Did the Nationals win the Matt Capps deal?
The Nationals made an excellent deal when they traded Matt Capps to the Minnesota Twins. First of all, Matt Capps sucks. He had an 4.25 ERA which is awful for a reliever. He had a good year last year and he blew 9 saves. Anyways, the Nationals got Wilson Ramos, who's not that great but he is a solid catcher and he has potential. Joe Testa was the other guy they got and he has a 1.42 ERA in Potomac. I think Minnesota lost the deal.
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Huh? Ramos is not that great?
Wow. Ramos is already one of the best defensive catchers in the league, he calls a good game, and he’s got a fair amount of power. He’s a very reasonable candidate for Rookie of the Year!
The Nats robbed the Twins blind on this one.
Rob
-- In baseball we trust.
by RobBobS on Oct 6, 2011 8:10 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
It's not about winning and losing.
Although, yeah, the Nationals won. Promote Joe Testa!
"If you ain't got the pants, you ain't got a chance." --PerryMason (on the sartorial component of being a Real Ballplayer)
Great deal for the Nats.
Wilson Ramos had the 2nd highest WAR for a rookie in the NL according to FANGRAPH.L He was behind Danny Espinosa.
And according to BBR, who I tend to believe more,
they came out tied with 2.5 WAR each.
Rob
-- In baseball we trust.
Amazingly, it's not the most lopsided deal in recent Nats history
I’d have to say that Jonathan Albaladejo for Tyler Clippard and Ryan Langerhans for Mike Morse have to rank ahead of the Ramos deal. But I agree with RobBob – Ramos has already established himself as a better-than-average ML catcher, and still has growth potential. I wouldn’t be surprised if the embarrassment of that deal factored into Minnesota’s reluctance to trade Spann to the Nationals at the deadline this year.
The Clippard and Morse deals have produced more in the short term than Ramos.
However, I think Ramos will end up being more valuable in the long term, especially when you consider team control. Relievers are volatile, corner sluggers are commonplace, and both are heading for arbitration/free agency much sooner than Wilson.
"If you ain't got the pants, you ain't got a chance." --PerryMason (on the sartorial component of being a Real Ballplayer)
Remember the other side of the equation
Capps is at least still playing. Albaladejo seems to be out of baseball, and Langerhans has netted 0.3 WAR in the three seasons since the deal.
IIRC, Albaladejo played in Japan this year.
Langerhans played at a lower level, in Seattle…
Brain: "Pinky, are you pondering what i'm pondering?"
Pinky: "Yes, ... wait, ... no, ... never mind"
Yeah, but consider salary and team control, too.
Capps was going to be a FA, so he would have taken money to sign if the Nats had wanted to keep him—more money than the league minimum Ramos will be earning for the next few years… I think two months of Capps for six years of Ramos is a pretty good swap (okay, maybe less than that—I haven’t looked up his pre-Nats service time, although I think it was pretty low).
"If you ain't got the pants, you ain't got a chance." --PerryMason (on the sartorial component of being a Real Ballplayer)
easy answer
rizzo traded a volatile commodity at its peak while he had a surplus for an area of need with high growth potential
Yeah, well, you know, that's just like, uh, your opinion man
huge deal for nats
The Nationals got a catcher for the next 10 years. Five more years of team control. He’s great at defense and has a great bat considering his defensive ability at catcher. Three passed balls all year and 48 stolen bases against in 113 games. Matt Capps is an above average reliever – he’ll bounce back, but he’s not a shutdown closer. I agree with what those above me have said. Considering how Morse does in the next couple of years, this may be the best trade of the three.
how sick is wilson ramos?
this kid is gonna be a star soon, the nats definitely won this deal. but seriously watching ramos swing the stick just gives me so much excitement, i will bet my life’s savings on this guy, he will be a perennial all-star someday. quote me on that because i have 100% confidence.
by RossingtonCollins on Oct 7, 2011 10:07 PM EDT reply actions
I just want to know who is arguing for Minny?
I’m not sure why this is a question. Huge win for Nats.
I obviously love the deal for the Nats
I don’t think I’ve really heard anyone argue that the Twins came out ahead in the deal, but they got what they were after…. a short-term solution to fill their closer’s role while they made their playoff push in 2010. An argument for the Twins could be this……….
