Nationals Daily Evolutions 8/24/10
by David Huzzard on Aug 24, 2010 11:01 AM EDT
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PrintWhat is there really to say today. It just feels at times that this franchise is cursed, and even when they make the right move it turns out wrong. The Strasburg injury might be nothing. It might just be as John Lannan says and is the same thing he suffered through before. Lannan has proved nothing else but that he is durable, and there is value in a guy that can go out there every fifth day and give you innings. Even if they aren't very good innings. --Byron Kerr at masnsports.com
Every time a team orders a new test, or a second opinion, I am just waiting to hear the magic words. The one name that sends chills down the spines of baseball fans. Of course it isn't without precedence for this sort of thing. Fransico Liriano, Edison Volquez, and Jordan Zimmermann are all pitchers that had TJS in their rookie seasons. Of course this is jumping the gun let's wait and see what his second MRI says before we jump off the cliff. --Mike Henderson natsdailynews.com
Steven Shell must have been at the ballpark last night, because everything had a bad aura as the Nats lost to the Cubs in the wake of the bad news. --Mark Zuckerman at natsinsider.com
Boswell said it yesterday, and now national writers are saying it. The most important thing is to protect Stephen Strasburg. --Bob Klapisch from foxsports.com
Rob Dibble not speak his mind? Of course he had something to say (he is also paid to speak so silence might be bad for job security). Dibble goes against common thinking and laments for the past at the same time. --Dan Steinberg The DC Sports Bog
After the jump you get an extended rant about Rob Dibble. I am actually starting to wonder if I don't want him back next year just so I don't have to hear people complain about Rob Dibble.
Of course in a way he is right, but people are so hung up on it is Rob Dibble that said it and his normal brash manner that he said it with that they actually miss the value to what he said. If this is just a strain and Strasburg isn't stretched out then next year at this time the same problem will arise. The other good point is all athletes play with pain. One of my favorite scenes in a movie is in The Program when the freshman running back gets laid out and the coach asks him if he is hurt of if he is injured and he has to ask the difference. All athletes play hurt, and Dibble is right that Strasburg has to be able to tell the difference. A lot of the complaints about Dibble is that he comes across as macho. In recent times I have lamented the fact that our action heroes are no longer Bruce Willis and Harrison Ford, but are instead Leo and Matty Damon. I do like the Bourne movies and Inception, but there is just something awesome about watching Kurt Russell escape from New York, or Tom Selleck take down bad guys. I don't really care about Dibble (my wife can tell you there have been a fair number of times she has thought I have seriously hurt myself, because there is no way that many expletives should come out of a healthy persons mouth), but disliking him for being too manly is like disliking someone...well you can fill in the blank. (Note this was all written before Dibble's response was transcibed on this site. I still feel that there is a difference between being hurt and being injured and Dibble shouldn't just be critized because he is too macho, but what he said today is far worse. It takes a smart man to know when to walk away, and Dibble doesn't know when to walk away.)
This is a good blog on why exactly the decision the Nationals face with Strasburg might not be as easy as it first appears. --Harper at natsbaseball.com
In the non-dark cloud and suffering area of Nats news, Drew Storen has been named the player rep. --Adam Kilgore at washingtonpost.com
Manny Acta really like Saul Rivera. --Zach Links at mlbtraderumors.com
And a poll on if another former Nat should get a big contract from the Yankees in the off-season. Hint: it isn't Nick Johnson. --Zack Links mlbtradrumors.com
Just incase souldrummer hasn't answered all your questions on who certain minor leaguers are here is a profile and information on Tyler Moore. If he wins the Carolina League batter of the week award anymore they might just have to name it after him. --Jeff Bergin natsdailynews.com
A day after renewing with Syracuse the Nats announce that AA will be staying in Harrisburg. This is good news for me at least. I have a good friend from college that lives up there. --Adam Kilgore washingtonpost.com
The Nats spent a lot of money on the draft, and they rank in the top ten in percent over slot. --Jim Callis baseballamerica.com
In a bit of silver lining news Bryce Harper will be introduced on Thursday. I wonder if the Nats will offer discounts like they did when they introduced Strasburg. --Bill Ladson fron nationals.com
Around the NL East
I always thought the team in the lead had the best chance to make the playoffs, but this says that just isn't true as the Reds and Cardinals are both likely to finish with more wins than the Phillies. --Andy at baseball-reference.com
Keith Law likes income tax, or just tweeted before thinking about what he was saying. Either way he was shocked that the Marlins made money and then upset that Florida tax payers (tourist paying sales tax) paid for the new stadium. --Keith Law via Twitter
The Phillies must not like what their fans have to say, or it could be that they are winning and trying to squeeze every dime from anywhere they can. Whatever the reason this is bad news for everyone if the Phillies are able to get away with charging money to have the right to blog about the Phillies. --Teresa Masterson from nbcphiladelphia.com
General Baseball
I think the best answers might be nothing. A look at the form NCAA baseball players have to fill out when selected in the draft and don't sign. --David Mathews deadspin.com
If Adam Dunn isn't signed there are other options, and Paul Konerko might be one of them as he is having a resurgent season. --Jeff Passan at yahoosports.com
Rob Dibble isn't the homerist announcer out there. That award would have to go to Cubs color man Ron Santo, but besides from being wildly entertaining to listen to should he be in the Hall of Fame? --Andy from baseball-reference.com
"We got a player from the Giants."
