The Washington Nationals And D.C. GM Mike Rizzo Are Once Again In The Market For An Arm.
The big quote that came out of Mike Rizzo's season-ending chat with the DC press corps had the general manager explaining that he thought the Nats were, "... an outfield bat away and a starting pitcher away from really being a contender in the division," as Washington Times' writer Amanda Comak quoted the D.C. GM explaining in an article entitled, "Rizzo: 'I think we're an outfield bat and a starting pitcher away from really being a contender in the division.'" Why, with Stephen Strasburg, Jordan Zimmermann, John Lannan, Ross Detwiler, Tommy Milone, Brad Peacock and potentially Chien-Ming Wang all in play for spots in the rotation (and Livan Hernandez still a possibility), do the Nationals need another starter? Rizzo explained:
"'(A top starter) puts everybody down a slot and makes everybody much more comfortable," Rizzo said. "This is a grind of a season and when you play a month longer than everybody else into playoff baseball, it takes a lot of starting pitchers to get through the season.'"
On the final episode of The Mike Rizzo show on 106.7 the FAN in D.C. this past Thursday, Rizzo elaborated on why another pitcher is important to getting the Nationals to a place where they can compete with the elite teams in their division.
"I see the Philadelphia Phillies," Rizzo said in response to a caller's question, "which is a team, they're on top, that's the team that we have to knock off the top, and I see them run four quality starters at you every night. They've got a guy on the mound, a starting pitcher, they go four deep quality starts and their fifth guy is pretty good, and I think that's what we have to emulate. That's what we have to get to, and I think when we get to that, and I think that's in the very, very near future, we have a chance to compete with them."
Stephen Strasburg will be on an innings limit next season of course, but with Jordan Zimmermann in his second full-season after Tommy John surgery, he should be good to go the entire year. With Strasburg limited and pitchers like Milone and Peacock at the beginning of their respective careers, the Nationals' GM told another caller that what is important is that, "You have a lot of good young starting pitchers that you can draw from if an injury occurs or if they get tired or if they don't perform well, you have a good deep system where you can reach down and grab them."
"It kind of makes me laugh," Rizzo continued, "when teams talk about they have too many starting pitchers. That's always the statement in Spring Training, it's never the statement in September."
As for the Nats' 2012 staff, the Nationals' GM explained that, "In our situation, we believe that we've got a good deep farm system, which is a good thing... but it takes eight or nine starting pitchers, really, to get through a major league season if we're going to perform at the highest level. We feel that we have that type of depth, finally, in the system, and Davey Johnson is a master at it and he's done it many, many times before and we'll expect him to do it again in 2012."
That pitching depth, Rizzo told reporters, including Washington Post writer Adam Kilgore who quoted the GM in a Nationals Journal Post entitled, "Nationals, Mike Rizzo want to acquire outfielder, starting pitching this offseason", could also allow the Nats to deal for the pitcher or the bat the general manager feels they need: "'Our pitching depth is the best I’ve seen since I’ve been around here, since the Lerners acquired the team,' Rizzo said. 'We certainly would discuss trades to fill some of our needs, if the trade makes sense.'"
This is the same situation the Nationals found themselves in heading into the winter of 2010-11, when they pursued Cliff Lee, explored a trade for Zack Greinke and at least inquired about free agents like Matt Garza before acknowledging the difficulty of acquiring the top-of-the-rotation arm they felt they needed. Have the improvements the Nationals made turned them into a more desirable destination for this year's potential targets? Or will the Nationals reach the same conclusion they did after surveying the market last winter?
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CJ Wilson from Texas?
I actually agree with Rizzo here . . . as salivating the thought is of Prince Fielder, if Adam LaRouche is healthy and Mike Morse isn’t a one-year wonder they should be okay. I would like to see them pursue Wilson and then make a run at either Michael Bourne or BJ Upton to handle center field.
Vote Quimby
Don't think Bourn is a free agent...
Think he’s under team control for another year, assume Braves will offer arbitration? I would not complain if the Nats started the year with Morse, Upton, Werth left to right, but do wonder why Werth was out in center so much, making me wonder if they identified a corner OFer they had interest in.
Vivian Jaffe: "Have you ever transcended space and time?"