At the time of the trade, the Twins had recently signed former AL MVP and three-time batting champ Joe Mauer to handle their catching duties for a long time. It was doubtful that they thought that Ramos (who was failing to build on a breakout 2009 campaign in AAA himself last season) was ever going to be more than a major league backup for their organization who could possibly take over the starting role if the unthinkable (oops) happened and Mauer needed replacing behind the plate. While I’m sure that some of the medical issues Mauer has had in his career might have been red flags, it’s hard to imagine that they thought his ability to handle being the everyday catcher would deteriorate as quickly as it (seemingly) has. From their perspective, Ramos was a solid catching prospect who they thought might never repeat the success he had in 2009. From their angle, they wanted to sell him high, and hadn’t had much luck in doing so that season (he was reported in several rumors for higher profile players than Capps).
While Jon Rauch had actually performed quite well in the closer’s role for the Twins in 2010 prior to the Capps-Ramos trade, Capps did give the team enough depth in the bullpen so that they could pretty much put the game on lockdown if they had a lead after the seventh inning with the two of them combined. Neither was a truly dominant closer, but both had effective 2010 seasons. It’s important to note that the Twins tied for the division crown, won (at home) the AL Central in Game 163, and hosted one playoff game. While they were ousted in the first round, that’s two extra (high revenue…. sellouts, or at least close to sellouts) home games they got out of Capps.
That (well… preferably more than that. I’m sure a deep playoff run/World Series title would have been the best case scenario) is what the Twins were after in making the deal, and it helped them to achieve it (to some degree). Capps was very strong down the stretch for Minnesota in 2010, and given that they needed a one-game playoff to win the AL Central, it shouldn’t be that difficult to argue that they might have missed the playoffs (and those two extra home games’ worth of revenue) had they not made the deal.
They failed miserably when they avoided arbitration by signing Capps for $7.15 million this past season, though….. While he was coming off of a nice season and it was his final season of arbitration, I find it hard to think that he would have been awarded more than $6 million (don’t know what the figures that would have been submitted were, but even that seems a bit egregious) had they just gone through with arbitration.
Of course…..
- Capps pretty much imploded in 2011 (-0.4 fWAR)
- Ramos had a terrific rookie season (outstanding defensively, and not so bad at the dish either… 3.1 fWAR)
- Mauer’s leg issues became enough of an issue so that he only started 47 games as a catcher (16 at 1b, 1 in the OF, spent some time as a DH)
I loved the deal at the time. Hindsight is 20/20. I’m not sure love is a strong enough word for how I feel about the deal now. The Nats made out like bandits.
by bluelineswinger on Oct 15, 2011 4:39 AM EDT up reply actions
Left out the last part of the conclusion (illustrated in the post)
But the Twins did achieve what they were after in making the deal.
by bluelineswinger on Oct 15, 2011 4:40 AM EDT up reply actions
Such is the nature of these types of deals
The Twins got precisely what they wanted for the short-term, and they took a risk on the future of the guy they gave up. As it turns out, the guy they gave up was probably on the better end of the scale, and had they known at the time about how Ramos would fare (ignoring what happened to Mauer) they would not have done it.
Rob
-- In baseball we trust.
I imagine that clairvoyance would be a useful skill for a GM
Deadline deals have gone either way. The Cardinals gave up 3 or 4 guys for Mark McGuire, but they never amounted to much and McGuire re-signed with St. Louis and hit a bunch of homers for them. The Yankees probably wouldn’t have won the WS without David Justice the year they picked him up, and the prospects they gave up didn’t amount to much. This time Rizzo sold high and banked his profit nicely. The Gomes deal, not so much (especislly if Manno keeps rising). Such is the life of a GM.
by d_c_guy on Oct 15, 2011 1:59 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
It's a common event
which often gives the contending team what they need, even if it isn’t enough. John Smoltz for Doyle Alexander; Craig Biggio for Larry Anderson; Scott Kazmir for Victor Zambrano (oops, sorry Mets fans); and the king — Feliz, Andrus, Harrison, Saltilamaccia for Texiera. etc.
It’s always fun being on fhe end that gets the prospect wo turns out big. Looking forward to the day when Rizzo deals from a surplus of prospects to get the missing piece for the Nats’ pennant run …
Brain: "Pinky, are you pondering what i'm pondering?"
Pinky: "Yes, ... wait, ... no, ... never mind"
Ramos is great and we crushed in that deal!
"What you know is often the enemy of what you can learn" Bill James
Definitely a win by the Nats
The Nationals absolutely won this deal. This deal represents what the trade deadline is all about. It forced the Twins to panic and trade for whatever they could get to help them in the short term.

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