"Not those Giants."
Another amazing catch made in Japan. --'Duk at yahoosports.com
A detailed look at why and when some managers leave, and it might not be good news for the Cubs. --the Common Man at platoonadvantage.com
His list of managers is at least slightly better than his list of women. Not really sure how Manny Acta ranks above Riggleman, and also why he just stops at 20 and just puts all the rest in a category called all the rest. --Steve Phillips from mlb.fanhouse.com
In many ways it doesn't matter how good your manager is. There is no better way to have a better team than to have better players, and teams could learn a lot from watch the Cubs struggles. --Joel Sherman nypost.com
After watching the Nationals play the Phillies tough for a couple games I was looking forward to what they would do against a team just as bad as them. The problem is the Nationals like to play to the level of the team they are playing. I just hope that things start to look up in Natstown as this could be a very long month, and it could be a very long offseason if Strasburg needs TJS and Dunn walks.
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tired of Dibble
he says the same thing every game: pitch inside, no walks, throw strikes, hit to opposite field, be patient, know the situation, etc I’m not sure if its hearing it all the time that depresses me, or if its because the team keeps doing the same things, causing him to repeat himself. Yesterday’s game was pathetic. Maybe the Nats have too many “nice” guys and need someone to get in teammate’s faces, call them out for dumb plays, light a fire.
yup, that's what missing from the team. Paul LoDuca.
sorry for the snark gengreen, i’m not really jumping on you. but what’s missing from the team is talent level.
Your voice of doom and gloom. Read more at natsnewsnetwork.blogspot.com
by Dave at District Sports Page on Aug 24, 2010 11:36 AM EDT up reply actions
I agree with you
but this team needs a apark as well as talent
+ Harp!! + Eye black for everyone!!!
Vivian Jaffe: "Have you ever transcended space and time?"
Albert Markovski: "Yes. No. Uh, time, not space... No, I don't know what you're talking about."
by Patrick Reddington on Aug 24, 2010 12:20 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Team needs an ULTIMATE WARRIOR!!
"And everybody lived happily ever after. Except the Phillies and the Mets. The End." --Sasskuash
Friend of Dukes and Desmond #3
Those two recent wall-climbing catches from Japan are fantastic.
Great stuff in this post, David. The the former writer here, Basil, might think you’re stealing his schtick with the Bruce Willis references. (Ed. Note: “This last part is a very inside Federal Baseball joke, no one will probably get it, feel free to just ignore.”)
Vivian Jaffe: "Have you ever transcended space and time?"
Albert Markovski: "Yes. No. Uh, time, not space... No, I don't know what you're talking about."
by Patrick Reddington on Aug 24, 2010 11:41 AM EDT via mobile reply actions
I liked the BA article.
Part of the reason the Red Sox are going to be around for awhile is that table. Spent the most money above slot and 2nd highest percentage. We come out 3rd. I would prefer to see that data in “guaranteed money” rather than bonus, though. Harper’s bonus is significantly above slot. His guaranteed money blows it out of the water, though, and that’s where the money the Lerners invested really shows through.
On a desperate search for Sunshine at Nats Park. In Rizzo and Ramos we trust.
Ruh-roh
The longer the Dunn talks string out the more of these kind of Dunn destination pieces we’re going to have to read at mlbtraderumors.com. Better Dunn quotes on his opinions about Wrigley and such at the linked article in the Chicago Sun-Times.
On a desperate search for Sunshine at Nats Park. In Rizzo and Ramos we trust.
if Strasburg needs surgery, there's absolutely no point in giving Adam Dunn $15 million a year for three years.
