UPDATED: Washington Nationals' Stephen Strasburg: Strained Flexor Tendon In Right Forearm.
by Patrick Reddington on Aug 21, 2010 9:00 PM EDT
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10:27 Updates:
•@markzuckerman: "#Strasburg flexor tendon in forearm strain. MRI tomorrow."
•@NatsTownNews:"Strasburg left tonight’s game with strained flexor tendon in right forearm. Mri tomorrow in dc."
9:01 pm EST: The Nats' '09 No.1 overall pick, Stephen Strasburg, the best pitching prospect in a decade, is now possibly injured for the second time after being pulled from the game when he shows noticeable pain in his arm after throwing a 2-1 change to Phillies' outfielder Domonic Brown in the fifth inning of tonight's game. Immediately upon releasing the pitch, Strasburg winces and pulls his arm back, examining the inside of his forearm/elbow for a quick minute, drawing catcher Pudge Rodriguez, Nats' Skipper Jim Riggleman, Pitching Coach Steve McCatty and the team's trainer out to the mound, and he's quickly pulled from the game. NatsTown falls silent...
No word on what went wrong yet....Will update when news is available....
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Open Letter to the Nats Organization
Open letter to the Nationals coaching staff and the organization’s decision makers. Tonight was very upsetting to me for one reason. I was upset that caution has, again, been thown to the wind in your organization and no one can say “No” to Strasburg. Steve McCatty has advertise over and over that he leaves Strasburg alone and provides little direction—well that’s great to hear Mr. McCatty. Can anyone say, “No.” All you have to do is look at the Washington Wizards to see an example of how not to handle a highly motivated and competitive athlete. For instance, Gilbert Arenas missed more time simply because no one could say, “You’re done for the season.” He went out and played and continued to damage and reinjure his repaired knee. Athlete’s have pride and maturing athlete’s will continue to compete if the people around them allow it. The outcome can be bad for everyone. Strasburg didn’t have surgery and you can’t approach the guy with fear and a concern for his health, but at the same time sports trainers need to have the “green light” from the front office to say unpopular things and that is that he needs to be shut down for the season. What does the organization gain from tonight’s performance? Does he need to hit 200.00 plus inning this season? Is this season some kinda test? I don’t know the numbers, but my concern is no one wants to state the obvious and unpopular choice of ending Strasburg’s season. Is it up to Strasburg or the organization? Yes, everyone is different and I get it, but Strasburg is unique. The guy can locate a fastball and a change up. So why not sit him down and say, “You’re done for the season.” Instead, you let him go out there like every maturing athlete would probably do and play until he no longer can’t. Very upsetting. Now what?
Open Counter Letter to the Nats Organization
While srstetler raises some very pressing points, I disagree completely. For all of the reasons he listed, yes, you should likely sit Strasburg down. But the Nationals do not play in New York, Boston, Chicago, or any other market when fans show up, especially right now with football season opening up, to see a baseball game. I understand why the organization feels the need to take a risk and start Strasburg this season as often as possible – the organization realizes that they can not win with just Strasburg. If Strasburg’s starts and jersey sales (I know, split among the league, right?) this year generated enough revenue to sign a free agent, it might just be worth the risk.
It’s unfortunate that the risk became reality tonight, but kneejerk reactions aren’t fair. There may have been no perceivable damage, and this may not be a re-aggravation of a previous injury. It’s just too early to make any calls.
"Don't mind WM...he's an all-around jerk."
by Whiter Mage on Aug 21, 2010 10:20 PM EDT up reply actions
I’d like to add (So PS), that if he was hurt, and the doctor said “Yeah, I guess he can play”, that’s some crap. But if he was healthy and there wasn’t anything visible or perceivable at the time, it’s complete and utter lunacy to not let the kid play and try and try and develop as a pitcher some more. Maybe his delivery needs adjustments, maybe not, but in sports players get hurt.
"Don't mind WM...he's an all-around jerk."
by Whiter Mage on Aug 21, 2010 10:23 PM EDT up reply actions
this
Today I saw two people roll their ankles because they ran over bad groud. Athletes get hurt.
by lynxtheone on Aug 21, 2010 10:34 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
This is a different injury than one that he had before.
He had no pain when he returned from the DL unless he lied about that pain. If a guy wants to lie about the pain level, like Stammen probably did last year and other guys may have before this, there isn’t but so much you can do. I applaud John Lannen for being transparent at the first sign of discomfort when he was hurt earlier this year and going down to AA to correct mechanical flaws created by postinjury fear.
