Washington Nationals In On Prince Fielder? It Doesn't Have To Make Sense.
In the first teleconference of the winter of 2011, D.C. Mike Rizzo spoke to reporters about the progress of 32-year-old first baseman Adam LaRoche, who had surgery to repair a torn labrum and rotator cuff damage in his shoulder last summer, but was expected to be ready to start the 2012 season healthy. "[LaRoche] started throwing just last week," the Nats' general manager told reporters in the last week of October, "He will be [on] a throwing program and building up to prepare for Spring Training, and he should be full go at Spring Training is the word that I got from not only Adam but from our medical staff."
LaRoche, who eventually shut it down last year when it became clear he couldn't play through his injury, is under contract for one more year at $8M dollars, so when talk has turned to potential free agent targets this winter as it did during an MLB Network Radio interview in early November, the Nats' GM has downplayed the possibility that Washington would be in the market for any of the big name position players like Jose Reyes, Jimmy Rollins, Albert Pujols or Prince Fielder.
Asked directly by MLB Network Radio host and former Nationals' GM Jim Bowden if it was safe to assume from what he'd said that Rizzo wasn't going for those targets, the current general manager said, "I think that's a safe assumption. Things can change rapidly in this business. If a spot were to become available because of a trade if you trade a shortstop or a first baseman type of thing then you may be in that market place, but as it stands right now today in November, we feel that we're set at shortstop, second base and first base."
In an article earlier this fall entitled, "LaRoche getting closer to baseball activities", from (10/17/11), LaRoche told MLB.com's Bill Ladson that,"... the Nationals didn't promise that he would play every day at the position next season," but LaRoche, noting his own contract drew the same conclusion just about anyone who's examined the situation has as he told the MLB.com writer, "'Obviously, anything can happen. That's their decision. That's a pretty big investment for someone who is not playing. I don't know what direction they would go. Obviously, anything is possible.'"
Of course, as early as last September, while the Nationals were publicly stating that they probably wouldn't get involved in the market for first baseman this winter, writers like ESPN.com's Jayson Stark were warning, as he did in a 9/9/11 "Rumblings and Grumblings" column, that if you thought the presence of LaRoche on the Nats' roster or Michael Morse's big season spent mostly at first would deter Rizzo from pursuing, "... someone like Albert Pujols this winter," then you might, as he put it, "... be underestimating Rizzo's drive to build something great."
"Without discussing either of the two monster free-agent first basemen (Pujols and Prince Fielder) by name," Mr. Stark wrote, "Rizzo says first base wouldn't be at the top of his team's list of places to spend its ample resources -- 'but you never want to say never. You never know.'"
New York Post writer Joel Sherman, in a mid-October article entitled, "If Sabathia opts out of contract, Yankees will have competition", had the Nationals on his short list of teams interested in potential free agent left-hander CC Sabathia if he had decided to opt out of him contract and leave New York, but the Post sports writer also reported that while the Nats would likely pursue available pitching options this winter, "Still, there is an expectation that Washington's big money this offseason is targeted toward Prince Fielder."
"The Nats believe they are on the verge of being a winner and can become a big-market team if they are regular contenders," Mr. Sherman wrote, "Plus the same situation that instigated the Werth signing -- an aging owner, Ted Lerner, who wants results now and an ambitious son, Mark, who wants to put his stamp on the team, remain." Signing 27-going-on-28-year-old Prince Fielder would certainly be one way to put a stamp on the team. The '02 Milwaukee Brewers' 1st Round pick is coming off a .299/.415/.566 season, his seventh in the majors, in which he hit 36 doubles, 38 HR's and finished at +5.5 WAR while helping lead the Brewers to the NLCS where they lost to the eventual World Series champion Cardinals.
According to FOXSports.com's Jon Paul Morosi's sources the Nationals are in on Fielder. The FOXsports.com reporter, in an article this morning entitled, "Pujols, Fielder top free-agent market", writes that the soon-to-be-former Brewer, "... has been pursued by a group believed to include the Cubs, Nationals, Rangers and Mariners.":
"Boras declined to say which teams have offered Fielder a contract, but he pointed out that his biggest free-agent hitter last offseason (Jayson Werth) signed the night before the winter meetings began – with a team (Washington) no one expected.
"'People were still at the airport,' Boras said. 'The most predictable part of the winter meetings is the lack of predictability.'"
Are the Nationals in the discussion just because they've spent and offered big money recently? Possibly. They've been mentioned in connection with just about every big name on the market in the last few seasons. Are they actually in the running for Fielder in spite of their protestations? Those "you never knows" have a way of keeping Washington in the discussion, but with the Mike Rizzo's leakproof front office no one really knows. Is Mike "Run Silent" Rizzo (as Washington Post writer Thomas Boswell referred to him recently) up to his old tricks again? Will the Washington Nationals shock the baseball world for the second straight winter?
