Nationals News: Will D.C. Ever Love the Nats?
by John Quinn on Apr 30, 2010 12:02 PM EDT
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PrintWill the Nats ever be as popular in DC as the Caps? My feeling is that they will be, as soon as they start winning.
Bill Ladson answers some more questions, and sits down with Pudge Rodriguez.
Livan Hernandez has a FIP of 5.05, so he should get hit hard pretty soon, but is still finding ways to produce in the majors. Also, he's apparently a very good golfer.
Bleacher Report runs down the changes Tyler Clippard made while transitioning from a starter to a reliever.
Capitol Punishment says that the biggest difference between this year and last has been the bullpen, particularly Clipp and Save.
Despite reports of Bryce Harper's questionable character, the Nationals don't seem to be concerned.
Ben Goessling looks back at the series against the Cubs.
Emilie Cole guides us on a tour up to Harrisburg for Strasburg's Sunday start, stopping at a number of brewpubs.
Although Ivan Rodriguez's bat is almost guaranteed to cool off in the near future, he has still been a driving force for the newly resurgent Nationals.
Around the league...
MLB received an A for racial hiring and a B for gender hiring in a new study released by the University of Central Florida.
A group of protesters chanted "boycott Arizona" at the Cubs game yesterday, in response to an Arizona law that makes it a crime to be in the US illegally. Not to get too political, but right on.
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Don't think it's just that
Will the Nats ever be as popular in DC as the Caps? My feeling is that they will be, as soon as they start winning.
I think one of the issues with the Nats is that not only do they have to deal with the issue of winning, they have to deal with a lack of historical fan infrastructure to help build things and guide the newcomers once they arrive.
I wanted to believe in the Caps after starting to root for them at the end of last season. When I wanted to learn more about them, I bumped into Japers’ Rink which helped me catch up on them and did a good job of providing a structured environment with frequent feedback that was designed to educate fans, stimulate discussion, and create community that made all fans feel part of things. The Caps have an enduring brand because of the history as well as the fan infrastructure and the astute marketing and communication skills of ownership. Not to mention their TV product of the Caps is for me much more watchable that Sunshine Bob (ok), Dribble (godawful and deeducates fans), and Debbie/Ray/Johnny Holiday(awful/ok/notraditional).
The Caps have Laugher in the book providing all of this history and context for what they are doing. Dribble is just spouting Go Nats!!!! and whining about the strike zone.
Really, we’ll know a lot more about the future of the Nats during this season because come June they will have perhaps one of their last opportunities to make a rebrand and a reconnect with a DC market that is very skeptical about their passion to build to the team and their responsiveness in serving the fans and understand that they are not entitled to their dollars if they deliver a winner but can earn the respect of the fans’ dollars in a recession if they understand how responsive they can be to the fans.
It’s so important to acknowledge the responsiveness of ownership in stuff like Ted’s Take and the already established Caps community prior to Ovechkin as important ingredients to their success as well.
Strasburg will be a real referendum on just how much baseball means to the DC market and how adept ownership will be about generating and deepening relationships with fans.
A real American hero...taking down Habs one game at a time
I should also mention that I came to SBN because of Federal Baseball. I think that I joined this site because of the volume and consistency of content and started to enjoy that there were instant feedback with fellow fans in game threads who clearly cared so deeply about the team. Here I found kind of gathering of friends who were generous and open to connect with anyone who shared there interest and concern for the team.
A real American hero...taking down Habs one game at a time
by souldrummer on Apr 30, 2010 12:58 PM EDT up reply actions
My one complaint from day 1 in the new stadium...
Access. China Town (The Caps) is within a few blocks of every subway line. Maryland, DC and all of Northern VA come there without changing trains. Less crowds after games because people are going in every direction.
Nats Park is on the Green. That’s it. If you live between southeast DC and Greenbelt, MD, you’re in luck.
Look at the attached map…look at the area covered by all 5 lines.
Not the Blue/Orange Lines
It’s a pretty good walk from Metro Center, esp. in winter.
Rob
"Man may penetrate the outer reaches of the universe, he may solve the very secret of eternity itself, but for me, the ultimate human experience is to witness the flawless execution of a hit-and-run." -- Branch Rickey
You can transfer bewteen lines, you know.
