Nationals Daily Evolutions 12/20/10
by David Huzzard on Dec 20, 2010 11:01 AM EST
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PrintThe Brewers are a better team today than they were on Friday, and the Royals are still the Royals. They are loaded with prospects, but there is a difference between prospects and players. Every team has prospects, and the Royals could probably have gotten more in return if they had waited. --Joe Posnanski at si.com
A further review of the prospects the Royals received. --Marc Hulet from fangraphs.com
On his way to the Brewers Greinke made sure to take a detour and flip off the Nationals, but it might not be all bad. --Adam Kilgore at washingtonpost.com
Hanging onto players like Espinosa and Storen could help the Nationals in the future. --Ben Goessling at masnsports.com
Of course Greinke might have come to the Nationals if Cliff Lee didn't go to the Phillies. I like cheesesteaks, tasty cakes, and cream cheese as much as the next guy, but I am really starting to hate the city they come from. --Phil Wood from masnsports.com
The signing of Werth might not have changed the perception of the Nationals as losers as much as everyone thought. --Nate at nats3play.com
One other problem that they franchise faces is a disloyal fan base*. --Maury Brown at bizofbaseball.com
*In my opinion the people of D.C. don't like to be told they are disloyal. This type of thing should be spread among the major publications that cover the Nationals and become a sort of fan bulletin board material. Remember when Buster Onley predicted the Nationals to lose 140 game?
A look at how the Nationals are doing in the Winter leagues. --Sue Dinem from nationalsprospects.com
Slightly further in depth look at Jesus Flores, Wilson Ramos, Yunesky Maya, Henry Rodriguez, and Elvin Ramirez. --Ben Goessling at masnsports.com
For now the Nationals still have a giant hole at first base, and with LaRoche still sitting on a 3 year offer from the Orioles the Nationals options might be dwindling. --Adam Kilgore from washingtonpost.com
The Nationals might not mind losing out on LaRoche as Derrek Lee is their number one target. --Bill Ladson from nationals.com
Jayson Werth says he is very excited to be a National. --mlb.com
He isn't the only one professing excitement as Collin Balester is excited about the upcoming season. --Collin Balester via Twitter
Jayson Werth is known for his family history and his dedication to healthy living. With this combination he hopes to play into his 40's. --Byron Kerr at masnsports.com
Matt Stairs is already in his 40's and is ready to start swinging the lumber again. --Nick Cafardo at boston.com
The Nats have signed Chad Gaudin to a minor league deal. --Mark Zuckerman from natsinsider.com
And Matt Antonelli. --Matt Antonelli at matthewantonelli.com
The Nationals rotation is full of question marks, but not all questions are answered in the negative and it could be a year full of proving doubters wrong. --Pete Kerzel from masnsports.com
The only thing that is certain about the Nationals rotation is that Strasburg won't be a part of it until at least September if he heals quickly, but he did have the best game of the year last season. --Bill Ladson at nationals.com
If the rotation has a good chance to be terrible it is important for a team to have two things. A good bullpen that can go four innings nightly and guys in the field that can catch the ball. The Nationals might have the first one in good order. --Ben Goessling at masnsports.com
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Seems we are moving from former Phillies to former Braves, can Troy Glaus at first base be far behind? Or Cantu for former Marlins? Or Delgado for former Mets? Derrek Lee certainly fits the former Braves as well.
The wait for 10/7 begins. This man is focused. Are you?
by souldrummer on Dec 20, 2010 11:49 AM EST up reply actions
What? Was Ryan Church no longer available? Yea….that was sarcasm. I can’t find a reason to be excited about Ankiel.
by sullyzz on Dec 20, 2010 12:45 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
I'd rather have Rick Ankiel and Matt Stairs as bench bats than Willie Harris and Adam Kennedy
And having lefty bench bats makes sense if your lineup is heavily right-handed.