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Really impressed with the quality of writing on this site lately. Mr. Reddington, you are doing a great job. Even though I would primarily describe myself as a hockey fan, I can’t wait for opening day in 2012 to see what these boys can do.
"Just the fact that I knew something was bad, I knew it was probably broken, I knew I'd have to miss some time--that makes me upset more than anything."
by QuintinLainged on Nov 28, 2011 3:22 PM EST reply actions 3 recs
Much appreciated. Here's hoping this is the year we've all been waiting for since '05.
Vivian Jaffe: "Have you ever transcended space and time?"
Albert Markovski: "Yes. No. Uh, time, not space... No, I don't know what you're talking about."
by Patrick Reddington on Nov 28, 2011 3:29 PM EST up reply actions
a giggity giggity giggity...
You guys. You lollygag the ball around the infield. You lollygag your way down to first. You lollygag in and out of the dugout. You know what that makes you? Larry!
Personally, I think that Rizzo is just messing with RobBob
While also doing his “pal” Boras a favor
by d_c_guy on Nov 28, 2011 3:30 PM EST via mobile reply actions
When RZO figured out who the guy always yelling "WILLLLSON!" from the seats behind him was, he hatched his cruel plan of deception.
Vivian Jaffe: "Have you ever transcended space and time?"
Albert Markovski: "Yes. No. Uh, time, not space... No, I don't know what you're talking about."
by Patrick Reddington on Nov 28, 2011 3:32 PM EST up reply actions
Having watched the Star Wars marathon *twice* this last weekend
I can’t help but to read this comment as an attempt to equate GM Rizzo with Chancellor Palpatine.
Rizzo’s very likely to utter “everything is proceeding as I have foreseen it.”, or some such, in the near future.
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You never see these guys in the same room…
Rob
-- In baseball we trust.
The RZO:
"My name is The RZO and I now utterly control this galaxy. Recently I summoned those with the darkest hearts to come to Washington for the chance to win the dream job for any bad guy."
Vivian Jaffe: "Have you ever transcended space and time?"
Albert Markovski: "Yes. No. Uh, time, not space... No, I don't know what you're talking about."
by Patrick Reddington on Nov 29, 2011 1:15 AM EST up reply actions
Yeah but Rizzo just left the door slightly open
the only source in the Morosi article is Boras and maybe RobBob… I just don’t think that Bora is trustworthy. I’m sure the Nats would grab Fielder if no one was interested and it was a deal, but Boras doesn’t let his clients get fleeced by the team he fleeces the team. Boras is just trying to drive the price up. If no one bites and the price is “reasonable” maybe Rizzo signs him…
The quote is Rizzo essentially saying that he won’t be signing Fielder:
“I think that’s a safe assumption. Things can change rapidly in this business. If a spot were to become available because of a trade if you trade a shortstop or a first baseman type of thing then you may be in that market place, but as it stands right now today in November, we feel that we’re set at shortstop, second base and first base.”
Unless Rizzo is trading Morse and LaRoche for a centerfielder… we ain’t getting Fielder…
I believe this sort of thing was observed by souldrummer last year
I think there must be something to it.
Rob
-- In baseball we trust.
Yep.
If RobBobS likes it, Rizzo won’t do it. Of course, you were all over Adam Dunn and it’s safe to say point Rizzo on that one.
Waiting to bang my drum in parades for the Nats and Caps.
by souldrummer on Nov 28, 2011 11:39 PM EST up reply actions
With luck, Dunn will rebound in 2012
so I won’t have to hear about this anymore.
Rob
-- In baseball we trust.
Is it a bad omen of the future that Fielder's head is larger than and eclipsing the moon
or is it just the Marcaine and cortisone affecting my brain?
Brain: "Pinky, are you pondering what i'm pondering?"
Pinky: "Yes, ... wait, ... no, ... never mind"
I think that Rizzo is messing with us.
More accurately, though, I think that Rizzo is messing with the other GMs, because forcing someone else to break their banks is good strategery.
Spelling intentional.
"I just want to tell you both good luck. We're all counting on you."
-Leslie Nielsen, Airplane
Morosi's colleague's got more chatter on the way...
@Ken_Rosenthal: “Sources: #Nationals pursuing Fielder. Talks hit roadblock today. Cespedes possible alternative. Story coming on FOXSports.com. #MLB”
Vivian Jaffe: "Have you ever transcended space and time?"
