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Wire Taps: Florida Marlins' Perspective, Wes Helms On The Washington Nationals' Nyjer Morgan.

The Florida Marlins' 34-year-old first and third baseman Wes Helms, a veteran of 12 major league seasons, appeared on Sirius/XM's MLB Network's Inside Pitch with Casey Stern and Jim Bowden this afternoon to offer one more opinion on the bench-clearing brawl that took place during the sixth inning of last night's game between the Fish and visiting Washington Nationals. In the game, Marlins' starter Chris Volstad hit Nats' outfielder Nyjer Morgan with a fastball in the top of the fourth in retaliation (most assumed) for a crushing hit on Marlins' catcher Brett Hayes in the previous game, but when Morgan decided to steal second and third and then scored on a sac fly in the at bat which followed his own, the Marlins apparently decided that further retribution was needed. In the sixth, with first base open following a leadoff double by Justin Maxwell, Volstad once again attempted to exact revenge, throwing a 90+mph fastball behind the Nats' outfielder, setting off the brawl that's been the subject of every highlight and talk show that covers baseball since it happened. 

Asked what he thought of the play at the plate the previous night in which Morgan ran over Brett Hayes, Mr. Helms said, "It was borderline, yes if he slides he's clearly safe, but Brett Hayes was on home plate, so, in baseball etiquette if he's covering home plate [Morgan] has a right to run over him," but according to Helms, "That wasn't really what triggered this,": 

Wes Helms: "What triggered it was the incidences before, so in our opinion and our minds, for him to do the things he did before the incident with us kind of made us think he's got bad intentions in his mind, because of his reputation of the past week or two, so the [play at home with Hayes] wasn't as dirty as something that we would've went after him for." 

Star-divide

Before Morgan decided to steal second and third after the first HBP, the Marlins, according to Mr. Helms were, "...done with it." The Nats trailed 14-3 at the time, and, "In our minds," Helms continued, "we're finished, we let him know that we're not going to stand for it, and then all of a sudden he gets on first base and takes off for second, and the first thing that goes in my mind is, 'O.K., what's this guy doing?' and I'm standing at third base just kind of like in awe of what's going on with this guy, I don't understand it, and then he takes off for third, and that put in my mind for sure and I know it did everybody else's this guy is just trying to be a total butt about the situation. He is totally going out of his way to show us up and that's just not good baseball etiquette. It's the intergrity of the game, it's bush league, you're down by eleven runs and he did that it just totally showed us that he's not playing the game the right way." 

"It was just something that don't happen too often in the game," Mr. Helms concluded, "...but something that's part of the game, it happens, it's happened in the past, it's not going to the last time that somebody does it, it just had to be a night where it was us and the Nationals." 

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Helms needs to get his head out of his ass

So you’re not allowed to try and steal bases to get back in the game? I call bullshit on that.

Part of Pech's Posse since 2007.

by OleksiyPecherovsHomeboy on Sep 2, 2010 8:08 PM EDT reply actions  

I need a refresher course on baseball etiquette...

Helms said…


He is totally going out of his way to show us up and that’s just not good baseball etiquette. It’s the intergrity of the game, it’s bush league, you’re down by eleven runs and he did that it just totally showed us that he’s not playing the game the right way."

Nobody ever told me that it was ‘baseball etiquette’ to roll over and play dead once you’re down 14-3 in the 4th inning. I never knew that. Imagine, all these years I thought the object of the game was to score runs and win. Now I know better…when you’re playing in Florida the object is to be polite. Got it.

by Dan Shields on Sep 3, 2010 10:03 AM EDT up reply actions  

Well, then I expect the same politeness when we see them.

They shall not do anything but stand there and let us strike them out when they’re here.

"Inconceivable!"
"You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means."
-The Princess Bride

by Jorgath on Sep 3, 2010 10:08 AM EDT up reply actions  

There's a HUGE difference between

“not stealing bases” and “rolling over and playing dead”. There are a lot of teams out there who score a lot of runs and win a lot of games without hardly ever stealing bases.

Rob

"Ninety feet between home plate and first base may be the closest man has ever come to perfection." -- Red Smith

by RobBobS on Sep 3, 2010 12:24 PM EDT up reply actions  

I guess we'll have to agree to disagree...

Stealing bases is part of the game and it’s a big part of Nyjer’s game. The fact that Volstad never made any attempt to hold him was poor baseball on Volstad’s part. I’m not condoning Nyjer’s actions of the last couple of week’s but I can’t fault him for stealing bases.

by Dan Shields on Sep 3, 2010 1:05 PM EDT up reply actions  

If stealing bases is the biggest part of his game

he doesn’t have much game to speak of. The ability to steal bases, marginally speaking, is one of the lowest-return attributes a player can have. And, considering his ability to steal bases is strongly mitigated by his inability to not get caught stealing bases, he’s worse off than I thought.