Your voice of doom and gloom. Read more at natsnewsnetwork.blogspot.com
by Dave at District Sports Page on Aug 24, 2010 12:23 PM EDT up reply actions
Now that's some pretty strong Eeyore right there.
If he needs TJ, next year’s kind of a wash but they really can’t afford to lose more games this year if they want to move beyond national joke status. I though the focus is 2012 or 2013? I’m in the same place as I’ve always been. Sign him, trade him, but don’t let him go for post-2013 contributing picks.
On a desperate search for Sunshine at Nats Park. In Rizzo and Ramos we trust.
by souldrummer on Aug 24, 2010 12:25 PM EDT up reply actions
yup, that's what I'm saying
if (and we have no idea yet) Stras can’t go next year, the Nats should use that money to get younger and more athletic at two spots, instead of tying up all that money in one seriously flawed player. in my humble opinion.
Your voice of doom and gloom. Read more at natsnewsnetwork.blogspot.com
by Dave at District Sports Page on Aug 24, 2010 1:09 PM EDT up reply actions
of course, i believe that they should use the money to get younger and more athletic anyway...
and concentrate on 2012 and beyond when Dunn will (probably) no longer be a viable regular major league player, and certainly not a viable National League player..
Your voice of doom and gloom. Read more at natsnewsnetwork.blogspot.com
by Dave at District Sports Page on Aug 24, 2010 1:12 PM EDT up reply actions
Yeah yeah
That’s what everybody was saying about him before THIS season began
Rob
"Ninety feet between home plate and first base may be the closest man has ever come to perfection." -- Red Smith
30
Once a guy hits that magic age it is easier to say they won’t be any good anymore than to say they will keep being good. Look at guys like Thome, Orlando Hudson, Konerko, Ortiz, and many others. Of course two of those guys are DH’s and some would argue that Konerko should DH, but those people are probably the same ones arguing that Dunn, Howard, Fielder, and half the 1B in baseball should be DHs. “Defense up the middle power at the corners.” The saying is as old as baseball and it is still true.
by David Huzzard on Aug 24, 2010 2:03 PM EDT up reply actions
That's the idea
I am almost 100% positive that Dave used the exact same phrase back in February or March this year about Dunn: “Deeply Flawed”. So deeply flawed that he makes the top 25 list in WAR, top 5 in total bases, top 10 in RBI, top 25 in runs scored, top 1 in HR, top 10 in runs created, top 15 in WPA, etc., etc.
Rob
"Ninety feet between home plate and first base may be the closest man has ever come to perfection." -- Red Smith
Yup, Dunn is a deeply flawed player.
I don’t discount any of the numbers you’re citing RBS (except he’s No. 2 now in HRs in the NL). he’s certainly very valuable in some aspects of the game.
but his is the second year in a row that after mid-August he’s slumped considerably (last year post-8/22 he went .203/.329/.361). so far, since the all-star break, Dunn’s hitting .200/.308/.448 and even worse than that the last couple of weeks.
all that aside, my main point was that if Strasburg is hurt for next year (and again, we have no idea yet), then my opinion is that this team isn’t going to comepte for anything, and they would be better off getting younger and more athletic than signing up an aging, defensively challenged slugger.
Your voice of doom and gloom. Read more at natsnewsnetwork.blogspot.com
by Dave at District Sports Page on Aug 24, 2010 2:51 PM EDT up reply actions
It is true
that Dunn has pretty much throughout his career suffered substantial drop-offs in production. One of Dunn’s assets is his durability, in that he’s always available to play, but he may well wear down as the season progresses to make him less effective. Perhaps it would make sense to plan on playing him 140-145 games per year rather than 155-160.
Rob
"Ninety feet between home plate and first base may be the closest man has ever come to perfection." -- Red Smith
I doubt we will win 81 games with or without Strasburg next year.
Screech's Godson
UMD Class of 2014! GO TERPS!!!
we can also look at Mo Vaughn, Richie Sexson, and any number of players whose numbers fell off the table in their early 30s.
Your voice of doom and gloom. Read more at natsnewsnetwork.blogspot.com
by Dave at District Sports Page on Aug 24, 2010 2:53 PM EDT up reply actions
There have been
thousands if not millions of guys that have played baseball since it was invented. Each player is a case by case basis and we don’t really know what will happen, but in my opinion it is just as likely Dunn is Dunn until the age of 35 or beyond as it is that he is done at 32. this team has to start acting like they want to win at some point in time. You can’t keep planning 2-3 years done the road forever.
by David Huzzard on Aug 24, 2010 3:20 PM EDT up reply actions
Frankly, I cannot understand all the nonsense about Dibble.