Albert Markovski: "Yes. No. Uh, time, not space... No, I don't know what you're talking about."
by Patrick Reddington on Nov 28, 2011 6:06 PM EST reply actions
Bad news for RobBob
Rosenthal says we might sign Fielder, and how often his he right?
MOAR SEVERINO!
I find it hard to believe ANYONE in the press has inside info on how discussions are going
I find it hard to believe anyone in the press has inside info on whether there are actually discussions going on!
Rob
-- In baseball we trust.
I belive that some of the local guys have legit sources
Kilgore, Ladson, Zuckerman, etc, but the rest is just guesses. I would love Fielder on the nats, I just dont see it happening
MOAR SEVERINO!
Has Rosenthal been correct on ANY of his comments regarding the Nats? Ever? And when he is wrong, isn’t he usually critical of the Nats? I’m not a big fan of Rosenthal. Keith Law is another one who seems overly critical at times against the Nats….but at least he is more accurate than Rosenthal; I actually do enjoy reading Law from time to time.
"Integrity First, Service Before Self, Excellence In All We Do" - USAF Core Values
Law actually is a pretty big fan of the Nats farm system
Although he isn’t as bullish on Peacock as some others are. But the franchise he really trashes is Baltimore – earlier this month he twittered that distressed Oriole fans should become Nats fans :-)
Throw enough stuff at the wall, and eventually something sticks
There might be an alternate reality somewhere in which Rizzo 1) deals LaRoche & Marrero to the Cubs for Zambrano & a truckload of Zoloft, 2) signs Fielder to a reasonable 5-year deal, and moves say Desmond, Eury Perez, and Flores to Tampa for Upton. Snag three big wants (SP, Fielder, Upton) & clear two percieved problems (overload at 1B, defense at SS).
I just don’t see any of that in OUR reality.
"Things are going great, and they're only gettin' better..." Timbuk3
in a different direction...
What would it cost to trade for McCutchen? Almost definitely more than we want to spend, BUT what would it take? Cole, Norris, Solis, and a PTBNL (Rendon)? I am assuming they want prospects and not players… Too much? How badly, would we want a center fielder?
I’m also just trying to avoid grading papers… Why can’t my students, write?
Cole, Norris, Solis, and Rendon might get it done
maybe throw in Lannan, and Marrero instead of Solis. It would be intersting to see what the Pirate fans think hes worth. You might need someone like JZimm in there to get the deal done, though
MOAR SEVERINO!
Not Rendon
He can’t be traded until 1 year after he was drafted. I also think the remaining Pirates fans may riot and storm the castle…
Brain: "Pinky, are you pondering what i'm pondering?"
Pinky: "Yes, ... wait, ... no, ... never mind"
PTBNL would work for Rendon
I still think that all talks would start and end with JZimm, or Ramos
MOAR SEVERINO!
Don't cut off the head & expect the body to survive
Giving up two starters plus prospects for a CF is suicide, even if he is a leadoff hitter.
"Things are going great, and they're only gettin' better..." Timbuk3
I'm pretty sure we could get along without that group if we had McCutchen
It doesn’t appear that we plan to keep Norris anyway. Solis and Cole project to #3-4 starters, which aren’t that hard to pick up. And our rotation is pretty young anyway, so they seem more like surplus than depth. Rendon would be a major loss, but wouldn’t rather that bat on a CF? I would doubt Pittsburgh would take this trade anyway.
Flores, Lannan, and LaRoche?
"I just want to tell you both good luck. We're all counting on you."
-Leslie Nielsen, Airplane
McCutchen
I wrote a few weeks back that the Nats should look at McCutchen. On MLBtraderumors it says he is available with a 365 OBP and a centerfielder!!! Do this before going after fielder
What it would take to get him would be a stupid trade for the Nationals
but if they Pirates took any less, they would be dumb. Hes is to good, and has to many years left to be traded
MOAR SEVERINO!
He is one of the only ones I wouldn’t mind seeing the Nats trade for….but you are correct, it would take a monumental offer to get him. But hey…..if the Nats get Fielder, I think you could throw Morse in that trade offer? Along with Flores? And maybe Lombardozzi? Phil Wood said it would likely take 5 players to snare McCutchen from the Pirates.
"Integrity First, Service Before Self, Excellence In All We Do" - USAF Core Values
Pittsburg
They are rebuilding, so why not get a lot of young talent for 1 super player and set themselves up like hte Nats have. They have a lot of high draft pick arms that will be ther in 2-3 years so why not add a Norris, Laroche (we pick up the salary, Millone, and Lombardozzi). I think Pitt is only 2 years behind the Nats in there development of homegrown talent so it would make sense. That way the Nats could have Harper McC and Werth in the outfield and Morse at 1B, A McC, Desi, Zimm, Morse, Werth, Harper, Ramos, Espi line up is pretty strong. Or even better dream and pay Reyes to replace desi and put him 1 with McC 2.