Albert Markovski: "Yes. No. Uh, time, not space... No, I don't know what you're talking about."
by Patrick Reddington on Oct 1, 2011 3:10 PM EDT up reply actions
Or if they're prepping for Harper
Brain: "Pinky, are you pondering what i'm pondering?"
Pinky: "Yes, ... wait, ... no, ... never mind"
Harper ...........
will not be ready next season………And frankly………Werth is’nt the greatest CF I ’ve ever……
This team needs a .305/375 hitter…………
Evidence........
You reasoning is what .267 at AA???
Sign Wilson, and Crisp
sign an infielder who can PH, and some OF guys that can pinch hit(not NIx and Gomes). If we can get Wilson I wouldnt be to opposed to Kuroda on a 1 year deal
MOAR SEVERINO!
Berkman! Berkman! Berkman!
Nothing like a first inning homer to shut up the Philthies!
Rob
-- In baseball we trust.
They're cheering again now...after Howard's 3-run jack and then Ibanez' 2-run jack.
TLR kept Lohse in too long…surprise, surprise.
It was obvious to me after the Howard long AB and bomb that Lohse had lost his confidence and certainly his location.
And Doc ain’t gonna leave another one hanging for Berkman today.
"player development" should not be gladiator games. by cat daddy3000 on Aug 6, 2011
Although it feels weird rooting for TLR
when door #2 is Philadelphia, there’s no question
Brain: "Pinky, are you pondering what i'm pondering?"
Pinky: "Yes, ... wait, ... no, ... never mind"
I wouldn't mind Gomes as a 4th outfielder and bat to be honest.
Seems a better choice than Nix.
"I was a victim of a series of accidents. As are we all."
---Malachi Constant
by The Herndon Kid on Oct 1, 2011 9:03 PM EDT up reply actions
+hair on chest
Vivian Jaffe: "Have you ever transcended space and time?"
Albert Markovski: "Yes. No. Uh, time, not space... No, I don't know what you're talking about."
by Patrick Reddington on Oct 1, 2011 10:22 PM EDT up reply actions
Ankiel..........
Ankeil will be the 4th OF…….Behind a freeagent CF, Werth RF, Morse/BERNIE/Nix in LF……….
Getting Gomes made no sense………..
Cj would be decent free agent sign
as long as the contract years arent as bad as Werth. A few years would be a decent deal – any longer and he risks blocking young pitching as it develops. If we sign Fielder – they need to move Morse or Marerro (they wont get a bag of balls for LaRoache).
Ian Desmond is my hero!
At minimum Nats will be in competition with Bosox and Yankees for Wilson. He’ll cost a pretty penny for plenty of years.
Acquisitions
Wilson will cost upwards of $65 million for 3-5 years. Not sure we should go there.
Crisp looks like an option. We missed Bourne. Doubt he will be available, but he is the kind of player we need. I’m skeptical of Upton. Good D, low BA and strikes out a lot. Don’t think that what we need.
I do not think Harper is ready and doubt that we will see him before next September. A lot depends of the Fall League and what he does next spring and early summer.
I would like to see a broad range of options for trhe outfield like: ML ready guys who can be traded for, free agents, guys available on teams that need what we’ve got (young pitching and catchers).
Even with a low average
Upton proves to be a better run producer than Bourn. Career wRC+ of 110 vs. Bourn’s 98. You could argue that Upton’s wRC+ is skewd from his early success but he has still beaten out Bourn in each of the last two seasons (even while batting .237 and .243). So if he can maintain 4 and 5 WAR seasons while batting .240, what do you think he’ll do if he has a good BABIP year and hits .260-.270 like in 2007 or 2008? It’s not impossible because he’s still only 27, two years younger than Bourn and he’s got more major league experience as well.
His low average isn’t going to get him love on ESPN or MLB network, but he’s still one of the best CF around. Everyone here drools over Adam Jones for some reason like he is the guy we need but Upton has been better than Jones in just about every facet other than batting avg.
Whats the frequency, Kenneth?
Pirates
I’m a Pirate fan who follows the Nats also. We’ve got Gorkys Hernandez sitting in AAA with nowhere to go and also Alex Presley who established himself a bit this year and can play a capable CF as well. We also have needs at SP and C.