Kennedy should not have been a bench player…..he should have been the starting 2B. I don’t see Stairs and Ankiel an upgrade at all, unless Ankiel is better than the best season he has ever had, and Stairs has discovered the fountain of youth.
by sullyzz on Dec 20, 2010 1:10 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Ankiel: .254/.323/.462 vs. RHP
Harris: .246/.334/.360 vs. RHP
by David Huzzard on Dec 20, 2010 1:14 PM EST up reply actions
2008
…was really his only good year. Not sure what we hope for him at this point. The way I see it, however, is this is the final move that completely ends any idea of signing LaRoche and this shows a commitment to signing Derek Lee to play 1st base for the Nationals.
When healthy and facing a righty, they may figure they can slide Ankiel in to the 5th or 6th spot because of his reasonable pop. Again that is optimistic in that he’ll regain any form similar to 2008. But I think this is their answer to the left-handed pop in the lineup. At least for a year, or until he gets hurt in May.
People ask me what I do in winter when there's no baseball. I'll tell you what I do. I stare out the window and wait for spring. ~Rogers Hornsby
I wasn't a fan of Kennedy's, but if it makes you feel better
I’d rather have Rick Ankiel and Matt Stairs as bench bats than Willie Harris and Kevin Mensch.
Better?
I'd rather have Rick Ankiel and Matt Stairs as bench bats than Willie Harris and Adam Kennedy
And having lefty bench bats makes sense if your lineup is heavily right-handed.
Could we see an Ankiel/Morse platoon in LF?
Not factoring in Werth, who’s obviously playing fulltime, you’ve got a 4-man playing time battle between Morgan, Bernadina, Ankiel, and Morse. All but Morse are LHB.
Assuming somebody outside the org is 1B, I could see a Morse/Ankiel platoon in LF, Bernie in center, and of course Werth in right with Nyjer on the bench/traded.
Lots of money for a bench-ish guy, but then the non-DH OF market was scorched earth outside of CrawWerth and the FA market is going crazy anyway.
They aren't going to put Bernie in center
I think Ankiel and Werth have greater chances of playing center than Nyjer does.
The wait for 10/7 begins. This man is focused. Are you?
From whom? Unless it’s Rizzo, not one hundred percent sure that I trust it. And if they’re competing for LF and Morse isn’t mentioned, then they are already considering Morse for 1B. Just curious where you found it.
The wait for 10/7 begins. This man is focused. Are you?
quote from Ladson
Ankiel is considered an excellent defensive outfielder with speed. He will compete against Roger Bernadina for the job in left field. The source also indicated that Washington has not ruled out Ankiel competing against Nyjer Morgan in center field.
If he wins either job, Ankiel will be in a platoon situation, most likely with Michael Morse.
So, something like
Bernie-Ankiel-Werth against the RHP and Bernie-Werth-Morse against the LHP?
Bernie isn’t in CF, and Ankiel is platooning, potentially with Morse. Although Bernie-Werth-Morse could be horribad defensively.
I don’t know about either of those outfields, but I think Bernie is an upgrade over Willingham in left, and Werth may not be totally horrible in center, probably better than Bernie was at times when we had him subbing for Nyjer during his suspension.
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Clearly Pos has genuine respect for Greinke
Maybe the Royals are concerned about Greinke’s no trade list. Also, remember that the Royals are saving what, 13.5M each year he’s gone? That’s no small chump change for the Royals, especially if they figure they’re losing already. But yeah, Royals fans should be supporting their minor league franchises, not the big club.
The wait for 10/7 begins. This man is focused. Are you?
They got rid of Yuniesky Betancourt too
They save Yuniesky Betancourt salary $4M for 2011 and $2M for a 2012 buyout minus $2M cash given to the Brewers. So then the Brewer just added a lot of cost. Anyone they may dump to save some salary?
Fan loyalty
is unfortunately a question when tons pay lots of money, spend lots of time traveling, and then leave when they find out Strasburg is hurt and won’t pitch. Hardly saying all fans, but that was a sorry sight…
by William.Hatheway on Dec 20, 2010 11:56 AM EST reply actions
#18 fan loyalty
um, the article suggests we 4th least loyal fanbase in the MLB, in 18th place. The Pirates are 21st, which is apparently last place.. in a league of 21 teams?
I think there are a good number of ties.
by David Huzzard on Dec 20, 2010 12:03 PM EST up reply actions
hmph.. that shouldn’t keep the 30th place team from being in 30th place. Sloppy work on their part in either case, I guess.
as long as we beat the orioles
that sweep by the orioles in june still tastes bitter in my mouth
May the way of the hero lead to the Triforce
Nats should have won 2 of those games. Grrr!!!
