Nationals Daily Evolutions 9/2/10

by David Huzzard on Sep 2, 2010 11:00 AM EDT

That was an interesting game last night. Nyjer Morgan has been out of control for the last week or so. I am really not sure what is up with him. I have never seen a player go from a nice likeable somewhat funny guy to a thug in such a short amount of time. Was this always there? Maybe it is just that his baseball IQ is that bad and he just doesn't get it. --Mark Zuckerman from natsinsider.com

The one interesting thing I found in Goessling's game story was that commenters told him he should have seen it coming. Seen it coming from when? We all knew the Marlins would want vengence yesterday, but Nyjer has never been like this before. In a way it is kind of sad. I don't know if something happenned off the field to set him off like this or what, but this just doesn't seem like the Nyjer we saw before. Maybe all the struggling has really gotten into his head and he just had to explode. I just don't know, but I don't think we should have seen or expected anything like this to happen. --Ben Goessling from masnsports.com

There are a lot of blogs calling for Nyjer's head today. The one thing I disagree with here is saying Listach shouldn't have been involved. As a coach you have to stand up for your players. --Steven at FJB.com

I remember when I was on the wrestling team in High School at my first meet in my first match I had no coach in my corner. Before the match began my opponent shock hands with the ref and the ref asked him about his family. I didn't have a good feeling in my mind at that moment. When the match started I was flat out dominant. I threw the guy around like a rag doll. This was going to be an easy victory, and then penalty for locking hands. My hands weren't locked, but there was no one there to defend me. After the ref called it two more times and I told him my hand weren't even touching on the last one he told me it didn't matter if they were close he would call it. I had a victory stolen from me by poor officiating, and there wasn't a coach in site to stand up for me. Nyjer may have been in the wrong, but he had twenty Marlins on top of him. Listach had to do something.

And incase you haven't seen it here is the video of it. It has the Marlins commentators who also think Listach should have let Morgan get curb stomped by 20 Marlins. --Barry Petchesky deadspin.com

Morgan also had some other issues with a Marlins fan during Tuesday's game. --Dan Steinberg in The DC Sports Bog

The Nationals picked the perfect day to fire Rob Dibble. All of that news and more after the jump.

After his comments about Strasburg, and veiled threats to "irresponsible bloggers" it was just a matter of time before Dibble got let go, and yesterday turned out to be a pretty good day as it will be widly ignored due to the Morgan brawl. --J. Freedom duLac from The Washington Post

Rob Dibble finally says the right thing, but it is too little too late. --Dan Steinberg in The DC Sports Bog

Who should replace Dibs? The answer may be closer than we think, and might already be calling games. --Chris Needham at capitolpunishment.com

Does anyone really view Bernadina as a piece to be built around. I know I think of him as a below average right fielder, but if he moves to center he would be above average there. He isn't a superstar, but he is decent, and how many teams have eight superstars? You need roll players to win too. --Harper at natsbaseball.com

Maya made what is most likely his last minor league start, and Sammy Solis made his first professional start, and both of them did pretty well. --Byron Kerr masnsports.com

After Scott Olsen's terrible start last night have we seen the last of him? Also can you call someone a dirtball in a good way? A look at the future of the Nationals minus Scott Olsen and plus Danny Espinosa. --Adam Kilgore washingtonpost.com

So, telling everyone that a lot of guys have recovered from TJS and balancing it out by gently reminding people that Strasburg might never be the same is irresponsible? Two non-baseball guys that used to work in DC comment on how they think Boswell and others should be running around telling everyone the sky is falling. --Mike Prada from dc.sbnation.com

Wondering what to expect from Espinosa and Ramos and how they might be used. Rizzo and Riggleman say expect to see a lot of them. --Adam Kilgore from washingtonpost.com

Nationals giving away free tickets. This is a good deal, but I hope it also comes with some lowering of ticket prices for those of us that already have season tickets. --Dave Nichols at natsnewsnetwork.com