I think Strasburg is being transparent with his pain. He’s a competitor and any time he shows a sign of having less than solid mechanics or feeling discomfort they’re going to shut him down at this point in his career.
I don’t have a problem with how they’re handling him just like I don’t have a problem with what happened with JZim when he had to have Tommy John surgery last night.
On a desperate search for Sunshine at Nats Park. In Rizzo and Ramos we trust.
by souldrummer on Aug 21, 2010 10:30 PM EDT up reply actions
Arenas
You are aware that the reason why Arenas missed so much time is not because the Wizards failed to say “no”, but that Arenas failed to acquiescence to off-season surgery. He waited until just before the season while the team was pretty adamant he addressed the injury immediately.
with all due respect
By your own admission, you obviously haven’t paid any attention to the protectionism the Nationals have employed since spring training. They’ve taken every precaution to keep him on consistent rest and limited his pitch count (never threw 100 in a start all year) and innings (never more than 7). He’s not even remotely close to 200 IP. And if you believe he wasn’t 100% after the DL stint, how do you explain the outstanding velocity/stuff of the last 2 starts, as well as the results? No injured pitcher produces those numbers.
You’re alone in the wilderness if you think the front office hasn’t handled Strasburg as delicately as a pitcher could or should be without hindering his development. This injury has nothing to do with pushing a pitcher beyond reason.
Yet you somehow presume to know that the Nationals foster an environment of deception from the front office down to the trainers just to squeeze a few more 2010 starts out of an asset that cost them many millions, the rest of his career be damned. Yeah, that makes perfect sense.
Can't disagree more
Strasburg threw 55 1/3 innings in the minors this year. Add that to the 68 total innings in the majors and that’s 123 1/3 innings. That hardly shouts “overused”. Furthermore, due caution has been at hand his entire time in the bigs. The Nats are definitely wearing the kid gloves with Stephen. When he had trouble getting lose in the pen before a game in July, they immediately shut him down and put him on the DL. Furthermore, since Strasburg hit the big leagues, it has been widely publicized that he would not pitch more than 160 innings and as he approached that number he would be shut down for the season.
I realize people are going to be upset at the losing Strasburg for the season with the prospect this injury is more than just a tendon strain, but putting blame on the Nats is wrong. Strasburg is their number one commodity. He is a money maker and if he’s treated as Mark Prior was in Chicago, not much good would come of it. I commend the Nats for their philosophy in dealing with Strasburg.
Agree with both of the above. thanks for the comments.
Something tells me that in the light of day, the rant above might seem an overreaction to the immediate shock of Strasburg yanking the arm back in pain. But the Nationals have stuck to their plan from the start and the gradual increase of innings (not to the 200.0 mentioned in the rant) but the 150-60 you cite and the Nats have all season is a pretty standard progression from what a pitcher throws in college. I think the Nats have handled this all as well as they possibly could.
I’m definitely keeping an eye on Texas though to see how Nolan Ryan’s approach to building arms turns out over the next couple seasons…just to see different strategies play out.
Vivian Jaffe: "Have you ever transcended space and time?"
Albert Markovski: "Yes. No. Uh, time, not space... No, I don't know what you're talking about."
by Patrick Reddington on Aug 22, 2010 10:07 AM EDT up reply actions
Amen to the Nolan Ryan stuff...
…they are a valuable counter argument to all of the pitch counts and innings limits elsewhere in baseball. Hopefully, they will help us debate with the “just let ’em pitch like in the old days” arguments that you often have from folks who can remember Steve Carlton’s gargantuan innings during his 27 win season and other examples of pitching dominance with high innings totals from baseball’s history.
I remember Bill James speculating on this one time. I believe he said that pitchers often have shorter and different wind ups than they used to because of the efforts to combat the running game out of the stretch. There’s a real avoidance of the high leg kicks of year’s before to aid drop and drive and made more of an effort to generate the power with arm whip that could lead to differences in mechanics. It might just take more effort and violent delivery to handle some different kinds of bigger stronger hitters in today’s era such as those who were putting up the big numbers in the steroid era.
I’m just speculating here, though. Take it with a grain of salt when I start talking out my behind.