Patiently waiting for "next year" since 1971.
by Princess Jazzy on Dec 20, 2010 2:30 PM EST up reply actions
I look forward to Lannan, Chico and Mock proving the haters wrong
May the way of the hero lead to the Triforce
I look forward to Chico and Mock never getting a chance to prove the haters wrong.
Aim for the head baby Jesus
Mock's too talented to count out...
Numbers not in his favor tho admittedly…
Vivian Jaffe: "Have you ever transcended space and time?"
Albert Markovski: "Yes. No. Uh, time, not space... No, I don't know what you're talking about."
by Patrick Reddington on Dec 20, 2010 1:20 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Well you start with Zimm, Marquis, Lannan, and Maya
There is alot of competition for the 5th spot, I don’t know if Mock ever gets a chance, especially is Wang is actually healthy, and of course Detweiler has the advantage of being a lefty.
Aim for the head baby Jesus
don't count out poor Livan before the season even starts..
the fight for the 5th spot is pretty tight, tight enough that even the 4th spot may be up for grabs
She also said, "I can't let go"
Livo is the very best of mediocrity. He’s ours but still he is what he is…
Antonio Salieri?
“Mediocrities everywhere, I absolve you!”
Rob
"People ask me what I do in winter when there's no baseball. I'll tell you what I do. I stare out the window and wait for spring." -- Rogers Hornsby
Nah.
The Mozart model is best personified by Bryce Harper. Young, brash, just chalk full of talent. Just the type that would drive the unskilled but devoted player around the bend.
Rob
"People ask me what I do in winter when there's no baseball. I'll tell you what I do. I stare out the window and wait for spring." -- Rogers Hornsby
Zimm and Marquis are the only ones who should have a spot wrapped up
(and I’m only including Marquis because his salary is so big).
Rob
"People ask me what I do in winter when there's no baseball. I'll tell you what I do. I stare out the window and wait for spring." -- Rogers Hornsby
Wang just has to show some stuff in rehab starts
They’ll probably want to give him a shot once/if he shows he’s healthy. Detwiler and Mock start in Syracuse. This organization showed with Stammen that if you’re a young pitcher and you get off to a hot start at Syracuse good chance you’ll get a shot.
The wait for 10/7 begins. This man is focused. Are you?
Chico's done.
He’ll be lucky to survive the 40-man roster to start at Syracuse.
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Is it because he's not good?
Or is there another reason?
"I throw as hard as I can when I think I have to throw as hard as I can." - Walter Johnson
*Formerly known as Giant Torture
He's tough on the eyes
Watching him walk that high wire and never strike people out while giving up a bunch of contact is not easy on the eyes or the heart.
The wait for 10/7 begins. This man is focused. Are you?
That said
I’m a big fan of Cool Hand, and would like to see him as our fifth starter on that great day when we’re in a pennant race.
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I totally agree, I'm just not ready to throw him completely under the bus.
Plus on a good pennant chasing team would he be your fifth starter. I don’t think so, maybe.
When he came back from Harrisburgh, he was pretty darn good.
If that represents some sort of turningpoint for him, he could be a solid 4th or 5th. If he reverts back to pre-DFA form, then I would agree that he is not long for this team.
by The Herndon Kid on Dec 20, 2010 6:34 PM EST up reply actions
Fan Loyalty....
I have long stated that the fans are one of the wink links, but it is not nearly as bad as some folks think. Last year, attendance was at it’s worst since the Nats have been here, but we still average over 22K per game, which is better than about 7 or 8 other teams. The trick to ALL DC sports teams, WIN and the city loves you…..lose and the city loathes you. I have always believed the Nats to be a sleeping giant, even before Ted said the same thing about the Wiz. 9th largest MLB market, one of MLBs richest owners, and a fanbase of wild, crazy fans (IF you win), and the nicest sports venue (stadium) in town….and the Navy Yard area will rock when complete.
by sullyzz on Dec 20, 2010 12:56 PM EST via mobile reply actions
It's not just winning
The Nats need to get into the “hope” category. You know, hope, when at the beginning of the season, non-insane fans can say, if this guy comes along and that guy plays back to form this team has a chance to make the playoffs where anything can happen. Even if the team goes on to lose 90 games, if they begin from that place it’s at least June before people start giving up on the team. That’s step one though, step two is actually being involved in a pennant race, but the Nationals need to get considerably better at drafting and developing pitching, because it’s becoming less and less available and more and more expensive on the open market.