I will admit it’s a pain switching to the green line at L’Enfant, since the train is usually packed by then—sometimes even with Nats fans!
"And everybody lived happily ever after. Except the Phillies and the Mets. The End." --Sasskuash
Friend of Dukes and Desmond #3
What's wrong with Johnny Holiday?
Johnny Holiday has been in the market for 30 years, he’s fine. I’m glad he’s aboard rather than another washed up Cincy Red.
Once they are in the race, they’ll draw again. It’ll happen. I’m very curious to see the attendance for Strasburg starts.
Blogging about D.C. Baseball since April '04. Penn State alum. Also partial to the Washington Capitals, New York Yankees and Yale football.
If it’s anything, the Nats get the worst of everything from MASN. Worse sets, worse production, worse stats, worse graphics, worse booth analyst (looking at Dibble v. Jim Palmer, etc.), possibly even worse make-up.
Johnny is okay and I don’t have real problems with him. I guess what I’m saying on that one is he’s kind of a comfortable classy comfortable hometown kind of guy.
Weaknesses: He is a horrible fill in for Sunshine Bob when Bob’s out of town.
Strengths: Loyalty to the market.
Probably a good bridge to somebody who can connect with younger fans at a later date.
A real American hero...taking down Habs one game at a time
Doubly Comfortable?
I think he’s just doubly boring. Carpenter, too. At least Dibble has a personality.
Rob
"Man may penetrate the outer reaches of the universe, he may solve the very secret of eternity itself, but for me, the ultimate human experience is to witness the flawless execution of a hit-and-run." -- Branch Rickey
Dibble has a personality but he whines and doesn’t know that much about baseball in my opinion. I haven’t been watching much lately. I remember last year thinking that sometimes that he could be a funny dude. If they would play up the entertainer side of him and focus on him less an analyst and as a homer it would play better. As somebody on XM, he should realize that there are out of town markets that get MASN feeds and every time go elsewhere on SBN and someone is subjected to our announcers they hate them for not being that credible.
A real American hero...taking down Habs one game at a time
Can the Nats be as popular as the Caps?
Of course. The Caps are “popular” now because they win a lot. There are really not that many hockey fans here, but since they are the only team in town that has won much at all the last few years, they are the team to watch. And once they stop winning, those Capitals shirts you see on every street corner nowadays will start collecting moths.
If the Nats start winning, you can bet your butt they’ll be more popular than the Caps, even if the Caps keep winning. Why? Baseball is, in general, more popular than hockey, that’s why. Baseball has more stars than hockey and is much more family friendly than hockey (it’s much more accommodating to the casual fan).
Rob
"Man may penetrate the outer reaches of the universe, he may solve the very secret of eternity itself, but for me, the ultimate human experience is to witness the flawless execution of a hit-and-run." -- Branch Rickey
And once they stop winning, those Capitals shirts you see on every street corner nowadays will start collecting moths.
Even if this is true, I hope that noone spends a lot of time in that mindset. I have felt from day one, that the Caps are really, really working hard at helping me to understand their game and creating a sustainable plan that will make extended losing such as the Nats sustained from 2006-2009 impossible. More teams get invited to the playoff dance in hockey and more teams have a reasonable chance of winning once they get there. Much as we like to talk about the Yankees not winning it all consistently, outside of the Fish, the mid and smaller market teams seem to be able to make the playoffs but struggle to have enough aces to run the gauntlet.
The business model of hockey is more about parity than the business model of baseball as well and will help present all but the most idiotic of ownership from not having a chance to make credible playoff runs consistently.
And lest you forget, half the reason that the fans show up is to see one of the two Greatest Players in the World come on a consistent basis. Ted wisely locked him up for a long, long time so that you can invest in that expensive Ovechkin jersey without terrible worries about it going bad. The flip side of the Strasburg stuff for us will be in a few years where we may have to learn that we are closer to Milwaukee as a market that had to watch CC go instead of St. Louis as a market that will pay 30Mil for Pujols. We have a long, long way to go with this ownership group to see if they will pay to keep their stars around.
A real American hero...taking down Habs one game at a time
forgive me if you saw similar stuff over that the Rink yesterday (you knwo who you are).
