"What you know is often the enemy of what you can learn" Bill James

by PhDBrian on Sep 21, 2009 9:03 PM EDT up reply actions  

BOWDEN!!

Friend of Dukes and Desmond #3

by Doghouse on Sep 21, 2009 9:45 PM EDT up reply actions  

Maybe we get Belli back?

Just seems a step the wrong way… we really need Desmond at SS and maybe move Guz to 2B as advertised or look at making a trade for a 2B. I think grabbing a 30+ year old 2B isnt going to make us playoff contenders for years to come. Hudson is ageing.

Padilla walked into the Nats' clubhouse for the first time and said, "My God. I'm in heaven."

by Mezza on Sep 21, 2009 10:11 PM EDT up reply actions  

Thought Mr. Ladson's comment that Dunn/Guz on the right side of the infield might not be the best idea was interesting...

Vivian Jaffe: "Have you ever transcended space and time?"
Albert Markovski: "Yes. No. Uh, time, not space... No, I don't know what you're talking about."

by Patrick Reddington on Sep 21, 2009 10:15 PM EDT up reply actions  

Assuming we dont trade Dunn...

I think Guz is still a decent infielder…but 2B might take some of the pressure off the ageing frame…and feet.

Dunn could fetch something on the trade market IMO…although ive grown to like the big guy.

Padilla walked into the Nats' clubhouse for the first time and said, "My God. I'm in heaven."

by Mezza on Sep 21, 2009 10:33 PM EDT up reply actions  

I'd take bradley for the right price.

He really is a great hitter. But the glove is not what it used to be… Hey, he onbased over .380 despite hating where he played. That says something. CUB fans are racist and rude. And bradley had to suffer. We are far more civilized in DC. He would love to play here.

"What you know is often the enemy of what you can learn" Bill James

by PhDBrian on Sep 21, 2009 8:59 PM EDT up reply actions  

I always enjoy your contributions, PhD, but a blanket "CUB fans are racist and rude", is a bit much...

Vivian Jaffe: "Have you ever transcended space and time?"
Albert Markovski: "Yes. No. Uh, time, not space... No, I don't know what you're talking about."

by Patrick Reddington on Sep 21, 2009 9:18 PM EDT up reply actions  

It may have been mentioned but I believe Bradley is on a 3 year contract for over 10 mill a year.

by RoscoeNats on Sep 22, 2009 8:19 AM EDT up reply actions  

You don't want Milton Bradley for the Nats...

really, you don’t. He was supposed to be a changed Bradley who wanted to be with the Cubs when he was signed. He pursued the Cubs according to reports about his signing. His knee was healthy.

Guess what? His knee wasn’t healthly after all. Personality different? No. Got suspended earlier in the season for arguing with an umpire. Difficultiies with the media all season. Last week’s rude behavior with the media after Thursday’s game and then his weekend interview with the Daily Herald (suburban Chicago newspaper) where he not only complained about the fans, but said he didn’t like his first season with Chicago and also threw his teammates under the bus was the tipping point. Plus, it’s coming out he may have gotten into a heated disagreement with the team’s hitting coach last week too.

He’s still a part of the Cubs, and Reed Johnson, Ryan Dempster, Aramis Ramirez, Ryan Theriot, and Derek Lee are already discussing him with the media and not trying to hide their puzzlement, exasperation and/or bemusement with him. And these are guys who don’t generally go around talking negatively about teammates.

And PhDBrian, while unfortunately there are Cubs fans who are racist and rude (just as all teams probably have those), that isn’t all of us.

"Pinky, are you pondering what I'm pondering?"--The Brain

by brook on Sep 21, 2009 9:05 PM EDT reply actions  

I hear ya

I think we need another ‘project’ player like a 3rd tit. And to be honest, while I was star gazing a bit about Bradley…it is completely out of Rizzo’s character. He’ll be grabbing guys with a good clubhouse fit and the projects are hopefully ended…for good.

Padilla walked into the Nats' clubhouse for the first time and said, "My God. I'm in heaven."

by Mezza on Sep 21, 2009 10:13 PM EDT up reply actions  

Also I think we have soke young starters that wouyld make above average relievers right now.

In the old days young pitchers would be relivers until a spot opened in the rotation. They would learn to get major league hitters out then become starters. I wonder why that went away. It worked with Joba, and somewhat with Price. We should give it a shot with Martis, and a few others.

"What you know is often the enemy of what you can learn" Bill James

by PhDBrian on Sep 21, 2009 9:07 PM EDT reply actions  

I still think we could grab a guy like Soriano

Which would give us 2 genuine options for a closer. I really didnt like the bullpen deal this year. Id rather have to choose between sone good guys for the pen rather than scour around looking for Villone’s of the world to plug gaps. A pickup of Soriano would mean that we could bring in guys like Martis, Storen, etc without the need to perform right away.

Padilla walked into the Nats' clubhouse for the first time and said, "My God. I'm in heaven."

by Mezza on Sep 21, 2009 10:15 PM EDT up reply actions  

OUCH

The five teams in front of them went for college players, considered safer because they are older. The Astros took Nevin out of Cal State Fullerton. The Indians opted for righthander Paul Shuey from North Carolina. The Orioles went for outfielder Jeffrey Hammonds of Stanford. Next up were the Expos, and first-year scouting director Kevin Malone went for lefthander B.J. Wallace from Mississippi State, even though the consensus of most organizations was that Wallace wasn’t healthy.

That’s when Bennett got shocked. The Reds announced they were drafting outfielder Chad Mottola from Central Florida. Bennett at first thought it was an in-house joke.

That left Jeter for the Yankees, who signed him for $800,000—$100,000 more than Nevin received from the Astros, and $175,000 less than Hammonds received from the Orioles.

So it wasn’t about money. It was about having faith in scouts. It was about trusting the judgment and work ethic of the men who are paid to evaluate and recommend talent.

http://www.baseballamerica.com/today/majors/column/2009/268905.html

by RoscoeNats on Sep 22, 2009 10:14 AM EDT reply actions  

Comments For This Post Are Closed


User Tools

Welcome to the SB Nation's blog about the Washington Nationals. Federalbaseball.com Trying To Make Every Fan A Nationals' Fan.

FanPosts

Community blog posts and discussion.

Recent FanPosts

Small
Potential CF trade targets
Coverphoenix_small
Stupidly Early Projections for 2012 Playoffs
Stan_frown_small
19 Year Olds Stink
Small
The Next great Japanese pitcher
Small
Does Lannan deserve "credit" for some of his unearned runs?
Small
Looking into a foggy crystal ball
Small
Another Move Besides Fielder
Small
Signing Fielder Means the End of Morse's time in DC
Orange_moon_at_nationals_park_small
If Nats Were Hall of Famers (or Future Hall of Famers)
Small
Salary Cap Dynasty League Openings

+ New FanPost All FanPosts >

GAMETHREAD SPONSOR

Masn_medium


Ministry of Peace

Rizzo__kasten_and_chigliak_small Patrick Reddington

Ministry of Truth: Records Department (Editor)

Ws1_small Winston Smith

Ministry of Plenty

Teddy_clip_small Doghouse

Banner_small Dave at District Sports Page

Youppi_040618_mon_a_small bluelineswinger