Nationals Daily Evolutions 1/28/11
by David Huzzard on Jan 28, 2011 11:01 AM EST
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PrintWhen the 2011 season finally begins all eyes will be on Jordan Zimmermann, Nyjer Morgan, Danny Espinosa, and Bryce Harper. --Mark Zuckerman at csnwashington.com
And if you are heading up to Hagerstown to watch Bryce Harper then you are also going to want to keep your eyes on the new manager, Brian Daubach. --David Wilhelm from bnd.com
Also don't forget to check out some of the other prospects from Keith Law's Nationals' top ten. --Sue Dinem from nationalsprospects.com
If the Nationals had an earlier fan fest then it would be possible that certain players on the guest list might not be Nationals. --Mike Henderson at nationalsdailynews.com
But would Josh Willingham have shown up in his new A's uniform? --Aaron Gleeman at nbcsports.com
What is it about playing for the Seattle Mariners that causes players to get DUI's as Adam Kennedy is now the second Mariners player to be busted this off-season. --Larry Stone from seattletimes.com
Justin Maxwell DFA'd to make room for Todd Coffey. --Adam Kilgore at washingtonpost.com
Do you like beer, good causes, or Ryan Zimmerman? Then the beer tapping at Gordon Biersch in D.C. might be the place for you. --Cheryl Nichols at natsnewsnetwork.com
Former National, Nick Johnson, might be a good fit for the Blue Jays. --Joe Sheehan from si.com
Around the NL East
Bono does not like pesky baseball players in his stadium and is forcing them to play a home game against the Mariners in Seattle. --Clark Spencer from miamiherald.com
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Sorry, but
Predetermining Livan as Opening Day Starter == DUMB.
Rob
"Valentines day is really the day pitchers and catchers report, and those are truly words of love.." -- David Huzzard
I agree
Its been a long time since we’ve seen him pitch, and he could show up to Spring Training and just have nothing.
Aim for the head baby Jesus
Well, with Livo, even when he has something it kinda looks like nothing
So how could you tell? (Throw slower, chants the crowd!)
I get why you say that, and I don't think it's set in concrete at this point
But why here? I didn’t see that in any story linked – Zuckerman says the honor probably goes to Livan, and there’s nothing definitive about that.
Presuming he shows up in decent shape and has a decent spring, I have no trouble at all with Livo starting opening day. He was, by miles, their most effective pitcher not named Strasburg – and Strasburg isn’t available. He is a senior statesman on the team and has done it before and so isn’t going to be phased by the delays for pomp and circumstance. Since JZ is likely to be #2 in the rotation, just have him set up so that his schedule can easily be adjusted to take over if he has a good spring and Livo falters.
I don't think Zimmnn will be there #2
I don’t think they will put that pressure on him. It will be Marquis(or Gorzelanny) and besides he will be on an innings limit coming back from TJ.
It was the Zuckerman story that got me riled up, but
I think it probably is pretty much etched in stone. Riggleman himself more or less acknowledged it a couple of weeks ago.
Livo to me represents precisely the unpleasant past that the Nats are trying to make us forget about. If they want to try to convince the fans that a new dawn has come for DC baseball, why prove it by trotting out the same old folks as their premiere players?
Rob
"Valentines day is really the day pitchers and catchers report, and those are truly words of love.." -- David Huzzard
I understand your point, but ...
What are your alternatives?
Jordan Zimmermann? 4-7 career record, 31 IP last year with a 4.94 ERA and a career ERA+ of 89?
Tom Gorzelanny? Just acquired, 7-9 last season, 36-37 overall, never been a TOR candidate?
Jason Marquis? That worked really well last year, didn’t it?
John Lannan? He’s subject to the exact same “old folks as premier players” argument. OK, JL isn’t old, but he’s a middle- or end-of-the-rotation guy masquerading as a TOR guy. And he didn’t have as good a season last year as Livo, although by the end of hte year he was better than everyone else.
Detwiler? Maya? Stammen? Mock?
I know that you’re on the Jordan Zimmermann bandwagon, but right now he’s more potential than production – a lot more. At this stage it’s hard for me to see how you don’t go into the season with Livo as the presumptive OD starter, but have that be an eminently rebuttable presumption.