Gorkys is a former top prospect who can’t really hit but bounced back this year with a .740 OPS at AAA at age 23. He has elite speed that doesn’t always translate on the basepaths and plays superb defense in center. I think he could have a career similar to Nyjer Morgan. Less headcase and BA, better and more consistent D. A low key move like Gorkys for Flores could work for both sides.
Presley is a smallish guy who wasn’t a big prospect coming up but really blew up the last two years. People still doubt him due to his smallish stature (5’ 9") but he put up a .298/.339/.465 line with 9/12 SB in 231 PA. He has good speed and can surprise you with his power when he turns on inside pitches. He’s average on defense with a below average arm. I think a Presley for Lannan framework with minor pieces added in is a good fit for both teams.
Neither of these would be option A for either team most likely, but I think they are still realistic options.
Not sure about either of these trades
I admit that Flores has very little value until he can prove that his bat is back, but I’m not sure that Hernandez or Presley are really upgrades over what the Nationals have in the minor league in the OF queue (Corey Brown, Erik Komatsu, Destin Hood, Eury Perez). The Nationals might be better off re-signing Rick Ankiel as a short-term stop gap until one of the kids is ready. They could also potentially sign another stopgap, like Michael Cuddyer or (if he’s non-tendered) Grady Sizemore.
???
So the guys hitting .235 or the guys in A+ are better? I don’t see it. Same with the injured Sizemore or Cuddyer, who can’t play center. These 2 would each have 5+ years of control and be on minimum contracts. But whatevs, all the Nats other CF options would have to fall through first for them to even think of it.
Eury Perez isn't necessarily better; he was the 4th guy in the queue that I listed
Cory Brown struggled at AAA last year, but as a 24yo in AA hit .320/.415/.502 in AA in 2010; even in his “struggle” year he OPS’d .727 to Hernandez’s .740 (which was Hernandez’s best number posted above A ball). 2012 will probably be Brown’s last shot, but he still has one. That’s what I mean by not being sure that Hernandez is an upgrade. Sickels considers Hernandez to be a C prospect (“He’ll never hit enough to be a regular, but speed and defense might be useful on a bench”). The Sickels quote is from August, btw, so it includes Hernandez’s modest production spike this year. FWIW, Sickels had Corey Brown as a C+/borderline B- prospect.
The Nationals already have plenty of outfielders who aren’t quite good enough to be regulars; they don’t need another one. Before a team makes a move it has to think how it would be getting better. The Nationals are likely better off using their C, IF and/or pitching depth for something other than picking up the Pirates’ #18 prospect. Neither player would make the Nationals’ Top 20 prospect list at all.
Keeping Bernadina and re-signing Ankiel are short term cost effective measures that will give the Nationals more production than Hernandez, and they have OF in the system that are as good or better as prospects (don’t take my word for it; I’m citing Sickels as a disinterested observer). Why would they make that trade?
What does prospect status matter for 2012?
The Nats need production NOW. These are two players who are ready, not prospects. Ankiel won’t provide better production and neither will any of the other guys you mention. Yes, Hernandez will hit very poorly but he’d also be a top 5 defensive CF in MLB. Something like .250/.300/.350 is probably a fair baseline and that’s what they got from Ankiel last year, then you add 10 runs on defense and a few on the basepaths and the team has added a win or two with the chance for more if GH can use his speed to hit .270+.
and, yeah, I can’t see Werth as a full-time CF either, that would be a terrible move.
Clearly we will have to agree to disagree, at least on Hernandez
These are two players who are ready, not prospects
Third party evaluators concur with my opinion that Hernandez isn’t yet a player, and is only marginal as a prospect. Having watched Ankiel play CF, I laugh at the thought that Hernandez will “add 10 runs on defense” over Ankiel. Hernandez is faster, but Ankiel takes good routes to the ball. More importantly, Ankiel has quite possibly the best OF arm in MLB. Runners rarely try to advance on “The Arm” and when they do they are often gunned down. I’ve seen that change games.
Presley, OTOH, is clearly the better of the two players, and clearly worth more than Flores (although I’d endorse Rizzo trading Flores for Presley if he can get him). My only quibble with Presley is that I think that Lannan is worth more than Presley straight up. That’s why I said up the thread that (for me) any Lannan/Presley trade would depend on what else the Pirates brought to the table. The teams may be able to work something out there.