I am going to be enjoying some IC beer and Primanti Bros sandwhiches in the city of bridges this weekend. This will be the ninth city I have watched baseball in this year, which makes me really want to get a tenth city in. Anyone else out there going to venture up to Western Pa to remind them that Ovechkin is better than Crosby while watching some baseball? --Kristen Hudak from masnsports.com

Last week I wrote what might be the forward to the book I am going to be working on. It is still being edited and will be up in a week or so, but until I am ready to start working on the real book I have decided to write some sample chapters so i can get some early feedback and to get my mind fresh for the task. --Me at 'Til Death Do Us Part (Working Title)

General Baseball

The race between seven teams for four spots is exciting and could get even better as we get closer to October. Other things to watch include Joey Votto and Albert Pujols' race for the triple crown. --Joe Sheehan at si.com

Of course Omar Infante might have something to say about that. He already kept Ryan Zimmerman out of the all-star game why shouldn't he cost us the chance to see something cool that hasn't happenned for awhile. Jerk. --Jon Bois sbnation.com

It is really unfortunate that Zimmerman plays for a losing team. If the Nationals had happenned to win or even be closer to .500 this year his name would be right in there for the NL MVP award. Here is a breakdown of all the races for awards, with no mention of Zimmerman and his NL leading WAR. --Cliff Corcoran from si.com

Baseball is meant to be fun and teammates are meant to pick on each other, and what better way to do it than through at bat music. --Barry Petchesky from deadspin.com

The Astros got off to a pretty bad start, but with younger and more focussed players they are hitting a late season stride. --Ken Rosenthal foxsports.com

Certain cities might be in a pennant race, but you wouldn't know that from looking at attendance. --Ken Davidoff from newsday.com

By now i am sure you have heard about Chapman and his 104 MPH fastball. The question now is does he end up like David Price or Jonathan Papelbon, and does he really have value as a reliever. --Jack Moore at fangraphs.com

Here is how I viewthe debate on the value of a closer. It is like water. When you are drowning it is extremely overrated, but if you are walking in the desert it is extremely underrated. Look no further than last year compared to this year for the Nationals. Last year the Nationals couldn't do enough to get a closer, and this year the Nationals had enough guys that could be closers that they could afford to trade away Matt Capps for Wilson Ramos. --Joe Posnanski from si.com

Enjoy your off-day folks and I will be back tomorrow to bring you more on the evolution of the Nationals.

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Comments

I find it interesting that earlier in the season Yankee's first baseman Mark Teixeira

bum rushed/ barreled into Angels’ catcher Bobby Wilson in exactly the same way Nyger did to the Marlins catcher. Bobbie Wilson suffered a concussion and was out for a few weeks as a result of Teixeira’s actions. Nobody said “boo” about it because it was Mark Teixeira of the New York Yankees. Even our manager Mike Scioscia defended the play as legal, him being a former catcher for the Dodgers himself. Is it a much bigger deal and twice as serious an issue when a black man is the accused party in starting shit? This jumped,out at me when I saw the video of Nyger and I am in no way trying to interject politics or race issues on this site or cause any heated debate I just call things as I see it.

I hate the Texas Rangers

by 44FAN on Sep 2, 2010 12:06 PM EDT reply actions

If you're not trying to inject race into the debate...

Then why did you inject race into the debate. Not every frigging thing in the world is about skin color!

by Dan Shields on Sep 2, 2010 12:30 PM EDT up reply actions

Just pointing out what I observed and not trying to be a troll about it.

I hate the Texas Rangers

by 44FAN on Sep 2, 2010 12:43 PM EDT up reply actions

As a black baseball fan, I think that it's possibly worthy of being discussed...

…but I’m reluctant to go there because those kind of debates tend to divide rather than unite the fan base. I continue to believe that it would be good for the Nats and good for baseball to have more black baseball players to expand the audience and interest in the game. I can certainly say that part of Nyjer Morgan’s appeal to a small section of the fan base is that he is a black ballplayer who plays with an aggressive style. When I sat in the grandstand with a couple of Prince George’s County ballplayers, Nyjer Morgan was their favorite ballplayer.

