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Nationals Daily Evolutions 12/6/10

Last night I sat down to read and thought I would just check my phone real quick to see if Adrian Gonzalez was going to be traded or not, and boom. Jayson Werth is a National. Very, very surprising. --Peter Gammons from mlb.com

Opposing GMs are not happy about this deal as the Nationals just blew up the market. --Jeff Passan at yahoosports.com

The most important item from this column on Werth is the Nationals might have another surprise move up their sleeves. Suddenly this week got a lot more interesting. --Mark Zuckerman at natsinsider.com

Could the surprise move be Beltre? --Mike Harris (he did break the Werth story) from natslosser.com 

Don't discount the Nationals close relationship with Scott Boras. --Ben Goessling from masnsports.com

Even if you don't like the contract you have to admit it is fun to take something from the Phillies. --WFY at yurasko.net

Don't expect this to be the last big contract the Nationals ever hand out. They would like to keep Zimmerman past 2013 and Harper and Strasburg will come up for free agency some day. --Adam Kilgore from washingtonpost.com

This was already posted once here, but if you didn't see it this contract is an overpay, but not as bad as some people are making it out to be. --Dave Cameron at fangraphs.com

With Werth in the fold it is now even more likely that Willingham is on the move*. --Bill Ladson from nationals.com  

*I had a thought the other day that whatever the Nationals get back for Willingham could be flipped as part of a deal for a starter.

Very sad news about a player a lot of people still like. I know I still hope for Chad Cordero to come back and do well and I hope we can all agree that our thoughts and prays are with the Cordero family with the recent loss of their 3 month old child. This is a terrible time of year to lose a loved one, and the fact that this is a child just makes it that much worse. --Cheryl Nichols at natsnewsnetwork.com      

Star-divide

One thing I am curious about from other fans is does the loss of Dunn still hurt? Also if Dunn didn't make sense for right now then does Werth simply make sense because he is more of a complete hitter and plays defense? I don't have the answers for this, but before the Nationals signed Werth letting Dunn go might have been the right call for the franchise. --Byron Kerr from masnsports.com

All the issues with Adam Dunn the player explained. --Dave Nichols at natsnewsnetwork.com  

Letting Dunn go wasn't that hard to understand, but many people didn't understand why Peralta was non-tendered. --Dave Cameron at fangraphs.com

It turns out that Peralta wanted a two year deal and the Nationals said see you later. --Adam Kilgore from washingtonpost.com

The Nationals beat out the Cubs last off-season for Matt Capps and are trying to do it again for Brandon Webb. --Aaron Gleeman at nbcsports.com

Ian Desmond is being asked about in every trade and with Danny Espinosa the Nationals have the freedom to make a move. --Reed MacPhail at fangraphs.com

As far as a replacement at first goes the Nationals have plenty of options. I would prefer LaRoche, but if they get Pena I will hope for a rebound. --Mac from section409.com

Around the NL East

Domonic Brown struggles in Winter League. --csnphilly.com

General Baseball

Adrian Gonzalez might not have a new deal as of yet, but he is still headed to the Red Sox. --Jon Heyman from si.com

Wow this weekend was busier than expected. I wonder what the Winter Meetings hold. Crazy thought. Can Beltre play second? Maybe signing him would be part of an even bigger deal involving Desmond.       

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Poor chad

what a loss

May the way of the hero lead to the Triforce

by TJL on Dec 6, 2010 11:21 AM EST reply actions  

Heart goes out to Chad and his family

A parent should never have to bury a child.

by d_c_guy on Dec 6, 2010 11:45 AM EST reply actions  

First Jose Theodore

Now this. Hope Chad can make it back to the bigs, find necessary support, and find meaning out of this tragedy.

The wait for 10/7 begins. This man is focused. Are you?

by souldrummer on Dec 6, 2010 11:56 AM EST up reply actions  

Just read the Peralta article and some of the comments

Time and time again I am convinced the people who write these articles know very little about our system. Peralta was good, but he didn’t pitch but so many of the highest leverage innings and he won’t be getting but so many of them again with younger guys with better draft status higher in the pecking order.