"I throw as hard as I can when I think I have to throw as hard as I can." - Walter Johnson
*Formerly known as Giant Torture
This year’s draft was a start. Certainly a lot of interest in the lower minors this year with Ray and Cole.
The wait for 10/7 begins. This man is focused. Are you?
Interest in the low minors
doesn’t translate into hope at the ML level. At all. The former is for the obsessed. The latter is for the casual fan.
Rob
"People ask me what I do in winter when there's no baseball. I'll tell you what I do. I stare out the window and wait for spring." -- Rogers Hornsby
Was referring to this part of the comment solely
the Nationals need to get considerably better at drafting and developing pitching, because it’s becoming less and less available and more and more expensive on the open market.
I’m not delusional enough to believe that anything but the Werth, Willingham, Dunn, plus another signing version of this team would get anything like buzz going on in this city preseason. Talk radio doesn’t say, “Wow! Danny Espinosa is coming back!”
The wait for 10/7 begins. This man is focused. Are you?
I think its also about playing good baseball
The type of baseball the team has been playing the last few years has been ugly – lots of Es, bad defense, pitchers who blow up during an inning and an offense that was unable to spark. So im more inclined to think that if the team plays solid ball that people will be more willing to watch it.
Ian Desmond is my hero!
9:30am (Tuesday).
Did you see the Australian Baseball League is back in action…I havent got to a game yet but some of it looks fun (despite the 20-3 whopping my team got last night).
http://web.theabl.com.au/index.jsp
Just $12 for a game which by Oz sports standards is cheap.
Ian Desmond is my hero!
Hmm. looks like Canberra is struggling this season...
just remember, wait until next year!
"Pinky, are you pondering what I'm pondering?"--The Brain
Nats sign minor leaguers:
@NatsTownNews: Nationals ATTs: RHPs Joe Bisenius, Ryan Mattheus & Tim Wood, 1B Michael Aubrey, INF Brian Bixler & OFs Jeff Frazier & Jonathan Van Every.
Vivian Jaffe: "Have you ever transcended space and time?"
Albert Markovski: "Yes. No. Uh, time, not space... No, I don't know what you're talking about."
by Patrick Reddington on Dec 20, 2010 1:19 PM EST via mobile reply actions
I know someone here wanted Nats to jump on Van Every...
Vivian Jaffe: "Have you ever transcended space and time?"
Albert Markovski: "Yes. No. Uh, time, not space... No, I don't know what you're talking about."
by Patrick Reddington on Dec 20, 2010 1:22 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
I’m not overly excited about Michael Aubrey, but at least he’s a left handed first baseman. Had a decent little cup of joe with the Orioles last year. Probably won’t develop into much more than a reserve, but at least it’s some depth for AAA.
by Andrew Davidson on Dec 20, 2010 2:03 PM EST up reply actions
Ryan Mattheus not minor league?
@masnBen: #Nats PR staff corrects Ryan Mattheus’ deal — it’s actually a major league contract.
That would just mean that he’s on the 40-man roster if it’s a major league deal. Curious to see what’s up with that.
The wait for 10/7 begins. This man is focused. Are you?
If that’s true, somebody had to get booted from the 40-man. I’d like to know what the corresponding move was.
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41 on the 40 man roster?
They had a empty spot before they traded Willingham and signed Wang.
Roster move coming acc to Nats, MASN's Goessling...
Vivian Jaffe: "Have you ever transcended space and time?"
Albert Markovski: "Yes. No. Uh, time, not space... No, I don't know what you're talking about."
by Patrick Reddington on Dec 20, 2010 8:34 PM EST up reply actions
Forgot about this
We got him for Joe Beimel and he pitched at instructs and Vermont after recovering from Tommy John surgery. They must have seen enough of his recovery to believe that he’s ahead of some of the other 40-man hangers on.