I do think that consciously or subconsciously, some people compare Nyjer Morgan to Milton Bradley a little bit more quickly because of color. As a black baseball fan, I am especially embarassed about Nyjer’s actions leaving the field of play last night.

On the whole, though, race is pretty outside of the discussion in this incident. Interesting that on MLB Network last night, two black ballplayers, Harold Reynolds and Barry Larkin were discussing the Morgan incident. They seemed to be trying to help people understand Morgan’s actions and Reynolds discussed Morgan’s hockey background in trying to help defend him.

Personally, I really, really wish that Nyjer Morgan would focus more on being good Juan Pierre than being “balls out” player sometimes. I wish he would have behaved differently, but I have been more convinced by observing this debate that the stolen bases were not the big issue. I wish that he would have stayed in the box instead of charging the mound and seen whether he got thrown out.

FWIW, the smartest play for Morgan there might have been to try to bunt his way on and run over Volstad when the pitcher tries to cover first base. That’s kind of subtle way to get back at the pitcher and make it a pitcher vs. batter situation rather than a very unpredictable fight where you don’t know what’s going to happen and other ejections that affect the team are likely to happen.

Of course, Nyjer may have cost himself to get some additional getback against the Pirates with all of this. The Nyjer vs. Milledge comparison will be an additional storyline in that series if he’s not suspended yet.

On a desperate search for Sunshine at Nats Park. In Rizzo and Ramos we trust.

by souldrummer on Sep 2, 2010 12:50 PM EDT up reply actions

i think the Teixeira/Morgan comparison is off-base

first, i don’t think it’s improper to examine how the two incidents were perceived differently, if the situations were exactly the same. but they were not even close.

Morgan is getting more scrutiny because of the now lengthy track record he is compiling for immature, self-important actions on the field, and for having twice in a week initiated contact with a catcher unneccesarily.

pretty sure Big Tex’ collision was a one-time incident, therefore not subject to further scrutiny.

Your voice of doom and gloom. Read more at natsnewsnetwork.blogspot.com

by Dave at District Sports Page on Sep 2, 2010 1:13 PM EDT up reply actions

I don't think it's exactly off-base.

I do believe that there is some validity in asking the question, however, Nyjer’s behavior prior to last night’s incidents are showing a pattern of questionable behavior so the racial component may not be a factor in last night’s events. I don’t think it is wrong to explore how players are perceived due to race, ethnicity etc. I do agree with Souldrummer that it causes problems to discuss it, but I don’t think it is wrong to bring up the subject.

Patiently waiting for "next year" since 1971.

by Princess Jazzy on Sep 2, 2010 1:20 PM EDT up reply actions

i didn't mean to imply that the question wasn't valid

IF the incidents were exactly the same (or much, much closer).

Your voice of doom and gloom. Read more at natsnewsnetwork.blogspot.com

by Dave at District Sports Page on Sep 2, 2010 1:37 PM EDT up reply actions

I get where you're coming from...

…and it’s all good.

On a desperate search for Sunshine at Nats Park. In Rizzo and Ramos we trust.

by souldrummer on Sep 2, 2010 2:52 PM EDT up reply actions

One of the hard things about internet debates on these topics...

….is that you never know the background and biases of those who are discussing what’s going on. I try to be fairly transparent with my biases as a fan so people can take that into context when I’m making comments. I’m not going to hide that I’m biased towards Burgess and Hood in rooting for them as prospects because I hope they’ll make it easier for me to lobby for more baseball participation amongst youth in DC and Prince George’s. Destin Hood, a player who chose a substantial signing bonus as a raw baseball player over a scholarship at Alabama, is an especially powerful example for young black men assessing what kind of athletic career they’d like to pursue. And sadly in today’s environment kids have to make that choice very early when they lack the maturity to make it because of increasing specialization and professionalization of prep athletics.