On a desperate search for Sunshine at Nats Park. In Rizzo and Ramos we trust.
by souldrummer on Aug 22, 2010 10:15 AM EDT up reply actions
Funny thing is
Nolan Ryan’s Rangers don’t really overuse their pitchers so much this season. In terms of innings thrown by starters, their staff has actually thrown the fewest innings in their division and the pen has thrown a lot of innings. (the A’s staff has thrown a lot of innings, and they’re all really young and not the most durable staff in town)
The Rangers starting staff are also mid-road in terms of total batters faced
Needs moar dingerz.
That's interesting after all the hype they've gotten with this "Nolan Ryan approach"
Are they going longer per 9 innings given their age and still breaking down? Are guys in the lower levels of the system who’ve been drafted since Ryan took over pitching more innings than other teams would allow?
On a desperate search for Sunshine at Nats Park. In Rizzo and Ramos we trust.
by souldrummer on Aug 22, 2010 11:55 AM EDT up reply actions
it's interesting
Feliz is their best pitching prospect, and he’s in the bullpen closing instead of the rotation starting.
Holland got hurt, but looking at last year and this year, I haven’t really seen any excessive pitch counts.
CJ Wilson has thrown a lot of heavy pitch counts, as has Colby Lewis, IIRC.
For some reason, they’re handling the young arms pretty nicely, but running the vets into the ground.
But then, Nolan Ryan is now actually an owner, so it’ll be interesting to see how things change. And, I might be missing something obvious.
Needs moar dingerz.
Thanks for the insight.
After Josh Hamilton, Cruz, Vladi, and Feliz I can’t say that I’m very familiar with the Rangers, unless you want to count Molina and Guzman because of their names in earlier deals.
On a desperate search for Sunshine at Nats Park. In Rizzo and Ramos we trust.
Shut him down for the season, I says.
Part of Pech's Posse since 2007.
by OleksiyPecherovsHomeboy on Aug 21, 2010 10:21 PM EDT reply actions
+1 sadly, let Marquis earn some of that $7.5M...
Eat innings, vet!
Vivian Jaffe: "Have you ever transcended space and time?"
Albert Markovski: "Yes. No. Uh, time, not space... No, I don't know what you're talking about."
by Patrick Reddington on Aug 21, 2010 10:24 PM EDT up reply actions
Yep, you've got to do that at this point.
What’s his innings count at this point? Add 20% and that will probably be the new count for next year. Yet another reason why we need to be focusing on 2012.
You’ve got to have depth in the pitching staff so that if you lose and Edison Volquez like Cincinnati did it doesn’t decimate your staff. One of the things that was impressive about our draft is that we seem to be making a commitment to get a volume of some higher upside arms.
On a desperate search for Sunshine at Nats Park. In Rizzo and Ramos we trust.
by souldrummer on Aug 21, 2010 10:32 PM EDT up reply actions
Strained flexor tendon in his forearm says http://twitter.com/MarkZuckerman
Rookie Umps - Just trying to make a name for themselves!
Anything that isn't the two letters is something we can live with.
It will take the air out of the balloon from a few more possible starts but if he’s ready to pitch for Spring Training next year, we’re still in fine shape.
Hard to see how they don’t shut him down at this point, though. This sounds like a DL plus rehab kind of thing, and I don’t see why they would want to do that.
On a desperate search for Sunshine at Nats Park. In Rizzo and Ramos we trust.
by souldrummer on Aug 21, 2010 10:33 PM EDT up reply actions
Here's first updates:
@markzuckerman – “#Strasburg flexor tendon in forearm strain. MRI tomorrow.”
@NatsTownNews: “Strasburg left tonight’s game with strained flexor tendon in right forearm. Mri tomorrow in dc.”
Vivian Jaffe: "Have you ever transcended space and time?"
Albert Markovski: "Yes. No. Uh, time, not space... No, I don't know what you're talking about."
by Patrick Reddington on Aug 21, 2010 10:26 PM EDT reply actions
So if/when Stras goes on the DL, Who Replaces him on the roster?
Screech's Godson
UMD Class of 2014! GO TERPS!!!
Art Silber
He’s been in the minors long enough. Time for a call to the bigs.
"Don't mind WM...he's an all-around jerk."
by Whiter Mage on Aug 21, 2010 10:35 PM EDT up reply actions
El Duque.
"Inconceivable!"
"You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means."
-The Princess Bride
Clearly,
Jordan Zimmermann.
Rob
"Ninety feet between home plate and first base may be the closest man has ever come to perfection." -- Red Smith
Yep.