Storen/Clippard/Burnett/Balester are all ahead of him at this time and on the back end you’ve got Kimball and Carr and you need 40-man slots for some of the other moves that you want to make.

The wait for 10/7 begins. This man is focused. Are you?

by souldrummer on Dec 6, 2010 12:02 PM EST reply actions  

FYI:

NatsTownNews: Washington Nationals Manager Jim Riggleman will be on with @thomloverro at 12:40 p.m. on “The Sports Fix” on ESPN 980 and espn980.com.

Vivian Jaffe: "Have you ever transcended space and time?"
Albert Markovski: "Yes. No. Uh, time, not space... No, I don't know what you're talking about."

by Patrick Reddington on Dec 6, 2010 12:04 PM EST via mobile reply actions  

+ Phase Two Engage:

RT @NatsTownNews: #Nationals owner Mark Lerner on the Werth deal, and more, in his new blog, Curly W Live – http://bit.ly/1GKSY7

Vivian Jaffe: "Have you ever transcended space and time?"
Albert Markovski: "Yes. No. Uh, time, not space... No, I don't know what you're talking about."

by Patrick Reddington on Dec 6, 2010 12:06 PM EST via mobile up reply actions  

Awwwww

He wants to be a Teddy Leonsis Bear, now!

The wait for 10/7 begins. This man is focused. Are you?

by souldrummer on Dec 6, 2010 12:10 PM EST up reply actions  

Hey, there are worse role models...

Vivian Jaffe: "Have you ever transcended space and time?"
Albert Markovski: "Yes. No. Uh, time, not space... No, I don't know what you're talking about."

by Patrick Reddington on Dec 6, 2010 12:25 PM EST via mobile up reply actions  

Orioles make a move

acquire Mark Reynolds for David Hernandez and Kam Rickolio. Meh.

The wait for 10/7 begins. This man is focused. Are you?

by souldrummer on Dec 6, 2010 12:17 PM EST reply actions  

Heard this before:

@Ken_Rosenthal: Loney a trade option? http://bit.ly/b7JX0U #Cubs #Nationals #Dodgers #MLB

Vivian Jaffe: "Have you ever transcended space and time?"
Albert Markovski: "Yes. No. Uh, time, not space... No, I don't know what you're talking about."

by Patrick Reddington on Dec 6, 2010 12:34 PM EST via mobile reply actions  

He's okay. What would they want?

I wouldn’t really be giving up one of the major prospects for him or anybody currently on the roster. Guys like him are why we need more in the upper minors. If we had somebody who wasn’t on the MLB roster as a 5th overall prospect that the Dodgers would want that’s the kind of guy I’d give up for him.

The wait for 10/7 begins. This man is focused. Are you?

by souldrummer on Dec 6, 2010 12:40 PM EST up reply actions  

Loney, like LaRoche

does not produce enough to be a full-time ML first baseman. 6th lowest n the majors in WAR last year. Fifth lowest the year before. But I’m sure he’s a great defender! (snark!)

Rob

"People ask me what I do in winter when there's no baseball. I'll tell you what I do. I stare out the window and wait for spring." -- Rogers Hornsby

by RobBobS on Dec 6, 2010 1:12 PM EST up reply actions  

I pretty much agree with you on this

He seems slightly better than we want. I could sell you on this. Time for the great John Lannan for James Loney trade!

The wait for 10/7 begins. This man is focused. Are you?

by souldrummer on Dec 6, 2010 1:16 PM EST up reply actions  

Should read "worse" not better

The wait for 10/7 begins. This man is focused. Are you?

by souldrummer on Dec 6, 2010 1:16 PM EST up reply actions  

Finally fired up the twitter.

Relievers? Why are we looking for relievers if we nontendered Peralta? That doesn’t make as much sense to me. Didn’t we learn anything from Bruney?