But then again, I always thought his best attribute was his ability to track down fly balls in the gap.

Rob

"Ninety feet between home plate and first base may be the closest man has ever come to perfection." -- Red Smith

by RobBobS on Sep 3, 2010 3:12 PM EDT up reply actions  

Sigh

Whats bush league is blaming Nyjer for stealing the bases instead of blaming yourself for not holding him on or throwing him out then somehow trying to justify that as the reason to throw at him again.

by Brotato on Sep 2, 2010 8:19 PM EDT reply actions  

Some etiquette???

Since when is an oppponent supposed to roll over? I just hope this clown follows his own idea.

by miacan1 on Sep 2, 2010 8:28 PM EDT reply actions  

Everyone in this needs to grow up

But maybe we have a true rivalry now.

by The Herndon Kid on Sep 2, 2010 8:35 PM EDT via mobile reply actions  

Baby Sanchez

Does Gaby Sanchez need elementary lessons on baseball theory. Doesn’t he know that the game is not won till the the last out is played. Fourth inning you have a big lead and you see fit to unjustly hit Nyjer because he ran into your catcher who just happened to be blockling home plate. Where is it written or theorized that at such an early stage of the game our hit batter should be a good boy and not make that HBP cost the pitcher an earned run and get us closer by one run, Does Big baby Sanchez need to cry about how unfair Nyjer was. What a meanie running over a catcher who was blocking home plate and stealing bases after he was hit by a pitch. The one who lacks sportsman ship is Volstad and the cry baby Sanchez.

by Mickey86 on Sep 2, 2010 8:58 PM EDT reply actions  

Yeah but,

some might claim that Nyjer actually cost the Nationals the ballgame Tuesday because he chose to run over a catcher instead of trying to score. He wasn’t playing the game right then, and everybody knew it.

Rob

"Ninety feet between home plate and first base may be the closest man has ever come to perfection." -- Red Smith

by RobBobS on Sep 2, 2010 10:26 PM EDT up reply actions  

Nyjer = bad at baseball

But, Marlins = bad sports

"And everybody lived happily ever after. Except the Phillies and the Mets. The End." --Sasskuash
Friend of Dukes and Desmond #3

by Doghouse on Sep 2, 2010 11:27 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

+1000 on both.

"Inconceivable!"
"You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means."
-The Princess Bride

by Jorgath on Sep 3, 2010 12:10 AM EDT up reply actions  

I do make that claim and I'm totally sick of Morgan's crazy act (if it's an act)...

but all this belly aching by the Marlins about baseball etiquette is b.s. The simple fact of the matter is that Volstad had absolutely no business throwing at Morgan the second time and Sanchez took a nasty cheap shot when he clotheslined Morgan. And Helms can whine all he wants but when they’ve got a speedster like Morgan on base, now with and axe to grind, who has a reputation for stealing at every opportunity, well shame on them for not being able to hold him!

by Dan Shields on Sep 3, 2010 10:09 AM EDT up reply actions  

Nyjer running over the catcher was a bad decision. It MAY have cost the Nats the game, but it didn’t "actually" cost them the game. I was as upset as everyone else that he made the wrong decision. But it was a legitimate baseball play and in fact if the catcher had dropped the ball he’d have been getting high fives and everyone would be talking about what a good hard nosed play it was. (As opposed to the bonehead play he made the other night against the Cardinals when he mysteriously “bumped” the Cardinals catcher instead of touching home plate. That play was just baffling to me and speaks to why I don’t see him as a starter for the Nats, but I didn’t see it as an attempt to injure.)
  
Rob, with all due respect, I disagree with your argument about how stealing second and third only gave the Nats one tenth of a percent (or whatever) more chance to win the game and was therefore bad baseball. They were practically giving him the bases. If the pitcher was holding him on, and he tries to steal, then, yeah, that’s bad baseball. But they weren’t and as a result the steal of second eliminated the chance of a double play, and the steal of third allowed him to score on a sac fly. If he had not stolen those bases the Nats would not have scored the run. What, because the score was 14-3 the Nats shouldn’t try to score more runs? Witness the Braves loss to the Rockies just the other night after being up 10-1. Afterwards the Rockies manager says ‘’What an effort.The thing I’ve fallen in love with these players is they don’t quit. We were short-handed pitching and then offensively, here we go, and we started chipping away. This is the icing on the cake.’’
Saying Nyjer shouldn’t “steal” a base (when it’s being handed to him, and that an important distinction) with the team is down 14-3 because it only increases the chance of winning by a small percentage is a little like saying a batter shouldn’t try to get a hit because the score is 14-3 for the same reason.
You get a run here and you get a run there and then pray for some long ball. Who didn’t think that when the Nats got to within 5 runs in the 7th that the game was in reach? What were the chances of them winning at that point? If they had in fact gone on to win, perhaps we then be talking about how Nyjer had sparked the team.