The paradox again
I want to be one of RobBobs’ guys so that he’ll defend my side of the story as hard as he defends Jordan Zimmermann’s. But when I disagree with him that can’t help my case…
John Carlson: A real American hero taking names and settling scores.
Souldrummer: A regular guy trying to join Adam Dunn, Jordan Zimmermann, and Garrett Mock as one of RobBobS' guys.
Agree to disagree on this one
Livo was an excellent pitcher for the best team in DC history, the 81-81 first year team. He was a bright spot last year with his eephus pitch and has eaten valuable innings in the past. Is he somebody a good team wants starting on Opening Day? No. But I don’t have any other options and I’d like to see him try to annoy a team that practices all spring against more traditional pitchers and gets all of his slow stuff.
This may be Jordan Zimmermann’s lone shot to pitch Opening Day, but at some point I think Opening Day should go to somebody with more experience. Zimmermann’s going to have enough butterflies as is just being able to make the team out of spring.
That said, I hope it’s a truly open competition and they haven’t set this in stone before Spring Training.
John Carlson: A real American hero taking names and settling scores.
Souldrummer: A regular guy trying to join Adam Dunn, Jordan Zimmermann, and Garrett Mock as one of RobBobS' guys.
I'm even open to JZ starting OD if he comes out and is lights-out in the Spring while Livo struggles
But to anoint him the OD starter when he has essentially done nothing for his career is just silly, IMNSHO.
That's all I want, actual competition
Livo has as much to prove as JZ does. From mid-June on, Livo pitched 4.5 baseball, with a 2:1 K/BB ratio. In the exact same time frame John Lannan pitched 4.35 baseball with a 2.7:1 K/BB ratio. And I’m no Lannan fan, but at least it’s plausible to think of him being with the team for another few years.
Rob
"Valentines day is really the day pitchers and catchers report, and those are truly words of love.." -- David Huzzard
The time to celebrate the good season of 2005 has long since passed
I certainly hope that a performance 6 years ago factors into the decision about who the Nationals want to claim as their “ace” today.
Rob
"Valentines day is really the day pitchers and catchers report, and those are truly words of love.." -- David Huzzard
I was responding specifically to this statement
Livo to me represents precisely the unpleasant past that the Nats are trying to make us forget about.
Livo is one of the more pleasant parts of the past for me. I enjoyed watching him a great deal last year and if he looks like a competent pitcher during spring, tie should go to the veteran.
John Carlson: A real American hero taking names and settling scores.
Souldrummer: A regular guy trying to join Adam Dunn, Jordan Zimmermann, and Garrett Mock as one of RobBobS' guys.
Absolutely, even if Livo doesn't have a good season like he did last
year, he’s certainly earned the honor for what he accomplished last season.
However, I saw a quote from Riggs that wasn’t all that definite. He said something to the effect of “If I had to choose today…” I don’t think anything is set in stone.
Patiently waiting for "next year" since 1971.
by Princess Jazzy on Jan 28, 2011 3:25 PM EST up reply actions
All I'm saying is that Opening Day is one of the few times where I look at "Tie Goes to the Veteran"
Many times Riggles seemed to give more time to Veterans than I like and I feel that it cost the team wins and growth. This is one time where it seems to me that giving a veteran the exposure who has the confidence of his teammates should factor into who starts.
John Carlson: A real American hero taking names and settling scores.
Souldrummer: A regular guy trying to join Adam Dunn, Jordan Zimmermann, and Garrett Mock as one of RobBobS' guys.
Livo...........
Deserves a chance to be on this team as long as he goes 8-10 4.65 era minimum every year…… He deserves no automatic opening starts………..Right now JZIM is the pitching star on this team……….
JZIM.........
Deserves a chance to be on this team as long as he goes 8-10 4.65 era minimum every year…… He deserves no automatic opening starts………..Right now Livo is the pitching star on this team……….
Jordan Zimmermann has promise, and nothing more. It is going to take more than a strong spring training to turn that promise into success.
Zimmermann has shown more than just promise
Need I mention again the string of eight very solid starts he had in 2009 before he succumbed to the elbow problem?