The wait for 10/7 begins. This man is focused. Are you?

by souldrummer on Dec 6, 2010 12:41 PM EST reply actions  

Deadline fodder!

Fun to sign some reliever to a 1 year deal just to trade him at the deadline to a contender for some spects.

MOAR SPARTACUST. NOW.

by Blicks on Dec 6, 2010 2:04 PM EST up reply actions  

Like I said

If we were going to do this, it’s perplexing to me why we didn’t just bring back Peralta. I guess they don’t feel he has the makeup to close or they are afraid what he could do to the length of games in high leverage closing situations. That was one slow pitcher. Still, he basically replaced Capps production and he was great for us last year.

The wait for 10/7 begins. This man is focused. Are you?

by souldrummer on Dec 6, 2010 2:06 PM EST up reply actions  

Listening to Riggles on 980

“This was part of our plan all along”
“we offered a lot of money to a pitcher who chose to re-sign in Colorado”
“players play, money doesn’t play”
“if you look at all the clubs that contend it keeps coming back to pitching”
“it may come in the form of a guy like Solis who we drafted last year”
“we’ll get a first basemen one way or another”
“we’re getting more athletic on the field”
“i don’t know if there are any more moves that will be made in the outfield”
“i anticipate that willingham will be there”
“nyjer morgan in centerfield”
“morse can play first base also”
“if somebody overwhelms Rizzo for Willingham”

Willingham sounds very much like stubborn Rizzo waiting for awhile. And yet again 980 won’t take calls on a major baseball story.

The wait for 10/7 begins. This man is focused. Are you?

by souldrummer on Dec 6, 2010 12:51 PM EST reply actions  

Loney for Willingham?

We kicked the tires on Loney. Does filling a first base hole with a younger player from the left hand side make sense? Seems like comparable salary to me with Loney due 4.5-5M

The wait for 10/7 begins. This man is focused. Are you?

by souldrummer on Dec 6, 2010 12:54 PM EST reply actions  

I really think that's a horrible deal.

I don’t think Loney is better than the guys who are perennially available on the free agent market: guys like Adam LaRoche, Derrek Lee, etc. I just don’t see where Loney has any trade value whatsoever. His arb salary isn’t really cheaper than the others.

Willingham should fetch, at the minimum, what the A’s gave up for DeJesus, but most likely, if RZO plays his hand right, more than what DeJesus got due to timing of the deal (time it after market explodes) and the increased market value of a win being effectively set in stone.

Mazzaro and Marks is worth a lot more than James Loney.

MOAR SPARTACUST. NOW.

by Blicks on Dec 6, 2010 2:21 PM EST up reply actions  

Riggleman on '11 OF:

#Nats’ Jim Riggleman on ESPN 980 says he expects Willingham, Morgan and Werth will be Nats’ OF in 2011…

Thanks for quick take, SD.

Vivian Jaffe: "Have you ever transcended space and time?"
Albert Markovski: "Yes. No. Uh, time, not space... No, I don't know what you're talking about."

by Patrick Reddington on Dec 6, 2010 12:57 PM EST via mobile reply actions  

Just bothers me those knuckleheads don't take calls.

At least they are doing a couple of Caps segments now on the Sportsfix. Problem for me is that they never take calls on non-Redskins issues.

The wait for 10/7 begins. This man is focused. Are you?

by souldrummer on Dec 6, 2010 1:00 PM EST up reply actions  

I'll just put updates here til I get 10 minutes to type something up:

mlbtraderumors: Nationals, Cubs, Brewers Inquired On James Loney http://bit.ly/h2uVOu #mlb

Vivian Jaffe: "Have you ever transcended space and time?"
Albert Markovski: "Yes. No. Uh, time, not space... No, I don't know what you're talking about."

by Patrick Reddington on Dec 6, 2010 1:01 PM EST via mobile up reply actions  

According to Ladson

Dodgers asked for Desmond and Zimmermann.

by David Huzzard on Dec 6, 2010 1:23 PM EST up reply actions  

Pass the weed.