by PerryMason on Sep 3, 2010 10:14 AM EDT up reply actions  

I've kind of leaned more towards your point of view on this one.

It’s hard to go against the actual results, which is that Nyjer did help bring us one run closer in a game that was starting to get interesting by the later stages.

My current position is that I wish Nyjer hadn’t charged the mound but had gone old school and dragged bunted with an intent to either bulldoze the pitcher or shame the Marlins with more stolen bases. Charging the mound was not unjustified to me, but as Rob has said on other threads, it may not have been the best choice given the suspensions, fines, and most importantly the image hit that he’s likely to take. Nyjer’s basically in a probationary situation given his pending appeal on the Philly situation and getting into an incident like this hurts his cause.

Taunting the fans on the way out was completely unforgivable and that’s why whatever punishment or roster fate he has coming to him is probably going to be deserved.

On a desperate search for Sunshine at Nats Park. In Rizzo and Ramos we trust.

by souldrummer on Sep 3, 2010 11:57 AM EDT up reply actions  

My point all along was this:

it was extremely unlikely that

(1) the Nationals were going to come back and win the game, AND,
(2) that Nyjer would have generated a run by stealing a base, AND,
(3) that the run he generated would not have scored otherwise, AND
(4) that the run he generated would end up being critical to the comeback.

And by extremely unlikely, I mean like 1 in a 100,000 or less. The fact that 2 of those 4 things happened to have happened doesn’t change the original calculus (just as winning the lottery doesn’t make buying a lottery ticket a wise financial investment).

The more I think about it, the more I wish Riggleman (who should know these things a lot better than Morgan) should have just give him the red light.

Rob

"Ninety feet between home plate and first base may be the closest man has ever come to perfection." -- Red Smith

by RobBobS on Sep 3, 2010 12:32 PM EDT up reply actions  

What is this red light of which you speak?

If we possessed one, you’d think it would have been turned on before the guy started to lead the league in caught stealings.

On a desperate search for Sunshine at Nats Park. In Rizzo and Ramos we trust.

by souldrummer on Sep 3, 2010 12:39 PM EDT up reply actions  

Seeing as the Marlins are still complaining about this incident, I think it’s fair to say that they’re the ones who look worse here.

The sky is the same color wherever you go.

by Steck It Out on Sep 3, 2010 12:42 AM EDT reply actions  

I'm not sure I understand this conclusion.

Rob

"Ninety feet between home plate and first base may be the closest man has ever come to perfection." -- Red Smith

by RobBobS on Sep 3, 2010 12:33 PM EDT up reply actions  

I think he's saying...

… Marlins = Whiny little crybabies, or at least that seems to be the impression they give with the, “but.. but.. he stole bases after we hit him! And they were behind! Waaaah!”

"And everybody lived happily ever after. Except the Phillies and the Mets. The End." --Sasskuash
Friend of Dukes and Desmond #3

by Doghouse on Sep 3, 2010 1:25 PM EDT up reply actions  

Well, OK. So they "look bad".

For whatever that’s worth.

Rob

"Ninety feet between home plate and first base may be the closest man has ever come to perfection." -- Red Smith

by RobBobS on Sep 3, 2010 3:08 PM EDT up reply actions  

You know,

their mothers were hamsters (and their fathers did smell of elderberries).

Rob

"Ninety feet between home plate and first base may be the closest man has ever come to perfection." -- Red Smith

by RobBobS on Sep 3, 2010 3:56 PM EDT up reply actions  

I don't think we should all fart in their general direction though

the currents at Nats Park kind of swirl around unpredictably.

Rob

"Ninety feet between home plate and first base may be the closest man has ever come to perfection." -- Red Smith

by RobBobS on Sep 3, 2010 3:59 PM EDT up reply actions  

With their silly knees-bent walking around and bouncing behavior...

"And everybody lived happily ever after. Except the Phillies and the Mets. The End." --Sasskuash
Friend of Dukes and Desmond #3

by Doghouse on Sep 3, 2010 4:58 PM EDT up reply actions  

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