The wait for 10/7 begins. This man is focused. Are you?
Pavano's options dwindling
per mlbtraderumor – Pavano appears to be down to the Twins and Nationals, unless the Pirates jump in.
also:
•Free agent first baseman Derrek Lee seeks $8-10MM, tweets Rosenthal. That’d fall in the range of Lance Berkman and Carlos Pena, he notes. Rosenthal says the Padres probably can’t afford Lee at that price but it’s not necessarily too high for the Nationals.
Double ughs
We’re competing with the Pirates for free agents now?
And, yes, the Nats can afford Lee at 10 mill, but that doesn’t mean they should sign Lee at 10 mill.
Rob
"People ask me what I do in winter when there's no baseball. I'll tell you what I do. I stare out the window and wait for spring." -- Rogers Hornsby
I say 5-6 mil with a heavily incentive-laden contract. D Lee ain't what he used
to be and IMHO he is asking for a lot of coin after a couple of sub-par years.
Patiently waiting for "next year" since 1971.
by Princess Jazzy on Dec 20, 2010 2:27 PM EST up reply actions
That is probably about what is being offered. I would not expect him to be in his 2009 form, but I think he will be better than last year, when he was reportedly bothered by his thumb injury. Healthy, I would expect a .280 or better average and 25+ HRs.
by sullyzz on Dec 20, 2010 2:32 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Agreed. If he could put up the numbers you suggest, he would
be a great addition to the Nats.
Patiently waiting for "next year" since 1971.
by Princess Jazzy on Dec 20, 2010 2:39 PM EST up reply actions
I think Lee is worth 8mil for one year…and maybe even 2. Webb and Lee, and let’s get on to Spring Training!
by sullyzz on Dec 20, 2010 2:27 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
I think Lee would be a great signing, I just hope Rizzo gets it done at the
right price and like I said give him the potential to earn more if he reverts back to his old form, I wouldn’t pay it up front.
Patiently waiting for "next year" since 1971.
by Princess Jazzy on Dec 20, 2010 2:29 PM EST up reply actions
I know I am in the minority......
But I still view Lee as one of the elite 1B in MLB.
by sullyzz on Dec 20, 2010 2:38 PM EST via mobile reply actions
He's still one the best defensive first basemen currently playing....
believe me, he’s worth something for his glove work alone. I’m also of the opinion if his thumb injury is fully healed, he’ll have a better hitting season than 2010.
"Pinky, are you pondering what I'm pondering?"--The Brain
Brandon Webb update
Ladson tweets that we’re last place atm in the race to sign Webb, behind the Cubs and the Rangers. Mystery team not mentioned.
That…..is depressing. I figured we were the team to beat for his signature.
by sullyzz on Dec 20, 2010 2:49 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
While it's upsetting, I'm still holding out hope that Rizzo can get some kind of deal for a
good pitcher without injury issues. Just hope we don’t give up Espinosa and Storen. I really like those guys.
Patiently waiting for "next year" since 1971.
by Princess Jazzy on Dec 20, 2010 3:10 PM EST up reply actions
I'm in this line
Also, VCU Football, still undefeated!
"I throw as hard as I can when I think I have to throw as hard as I can." - Walter Johnson
*Formerly known as Giant Torture
GMU is always talking about adding football
and the CAA is the top conference in the old 1-AA, VCU would be a great place for a team.
Aim for the head baby Jesus
VCU?
You live in Richmond? Or an alum? I got my teaching cert. there …
Oh, and as for Lannan, it is totally out of left field for me (and “hate” is way too strong); I think I have lingering ill-will because when the Nats first came to town he was touted as their “ace” in waiting for a couple of years, so I’d go see him play, and he was terrifying to watch but without “ace-ness”. Not his fault at all, and quite frankly without reason on my part, but I just wrinkle my nose when I hear his name…
by William.Hatheway on Dec 20, 2010 9:41 PM EST up reply actions
I think your reply was to PigPen, but in any case, I happen to be a VCU alum, as is my son.