The Nationals biggest problem, imo, is the people at the very top, the Learners and Kasten, don’t care about building a viable, local fanbase. The Opening Day debacle drove the point home, but they way Kasten has been talking for the past couple of seasons now, it’s been building up to that. I remarked yesterday on the extreme differences I’ve had in dealing with the Capitals (who I have season tickets with) and the Nationals (who I don’t, although I considered it). The Capitals repeatedly reached out to me, even when I was only buying single game seats, but in the “bad days” immediately following to lock out. They wanted my business, and boy, did they want it badly. Even now, they’re still checking in, making sure I’m a satisfied customer, always willing to jump when I call and ask, “Is it possible to get seats for….?”
Dealing with the Nationals is the opposite. I inquired about season tickets, and never got follow up. I go to lots of games, but Nats staff doesn’t reach out and ask me how they can get me to more games. I live across the street from the Park, but never have I seen Nationals staffers trying to connect with our community and find out how to get us to more games.
Going to the ballpark when certain teams are in town is a miserable experience. The most grating thing, of course, is the way the Nationals openly encourage these opposing fans to invade the Park. The Capitals have done everything in their power to keep the opposing team’s fans out of the Verizon Center.
And I assume the differences in how Leonsis deals with his team’s fans vs. the Learners doesn’t need to be elaborated on.
I think the Nationals coaches and players deserve to play in front of fans who are there to see them, cheer for them, and be fans for them. I have no problems with them. I have no problems with Rizzo, either, as he seems like a stand-up guy who has done a good job so far. But the Learners and Kasten? They haven’t shown any honesty in dealing with local fans; in fact, I get the distinct impression that perhaps that would just like it if all DC fans went away and they can focus on marketing the Park as the place to come while you’re on vacation, come see your local team play the Nationals! it’s hard for me to want to support an organization who so clearly doesn’t care about us locals.
Kung-fu Rink Rabbit
Donation info for SAVES FOR KIDS 2010!! Make a difference.
I'm a STH, and I have no problems whatsoever with the customer service
I also have no problems with the team trying to fill the stands (at least, not at the expense of Nats fans, that’s not cool) . I’m not so insecure in my opinions that I can’t sit in the stands with a large contingent from the “other” team. This goes especially for when the Nats actually beat those teams.
I don’t know what you are hoping for from the Nats sales/marketing office. I’d get annoyed if they pestered me to buy season tickets simply because I’ve bought single-game tix in the past.
Rob
"Man may penetrate the outer reaches of the universe, he may solve the very secret of eternity itself, but for me, the ultimate human experience is to witness the flawless execution of a hit-and-run." -- Branch Rickey
Kasten is an extremely tough pill to swallow. He is a former Brave and a very arrogant cat who believes that he is not making mistakes and probably feels that he should own the team as much as the Lerners. Can’t stand that dude. And the Lerners aren’t warm and cuddly folks.
This is a real issue that won’t be a dealbreaker in terms of whether I’m a Nats fan or not but it will help me figure out how much passion I bring to the table as a Nats fan.
As far as the Caps go, I have a high degree of confidence that I am valued and that the players are quality entertainers and quality peoples. I’ve kind of checked out of the NBA due to the losing and the total lack of quality personnel. The one guy that I had my ship hitched to there was Caron Butler and even he had an issue with following the coaches directions on an end of game play this year.
The Nats have a lot of real quality ballplayers as well and it is easier to like this version of the team than the Milledge/Dukes version of the team. I am especially glad that they got Nyjer Morgan in return so that haters can’t say “they just can’t adapt to those tough Black Players from tough backgrounds” tough.
Strasburg will be a real watershed moment for the club and I hope that they handle it well on the marketing, core franchise player front, and building a winner for the club.
A real American hero...taking down Habs one game at a time
They've called me before...
I’ve only bought single game tickets and the Nats have called me before trying to sell me season tickets. Others have had the same expience, with the Nats even spying on them via google.
Pitcher matchups matter to me so much, though, that no package of season tickets could ever work for me. Plus it’s hard to find people to go games with, so flexibility is needed for that as well.
maybe they just don’t want my business.
Kung-fu Rink Rabbit
Donation info for SAVES FOR KIDS 2010!! Make a difference.
When did the Caps become loved? When they won
divisions and made the playoffs
When will the Nats get loved? When they make the playoffs and have winning streaks
Period
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