Jordan Zimmermann was dominant in his last start and I think he’s due for promotion 5 days after Friday’s start. Hope they announce something after they resolve what’s happening with Strasburg.
On a desperate search for Sunshine at Nats Park. In Rizzo and Ramos we trust.
by souldrummer on Aug 22, 2010 11:56 AM EDT up reply actions
As a person, you hate to see guys get hurt. But honestly, we have him, we’re paying him, if the doctors give him a clean bill of health and he’s not feeling any pain, let him pitch. If he’s gonna get hurt, he’s gonna get hurt, and if he’s healthy, I’d rather see him out there pitching. Don’t shut him down for the year even if he’s healthy just cause you’re afraid of getting him hurt, cause whether its this year, next year, or the year after that, the risk of injury is the same. Basically what I’m saying is, don’t be afraid to throw him out there if he’s healthy, that’s what he’s getting paid for, and that’s why we have him, even when there really is nothing to play for.
I completely agree
If he is cleared by the doctors and feels fine, I think he should continue to pitch. If he has to go to the DL at all, then shut him down.
Selfishly, I want to see the rotation next month with JZim, Maya, and Stras to get a taste of next year.
by The Herndon Kid on Aug 21, 2010 11:20 PM EDT up reply actions
These comments remind me of Mark Twain's quote...
“The reports of my death are greatly exaggerated”
Wait for the MRI!
(And forget about Kerry Wood. The Cubs were in a pennant race that year. It’s not the same thing.)
Experience is the name everyone gives to their mistakes. Oscar Wilde
For those looking for sunshine...
…Potomac bounced back big time tonight in a 9-2 win. Two more HR for Tyler Moore and a HR for Derek Norris as well.
On a desperate search for Sunshine at Nats Park. In Rizzo and Ramos we trust.
as a med school guy
I can tell you that a strained flexor tendon would be excellent news (I’m still trying to figure out how they could have diagnosed him without doing an MRI, even called a doc I work with to ask him, he was also unsure).
The MRI would confirm that there are no tears are structural damage, which would mean no surgery and no long recovery time. He’ll obviously be shut down for the year, as he’s now pitched about 125 of the 160 innings they were hoping for him.
The biggest concern here is that the injuries (that are really quite fluke-y and random) are going to get into his head. We saw how bad he was against the Marlins when he was worried about his mechanics and his arm.
On the plus side, I thought he was having the best start of his career tonight (including his debut, which was nothing short of awesome) and I really like what we saw from Potomac tonight (its hard to remember this is not a one-man franchise sometimes).
We’ll have to wait for the MRI tomorrow, but it seems like this is very good news if it is indeed only a strain, most likely caused by arm fatigue.
Strasburg
Anybody who feels that the Nationals have been cavalier in their handling of Strasburg is a complete fool. Rizzo and crew have been very careful in his innings count and have taken a better safe than sorry approach at any signs of discomfort, let alone pain.
By the way, the injuries that plague(d) Kerry Wood had absolutely nothing to do with pitching too many injuries and/or pitching when hurt so that comparison is non-sensical.
The truth is that this is a story ONLY because it happened with Strasburg, for if that were any other Nationals pitcher it would be a mere footnote.
In closing I am as worried as any other National’s fan, but I don’t think this is a serious injury
Just found this interesting:
5/28/04 Padres place Jake Peavy on 15-Day DL w/ strained flexor tendon in right forearm. Out from 5/19-7/2/04
Vivian Jaffe: "Have you ever transcended space and time?"
Albert Markovski: "Yes. No. Uh, time, not space... No, I don't know what you're talking about."
by Patrick Reddington on Aug 22, 2010 12:24 AM EDT up reply actions
Riggleman deserves a major hat tip here though.
According to reports, Strasburg was begging to stay in the game after the pitch, yet Riggleman yanked him.
Which, of course, is an unpopular players’ decision but the best precautionary decision. bb
Needs moar dingerz.
It was a scary moment.
It looked like Stras was really giving the “get your [donkeys] out and HELP me” wave to the dugout—whatever it was must have shook him up a little. Of course, maybe it ends up being some twinge/cramp thing that he’d shake off, throw a few warmup pitches, and pitch through next season. After all, the latest I’ve heard on the “can’t get warm” start was that it was something they’d have him pitch through next season. I’m more than fine with the team babying him this season.
"And everybody lived happily ever after. Except the Phillies and the Mets. The End." --Sasskuash
Friend of Dukes and Desmond #3
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