As for John Lannan goes, no way I ever thought him an ace, nor do I think anyone else around here thought so… he was labeled the Nats #1, because, through no fault of his own, at the start of 2010, he happened to be the best pitcher on a horrible staff.
I like him because he’s makes the most of his limited physical abilities… a crafty lefty, as they say, at best… the kind of pitcher that will, against all odds, win a big ball game and can throw a mean cream pie to boot.
(Plus I like seeing his mother rooting for him in the stands!).
I live in Richmond
But am also a VCU alum. Having watched Lannan pitch, he seems to fall into the crafty veteran category, but just isn’t that crafty. I don’t think he’s even a fifth starter on a good team, but I see your point about the expectations of being an “ace”. I think Livan would have/is a better choice to fit that bill because he’s had a lot more success at the big league level. However, if Zimmermann can bounce back, I think at this point he’s got the highest ceiling of any of the pitchers currently on the Nationals staff for 2011.
"I throw as hard as I can when I think I have to throw as hard as I can." - Walter Johnson
*Formerly known as Giant Torture
Another Reason to Sign Lee
Derrick Lee and Jayson Werth is a slam dunk upgrade over the Dunn/Hammer Combo.
by sullyzz on Dec 20, 2010 2:47 PM EST via mobile reply actions
Slam dunk?
I’m not sure how you are measuring this, but I would assert that by most measures of power and patience, the Dunn/Willingham pair are going to well outperform Werth/Lee in 2011. HR, OBP, WAR, OPS, BB, …
Rob
"People ask me what I do in winter when there's no baseball. I'll tell you what I do. I stare out the window and wait for spring." -- Rogers Hornsby
If Werth and Lee don't significantly outperform Dunn and Hammer
the Nats are in some huge trouble with Werth’s contract.
Of course, you have to factor in defense and DH penalties, but they should be a massive upgrade.
Rats! Twinkies picked up Chuck James
Would have liked to see him get a shot at Syracuse. He pitched well for Harrisburg.
The wait for 10/7 begins. This man is focused. Are you?
Manny Acta just can't get enough Kearns.
He’s back in Cleveland!
The wait for 10/7 begins. This man is focused. Are you?
He was SO talented as a prospect and as a rookie
what he turned into is just hard to look at.
Aim for the head baby Jesus
Dodgers fan blog takes a look at Morse
sees he’s the odd man out, wonders if he’s worth a trade
speculation, not a rumor
Eh
Rizzo likes Morse. He just doesn’t like him enough to give him 600 at bats. I don’t think we’d even trade Morse for Loney straight up at this point, which might be about the only move that would make even slight sense.
The wait for 10/7 begins. This man is focused. Are you?
I would make that trade
if I were the Dodgers’ GM anyway.
Rob
"People ask me what I do in winter when there's no baseball. I'll tell you what I do. I stare out the window and wait for spring." -- Rogers Hornsby
Which means that you would hope that the Nats would keep Morse, which means that he is now as good as gone!
The wait for 10/7 begins. This man is focused. Are you?
Oh yeah.. Ooops.
I meant to say “Please resign Kevin Mench!”
Rob
"People ask me what I do in winter when there's no baseball. I'll tell you what I do. I stare out the window and wait for spring." -- Rogers Hornsby
O-dog to the Padres
Seems like a good move for them, although I’m not totally sure of their roster. Doesn’t that give them both Bartlett and O-dog? Seems like a nice step up from Eckstein and Tejada.
The wait for 10/7 begins. This man is focused. Are you?
Payroll hits $53 million (plus 1st base)
I added Ankiel, replacing Ramos on the bench for now.
Count another $2 million spent if you think Wang is going to have a solid year.
That leaves $6-8 million unspent to match last year’s spending. More if you go with the opening day payroll number.
At least fans can get value
because on a typically slow night, they tend to let you move to wherever you want past the third inning or so… I can handle a cheapish product if my $10 seat gets me 15 rows behind first base… otherwise, those prices can really be tough to stomach.
by William.Hatheway on Dec 20, 2010 9:45 PM EST up reply actions
Don't forget the lunar eclipse tonight!
The last full lunar eclipse on the Winter Solstice is believe to have occurred in the 14th Century.
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