The one area where I do try to defend Morgan sometimes is with the “he’s 30 so there’s no excuse for him making dumb plays” argument. He’s 30 in man years, but he’s not 30 in baseball years. Still, you look at this year and the seeming lack of progress with areas of fundamentals and technique is extremely frustrating. As another commenter in one of threads said, a lot of this could have been avoided if he’d tried to slide the second time the crash the catcher vs. slide decision had to be made.

On a desperate search for Sunshine at Nats Park. In Rizzo and Ramos we trust.

by souldrummer on Sep 2, 2010 2:52 PM EDT up reply actions

I lament the overall lack of interest in baseball by kids in our society

I think it's an offshoot of the video game world they've grown up in. My husband talks about how he and his buddies were always outside either riding their bikes or getting the guys together to play baseball. It's not like that now. The kids have to literally go to the LIttle League park to find other guys to play ball with them. I saw that with my son all the time and we live in an area that actually sends players to the major leagues.

Patiently waiting for "next year" since 1971.

by Princess Jazzy on Sep 2, 2010 3:04 PM EDT up reply actions

I love both video games and baseball. I am looking forward to October for both the post-season and Fallout: New Vegas

by David Huzzard on Sep 2, 2010 3:16 PM EDT up reply actions

I've got nothing against video games, it just seems like kids don't

play outside like us old geezers did when were young! LOL

I’m sure if we had video games and computers we would have spent a lot of time indoors too.

I remember how excited we got over the first video “pong” games. Wow, we’ve come a long way, haven’t we?

Patiently waiting for "next year" since 1971.

by Princess Jazzy on Sep 2, 2010 3:19 PM EDT up reply actions

I rocked me some Q-bert back in the day.

And still played whiffle ball up the street! That said, I have great respect for my parents not stepping up and buying one of the early Nintendos. I was forced to hit the library or be bored beyond belief.

On a desperate search for Sunshine at Nats Park. In Rizzo and Ramos we trust.

by souldrummer on Sep 2, 2010 3:27 PM EDT up reply actions

LOL! Q-Bert was my favorite! I was really really good, too.

Patiently waiting for "next year" since 1971.

by Princess Jazzy on Sep 2, 2010 3:31 PM EDT up reply actions

Paperboy was my arcade game of choice.

On a desperate search for Sunshine at Nats Park. In Rizzo and Ramos we trust.

by souldrummer on Sep 2, 2010 3:33 PM EDT up reply actions

Don't remember that one.

Patiently waiting for "next year" since 1971.

by Princess Jazzy on Sep 2, 2010 3:36 PM EDT up reply actions

Asteroids and Space Invaders

don’t know how muhc lunch money I spent on those two games…

Your voice of doom and gloom. Read more at natsnewsnetwork.blogspot.com

by Dave at District Sports Page on Sep 2, 2010 5:13 PM EDT up reply actions

Space Invaders, Galaga and Galaxian too.

Patiently waiting for "next year" since 1971.

by Princess Jazzy on Sep 2, 2010 5:30 PM EDT up reply actions

That't the game "not-Ferris-Bueller" was playing in the pizza place, right?

Boy, this thread has taken a tangent…

Rob

"Ninety feet between home plate and first base may be the closest man has ever come to perfection." -- Red Smith

by RobBobS on Sep 2, 2010 5:35 PM EDT up reply actions

Me, Atari and Kaboom wasted a lot of time together....

Vivian Jaffe: "Have you ever transcended space and time?"
Albert Markovski: "Yes. No. Uh, time, not space... No, I don't know what you're talking about."

by Patrick Reddington on Sep 2, 2010 6:03 PM EDT up reply actions

I hated that game. I would always break the window and the old lady would get me.

by David Huzzard on Sep 2, 2010 3:37 PM EDT up reply actions

Agree with this.