The other thing to remember is that the Nationals aren’t necessarily gunning for 2012; they may well view their window as just opening in 2012 and not peaking until the 2013-2016 period. So letting the kids (Brown, Komatsu, Hood, Goodwin, etc) play and/or develop while Ankiel (etc) backs them up may serve the long time interests of the franchise better.
I'm not sold on CJ Wilson
Who are the other good free agent pitchers who’ll be available this offseason?
Buehrle, Edwin Jackson...
Vivian Jaffe: "Have you ever transcended space and time?"
Albert Markovski: "Yes. No. Uh, time, not space... No, I don't know what you're talking about."
by Patrick Reddington on Oct 2, 2011 12:54 PM EDT up reply actions
He can opt out of last year of deal...and is expected to.
Quotes this morning have him saying there’s no better place to play baseball. What if anything that means for his decision process who knows?
Vivian Jaffe: "Have you ever transcended space and time?"
Albert Markovski: "Yes. No. Uh, time, not space... No, I don't know what you're talking about."
by Patrick Reddington on Oct 2, 2011 3:15 PM EDT up reply actions
"No better place than New York"...
Vivian Jaffe: "Have you ever transcended space and time?"
Albert Markovski: "Yes. No. Uh, time, not space... No, I don't know what you're talking about."
by Patrick Reddington on Oct 2, 2011 3:17 PM EDT up reply actions
they always say stuff like that...
Maybe he misses hitting… I agree he will probably stay BUT if we offer more money it is something to consider. Is his agent Boras? Because if so he will definitely mention us as an option. Even if it is just to drive up the price for the yanks… What will he want another 7 years? 30 per? I feel like it would be less. I’d give up our 1st rounder for that…
Going to the Mets?
PfffHAHAHAHAHAH! Sorry, couldn’t keep a straight face.
"If you ain't got the pants, you ain't got a chance." --PerryMason (on the sartorial component of being a Real Ballplayer)
He will opt out, and the Yankees will pay whatever it takes to keep him there
Sabathia has really fit into the Yankee clubhouse and it’s almost “inconceivable” that he would go anywhere else. The real question is whether the Yankees have enough resources after re-signing him and/or buying out his contract clause to go after more pitching when they are already carrying so many big money contracts on the books (Sabathia, Burnett, Texeira, Jeter, A-Rod, and Rivera) and some expensive options to pick up (Cano, Swisher). They may well be in the mix for Wilson and/or Darvish, but they have some promising prospects that they may decide to go with in the #4 and #5 rotation slots.
Jason Marquis, come on down...
I am aware I’m probably the only one who wants him back with the Nationals. Heck, he could come back to Cubs if it were up to me.
Frankly, that’s not a big list and some of names on the list I’d rather not have on either of my baseball teams.
"Pinky, are you pondering what I'm pondering?"--The Brain
If they don't get one of the top two: Wilson or Darvish...
I’d rather see them spend elsewhere. And I’m not 100% sold on Wilson considering the type of deal he’ll get or Darvish considering the cost. But prefere Darvish cause he’s younger, has filthy stuff and only costs $$$…
Vivian Jaffe: "Have you ever transcended space and time?"
Albert Markovski: "Yes. No. Uh, time, not space... No, I don't know what you're talking about."
by Patrick Reddington on Oct 2, 2011 3:19 PM EDT up reply actions
NO............
It would be a better Idea to let Milone, Peacock and all others finish out that 5th spot……..With Livo in the pen……….
Much as sentiment says otherwise
I don’t think Livo can live as a long reliever. All the reports are he has an extended prep routine on the days he’s pitching. If he can’t predict when he’s pitching…
MissB and others have commented on how long it took Gorzelanny to warm up; Livo will make him look like a closer, in comparison.
Brain: "Pinky, are you pondering what i'm pondering?"
Pinky: "Yes, ... wait, ... no, ... never mind"
Kuroda wouldn't be a bad signing on a 1 year deal
MOAR SEVERINO!
by jeff550 on Oct 2, 2011 5:56 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions

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