Rob
"Valentines day is really the day pitchers and catchers report, and those are truly words of love.." -- David Huzzard
That is a very small sample size
Take Espinosa, who after 28 games is still considered a prospect. 8 games is nothing. Four good games in seven in 2010 is nothing. I am very optimistic about Zimmermann, but he hasn’t arrived just yet.
It's roughly the same sample size as provides evidence of Livan's great year last year
He was lights out for 2 months and then slightly-below average the rest of the way. This, combined with his completely awful 2007-2009 numbers keep me very skeptical.
Rob
"Valentines day is really the day pitchers and catchers report, and those are truly words of love.." -- David Huzzard
Tune in 3 weeks!
When these and other questions are answered in Viera!
John Carlson: A real American hero taking names and settling scores.
Souldrummer: A regular guy trying to join Adam Dunn, Jordan Zimmermann, and Garrett Mock as one of RobBobS' guys.
we still have all of February
before we even begin to get any notion about anything. It’s really more like 6 weeks.
A LONG 6 weeks.
Rob
"Valentines day is really the day pitchers and catchers report, and those are truly words of love.." -- David Huzzard
Yeah but we’ll at least be arguing about things involving actual baseball rather than just running around in circles waiting until the next rumor or move. That the Phil Wood thing got so much traction is an indication of the magnitude of the Baseball Jones.
John Carlson: A real American hero taking names and settling scores.
Souldrummer: A regular guy trying to join Adam Dunn, Jordan Zimmermann, and Garrett Mock as one of RobBobS' guys.
Rob.........
I’m backing you on DUMB………..You and I have differed on LIVO for two years yet it is completely jumping the gun LIVO over JZIMM, LANNEN or even Marquis………The starter is the guy who goes 5-0 1.25 era in March…………
I sure hope they can find someone like that... soon!
Rob
"Valentines day is really the day pitchers and catchers report, and those are truly words of love.." -- David Huzzard
IMO, spring training results aren't going to determine the opening day starter.
Your voice of doom and gloom. Read more at natsnewsnetwork.blogspot.com
by Dave at District Sports Page on Jan 28, 2011 5:04 PM EST up reply actions
Probably not
With the exception being Livan having a terrible spring. If that happens, I think the door will open up for someone else.
Rob
"Valentines day is really the day pitchers and catchers report, and those are truly words of love.." -- David Huzzard
Last year when they lost their first 10 spring games, all we heard was “spring training is to get in shape” and Rizzo actually said “I wish they wouldn’t keep score” or words to that effect.
Livo’s going to have to get hurt to not pitch opening day. again, just my opinion.
Your voice of doom and gloom. Read more at natsnewsnetwork.blogspot.com
by Dave at District Sports Page on Jan 28, 2011 5:20 PM EST up reply actions
Since we don't really have an ace, I just want the best performer out of spring training to start opening day.
You know, within reason. We can’t have a guy like, oh I don’t know, Garrett Mock having a 0.50 ERA in spring training and then start opening day. However, out of the group that is…
JZimm,
Lannan ( I know he’s failed in the past on opening day, but he still deserves a shot), Gorzelanny,
Detwiler,
Marquis,
or Livan
… I feel that we should give the ball to the guy who performs the best in spring training. Automatically having Livan on the mound gives me the impression that the organization isn’t expecting much in 2011 and is waiting for 2012.
by GetThatCurlyW on Jan 28, 2011 4:54 PM EST up reply actions
Garrett Mock as the opening day starter?
Even I can’t get behind that one. ;-)
Rob
"Valentines day is really the day pitchers and catchers report, and those are truly words of love.." -- David Huzzard
Rob, I was kind of taking a shot at you ;-)
I used him as an example of how the opening day starter shouldn’t be someone who just surprises everyone at spring training but hasn’t been a proven major league starter.
"How the hell can I make my teammates better by practicing?" - Allen Iverson
by GetThatCurlyW on Jan 28, 2011 9:27 PM EST up reply actions
Agree with the idea of best performer in spring training starts opening day...
of course, as the driver of the Marquis bandwagon, I’m hoping Marquis sneaks in and gets the start. Even if he doesn’t , I think he will be more like the pre-injury Marquis and have a good 2011.
"Pinky, are you pondering what I'm pondering?"--The Brain
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