Can I just point something out? The guy was a MLB pitcher and he is absolutely right when he says that players play with pain. I love how people on blogs and message boards talk like they know what it takes to be a MLB player. We have no idea what it is like to play 162 games. We have no idea what these guys go through every day.
Sorry, I just had to get my rant in, because I can’t stand some of the nonsense I read all over the ’net day in and day out. I hate to break it to the Natsophere, but on some level they need to understand that Rob Dibble knows what he is talking about.
Just saying. FWIW, try listening to Joe Simpson on Braves’ broadcasts when talking about someone that is a “homer.” He had Chipper in the booth and Chipper had to tone down Simpson’s negative comments about the Nats. You never hear Simpson being called a homer and the guy is just nauseating. Everything the Braves do comes with superlatives. They can’t just make a catch. It is a “fantastic or marvelous” catch. It can’t just be a hit, it is a “fantastic or marvelous” hit.
Dibble roots for the team he broadcasts for, my God, what is wrong with that man? Frankly, what does the Natsophere want? A guy that reams the team every broadcast?
Patiently waiting for "next year" since 1971.
"Frankly, what does the Natsophere want? A guy that reams the team every broadcast?"
Uh, well that does seem to be what a lot of folks on the internet do. Not a big fan of constant negativity here, though. +SUNSHINE!! Is our motto!!
Vivian Jaffe: "Have you ever transcended space and time?"
Albert Markovski: "Yes. No. Uh, time, not space... No, I don't know what you're talking about."
by Patrick Reddington on Aug 24, 2010 3:39 PM EDT up reply actions
It's one thing to be a homer.
But calling Strasburg out and telling him to pitch through his pain at this point in irresponsible, considering the result of the first MRI wasn’t even back yet. he did exactly what he calls “blogs” out for, speaking knowledgeably about something he doesn’t have all the information about.
Your voice of doom and gloom. Read more at natsnewsnetwork.blogspot.com
by Dave at District Sports Page on Aug 24, 2010 3:39 PM EDT up reply actions
Dave, I agree that telling Stras to pitch through pain is not right.
I think that Dibble was a bit of a creep about that. Strasburg has been handled a specific way by the club and frankly, they’ve scared him into “calling in the calvary” for every little pain he has.
To clarify what I was saying above, I was talking more about everyone’s overall reaction to Dibble as a Nats broadcaster.
I don’t entirely agree with the “suck” it up commentary but I undestand where Dibble is coming from on that – a different era in MLB – but Dibble also needs to understand that the Nats have created this type of situation by handling Strasburg like he is china doll. However, the Nats are not wrong to handle Strasburg in that manner. Dibble’s comments and the bloggers comments aside, Strasburg has now had TWO injury scares in a very short time period and needs to be shut down … no exceptions, no matter what the arthogram says.
I think Dibble’s point is, if he was able to throw on Sunday, it was just a little “blip” and he needs to be tougher. However, that isn’t the case since the MRI was inconclusive. Dibble did pop off before knowing the facts, I don’t think he was telling Strasburg to pitch through horrifying pain, he was saying don’t whine about every little pain, However, the team obviously has told Stras to tell him if he has any discomfort, don’t hide it!
Two conflicting points of view. I think the bottom line is, these young players don’t know the difference between routine pain and horrifying injuy pain. I don’t know what the answer is since we are talking about human beings with different levels of pain tolerance as well as fears about their careers ending before they even get started. It’s a tough spot to be in but I don’t fault an organization that has invested $$$ in a young phenom to do their due dillegence.
Patiently waiting for "next year" since 1971.
by Princess Jazzy on Aug 24, 2010 3:59 PM EDT up reply actions
i'll agree with you that the young pitchers don't know the difference between pain and injury sometimes
we need to look no further than Chad Cordero, John Patterson, Shawn Hill and Jordan Zimmermann. All four pitched though pain without telling the team until it got to the point where surgery was the only option. Let’s hope Zimmermann has a different fate than the other three, and that Strasburg doesn’t have to go through it at all.
Your voice of doom and gloom. Read more at natsnewsnetwork.blogspot.com
by Dave at District Sports Page on Aug 24, 2010 5:30 PM EDT up reply actions
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