Ultimately, the way this changes is that parents have to bring their kids to the ballpark and to minor league games and there has to be wider access to better coaching, facilities, and competition at the prep level. A lot of kids start playing sports seriously in high school and baseball is not thought of as a legitimate sport to try. Plus, it has a very long time to get a payoff and you can’t succeed as easily purely on physical tools.

I will say that I have a young cousin who is the son of a professional football player. Right now, he is right at the point where he has to start choosing to specialize. Certainly, his Dad is going to be for football. But that “Starting 9” thing got him the chance to run out to the field as a catcher and shake Pudge Rodriguez’ hand. He didn’t even know who Pudge was and he plays the same position.

On the flip side, his older brother just broke an ankle playing football and had broken an arm the year before that. The black community needs to take a long hard look at how basketball professionalizes kids at a very young age in a way that may undermine college and how football carries a high injury risk. I’d like baseball to offer an alternative for kids, but it’s very hard to sell schools on a game that’s not as popular, doesn’t have high profile one night only championship games, and costs a lot in equipment and field maintenance to play.

On a desperate search for Sunshine at Nats Park. In Rizzo and Ramos we trust.

by souldrummer on Sep 2, 2010 3:18 PM EDT up reply actions

It's a dilemna and you have to wonder how many great black

players MLB has lost to football and basketball.

It’s true about specialization, my son started out in LL with a kid that could hit the snot out of the ball at a young age and he got so physically big that he was into football in 7th grade and never looked back. I always wonder what kind of baseball player he could have been.

Patiently waiting for "next year" since 1971.

by Princess Jazzy on Sep 2, 2010 3:24 PM EDT up reply actions

Have you read the Machine? I really liked Johnny Bench’s comment on the racial diversity of the Reds. He basically said he never noticed and was too busy playing baseball. in case you don’t know the line-up:

Rose
Griffey
Morgan
Bench
Perez
Foster
Concepcion
Geronimo

by David Huzzard on Sep 2, 2010 3:21 PM EDT up reply actions

I've seen it in bookstores and it's certainly on my radar.

Recent baseball reads included a Sandy Koufax biography and the book on the Curt Flood trial. Just started a Hank Aaron biography.

On a desperate search for Sunshine at Nats Park. In Rizzo and Ramos we trust.

by souldrummer on Sep 2, 2010 3:28 PM EDT up reply actions

Was it the Jane Leavy Koufax book?

It was awesome, I really enjoyed it since she gave you such an insight to what Koufax meant to his community and what a sensation he was in his day. Too bad his career got cut short.

Patiently waiting for "next year" since 1971.

by Princess Jazzy on Sep 2, 2010 3:36 PM EDT up reply actions

Yep.

I’d give it 4 out of 5 stars. The structure was a bit disjointed to me, and the goal of historical context fell a bit short for me. But yeah, as far as giving you a picture of what Koufax was about, it was a great, readable book.

On a desperate search for Sunshine at Nats Park. In Rizzo and Ramos we trust.

by souldrummer on Sep 2, 2010 3:41 PM EDT up reply actions

Of course, Rose was and still is hated by a lot of fans

for bowling over Ray Fosse in the All-Star Game. It was a legitimate hit, but (the argument goes) it was an exhibition game and probably not necessary anyway, and thus is was a dirty play. His defenders say that it was just Rose being Rose (to coin an anachronism), a guy trying to win a game.

Rob

"Ninety feet between home plate and first base may be the closest man has ever come to perfection." -- Red Smith

by RobBobS on Sep 2, 2010 4:00 PM EDT up reply actions

Yeah....

…I don’t know context for the Teixeira incident because I almost never watch the Yankees.

On a desperate search for Sunshine at Nats Park. In Rizzo and Ramos we trust.

by souldrummer on Sep 2, 2010 2:46 PM EDT up reply actions

thanks for that comment...I appreciate the thought you put into it ....

by NewJerseyAveSE on Sep 2, 2010 1:55 PM EDT up reply actions

I hope 44FAN comes back to see what I wrote.