The wait for 10/7 begins. This man is focused. Are you?

by souldrummer on Dec 6, 2010 1:24 PM EST up reply actions  

this

a little of what Ned’s smoking would really help right now.

MOAR SPARTACUST. NOW.

by Blicks on Dec 6, 2010 2:05 PM EST up reply actions  

Not a chance LA. Ladson says no too:

mlbtraderumors: RT @washingnats: The #Dodgers want #Nats SS Ian Desmond and RHP Jordan Zimmermann for James Loney. Don’t think that’s going to happen.

Vivian Jaffe: "Have you ever transcended space and time?"
Albert Markovski: "Yes. No. Uh, time, not space... No, I don't know what you're talking about."

by Patrick Reddington on Dec 6, 2010 1:25 PM EST via mobile up reply actions  

That's just crazy talk

I would give them Nyjer Morgan for Loney though.

Rob

"People ask me what I do in winter when there's no baseball. I'll tell you what I do. I stare out the window and wait for spring." -- Rogers Hornsby

by RobBobS on Dec 6, 2010 3:06 PM EST up reply actions  

Phillies interested in FAILcoeur?

Now if it’s Werth departure and the Dominic Brown’s struggles in Winter Ball lead the Fightin’s to consider Francoeur for right field that would make the deal even sweeter for me. Francoeur is barely an MLB player.

The wait for 10/7 begins. This man is focused. Are you?

by souldrummer on Dec 6, 2010 1:03 PM EST reply actions  

He's still in baseball?

Come on, people. OBP is even on the scoreboards these days.

"And everybody lived happily ever after. Except the Phillies and the Mets. The End." --Sasskuash
Friend of Dukes and Desmond #3

by Doghouse on Dec 6, 2010 2:34 PM EST up reply actions  

what's an OBP?

Your voice of doom and gloom. Read more at natsnewsnetwork.blogspot.com

by Dave at District Sports Page on Dec 7, 2010 10:47 AM EST up reply actions  

Not liking that

Braves are interested in Lorenzo Cain. Sounds like a guy we’d want if we actually had pitching prospects. Really hope that more of our 4/5 guys pan out this year so we can move them for some at least halfway decent prospects.

The wait for 10/7 begins. This man is focused. Are you?

by souldrummer on Dec 6, 2010 1:12 PM EST reply actions  

Pirates sign Olsen.

Goodbye and good riddance. Have fun with Hanrahan.

The wait for 10/7 begins. This man is focused. Are you?

by souldrummer on Dec 6, 2010 1:43 PM EST reply actions  

ouch

May the way of the hero lead to the Triforce

by TJL on Dec 6, 2010 2:10 PM EST up reply actions  

He was a pretty good set-up guy in DC, too

It was just as a closer that he was disastrously awful. It was his performance as a set-up guy that had the Nats thinking they could try him as closer.

by d_c_guy on Dec 7, 2010 11:47 AM EST up reply actions  

That wasn't sarcastic

I think I’ve said elsewhere that I think over the full duration of the contracts I like Hanrahan more than Burnett. It’s just Hanrahan was so awful during that stretch it was kind of necessary to give him a change of scenery.

The wait for 10/7 begins. This man is focused. Are you?

by souldrummer on Dec 7, 2010 12:50 PM EST up reply actions  

peaked late

Werth all of a sudden at30 looked like the real deal, is he a late bloomer who will stay around or someone who will have a very short lived career.
I think he was werth the long contract. I would mayeb front load this type of contractas a GM soif he burns out in 3 seasons we are not holding onto such a high $$$ contract. he becomes more movable, even cutable.

if I were GM- years 1-4 at $20 million= $80 million
year 5 at $18, 6 at $16= $114million

only $12 million in year 7. so if he becomes old we trade him and pay a smaller amount of his salary.

same type of deal with Lee

Any task BIG or small, Do it well or not at all

by Rickfansince76 on Dec 7, 2010 5:42 PM EST reply actions  

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