Usually when I take the time to respond at length, I’m trying to articulate my view and give the original commenter something to stew on. 44FAN doesn’t come through here very much so I felt it’s important to give a lot of context and support for what I’m trying to say.

On a desperate search for Sunshine at Nats Park. In Rizzo and Ramos we trust.

by souldrummer on Sep 2, 2010 2:53 PM EDT up reply actions

I definitely think its worth being discussed.

And, other players have said nasty/mean things to fans, been outright rude to fans etc. and DIDN’T get suspended. It HAS to happen. I can’t really remember any incidents where a player actually got suspended for being a douche to a fan. Jayson Werth was a douche to fans in RF, and it was blown off as “he’s playing the game right” type BS.

And, although I don’t want to inject race into everything, I feel as if its important to acknowledge that race relations are still something to talk about.

Needs moar dingerz.

by Blicks on Sep 2, 2010 3:36 PM EDT up reply actions

And, in terms of Nyjer taking out Brett Hayes

Didn’t almost the EXACT same play happen with Ryan Kalish taking out Carlos Santana, with Santana having to miss the rest of the season? And nobody was trying to say “Oh, Kalish shouldn’t have done that, its a dirty play, etc.” they way they were with Nyjer.

It’s not a smart baseball play, but there’s definitely some dichotomy around how the two situations have been handled.

The Brian Anderson play was horrendous, but yeah.

Needs moar dingerz.

by Blicks on Sep 2, 2010 3:38 PM EDT up reply actions

I think

The hit on Hayes was clean, but they judged it based on all the stuff from this past week, and I still think Morgan was more interested in hitting Hayes than in scoring. I also think it can’t be ignored that all the players being named are either stars or having much better seasons. Morgan has been so different this year from last that I think something is going on off the field. I just don’t understand where all this came from. It is sad in a way to watch a self destruction like this.

by David Huzzard on Sep 2, 2010 3:43 PM EDT up reply actions

Can you help give me some more context on the Kalish play?

I also thought there was an issue there with Santana’s technique that left him a bit more exposed. Also, was there an opportunity for retaliation or any response from the Indians on that one? If they didn’t make a big deal out of that hit, it’s easy to see why the media wouldn’t make a big deal out of it.

On a desperate search for Sunshine at Nats Park. In Rizzo and Ramos we trust.

by souldrummer on Sep 2, 2010 3:48 PM EDT up reply actions

Yeah I'm pretty sure Santana was just in a bad position

That play wasn’t dirty at all, Santana just can’t leave his leg in front of the home like that. It wasn’t Santana’s first ‘bonehead’ play either, when we played them he stood on Home w/o the ball and Adam Dunn had to knock him over.

by Brotato on Sep 2, 2010 3:55 PM EDT up reply actions

Oh yeah, that play was definitely NOT dirty

I’m not disagreeing about that.

Needs moar dingerz.

by Blicks on Sep 2, 2010 4:04 PM EDT up reply actions

Part of the deal with that...

…though is that MLB is always going to bend over backwards to make superstar players and big market players look good. There’s a lot of money tied up in those guys and everybody’s going to want to make them look good to justify their investments. Right now, Nyjer is barely a step above a fourth outfielder and he needs to do everything he can to make it as easy as possible for the team to want to retain him as the starting CF for April 2011. Also, he has a history of relatively thoughtless play that makes it easy to pile on with him.

It’s very, very hard for me to match the context to Nyjer’s situation for a white player for me to say that race is a big part of the discussion.

One way that race may make a difference for black players sometimes is that it’s easy for them to feel more marginalized in the clubhouse and get into an “it’s me against the world!” mentality that can kind of feed into their approach to the game. Nyjer certainly seems to see himself as a one-man-crusade sometimes. I don’t think race is the primary reason for that, but it can contribute.

On a desperate search for Sunshine at Nats Park. In Rizzo and Ramos we trust.

by souldrummer on Sep 2, 2010 3:46 PM EDT up reply actions