Would you have been willing to give up Zimmerman in a trade like that? To help us rebuild? McCutchen is their Zimmerman. If we had him, would you trade him for Norris, Milone, Lombardozzi and LaRoche? BTW…..They’ve already had LaRoche, AND his brother….I doubt they want him back. It’s gonna take a HUGE offer to get them to trade him.
"Integrity First, Service Before Self, Excellence In All We Do" - USAF Core Values
There is no possible way the Pittsburg trades McCuthen for Norris, LaRoche, Lombo, and Milone
McCuthen is a potential HOF’er and is under team control till 2015, it would take more than a one year rental, 2 C prospects, and a B prospect. It would take at least one young MLB player, a top of the line prospect, and some other prospects. We would have to give up so much of the farm system, and some of our “core” to get him, and I dont think its worth it
MOAR SEVERINO!
ESPN Insider is reporting, however, that he is certainly not untouchable, apparently because of their inablility to agree on a multi-year deal. Don’t want to quote too much of the article though, since it is insider material, but even with that news, I agree that it would take a monumental offer to get him.
"Integrity First, Service Before Self, Excellence In All We Do" - USAF Core Values
Oh, I dont think he untoucable, but I think all talks would start with Jzimm or Ramos, and the nats wouldnt be willing to do that
MOAR SEVERINO!
Enticing. Don’t know about that. I think Zim(nn) or Ramos could certainly be involved in those types of discussions. Not for an Upton….but for McCutchen?
"Integrity First, Service Before Self, Excellence In All We Do" - USAF Core Values
I’d like to see how our core plays out. I think that it’s commonly agreed that not trading Zim(nn) for Greinke turned out to be one of our best moves. The same can probably be said for not including a core piece like Zimmermann in a McCutchen move.
Waiting to bang my drum in parades for the Nats and Caps.
by souldrummer on Nov 28, 2011 11:44 PM EST up reply actions
I agree, but we do have some surplus players that could be very good.
Not trading Zimmermann was a good idea because you need multiple good SPs. However, we have several 2b and catchers that we could trade. Probably not enough to get it done though.
I actually think we could pry Ethier away from the Dodgers before we could pry McCutchen away from the Pirates anyway….but you are correct.
"Integrity First, Service Before Self, Excellence In All We Do" - USAF Core Values
I second this. Salary dumps are more in our wheelhouse.
Waiting to bang my drum in parades for the Nats and Caps.
by souldrummer on Nov 29, 2011 12:27 AM EST up reply actions
Why would you want Ethier?
He’s an aging corner OF that wants to be paid like Vernon Wells, despite only being slightly above average.
It is harder to find a plus-defending CF than a lead-off hitter. Therefore, I would rather trade for Brett Jackson, Starling Marte, or Che-Hsuan Lin.
You may be the only fan NOT interested in Ethier….although I do like Brett Jackson and Starling Marte A LOT. However, good luck with prying those guys away from their organizations. BTW….Ethier is only 29, so I wouldn’t consider him to be ready for the old folks home quite yet, and I think there are many others who feel he is a little better than being only “slightly” above average.
"Integrity First, Service Before Self, Excellence In All We Do" - USAF Core Values
I've always been an Ethier fan,
but I’ve got to admit he’s a bit over-rated. Although he was an All-Star the last two years, he’s not really played to All Star level since his big 2009. He’s had a few injuries, which explain part of the decline in production. In the end, I wouldn’t mind him on the team, but I don’t think the $10M+ it’ll take to keep him will be worth it.
Rob
-- In baseball we trust.
If we are talking about trading for McCutchen,
then we can talk about trading for Marte or Jackson. I think Jackson is unlikely because he is the 1 prospect for the Cubs, so he might be untradeable, as we are unlikely to surrender more top prospects.
I am actually pretty bullish on Che-Hsuan Lin, but I don’t know anything about swing mechanics. If Davey and Co. don’t think that he’ll develop enough to hit gap power frequently enough to draw walks, then we should probably stay away. Lin is a plus defender in CF, and has posted some incredibly high OBP in the minors. I would be happy with him if he were hitting .650+ OPS so long as he was posting a .350 OBP. Additionally, the Red Sox have a crowded outfield, and sorely need all kinds of pitching, so the Nationals could likely connect on a fair deal without selling the farm. This is especially true because most of the Nationals spare pitching is 4 or 5 slot guys and non-closing relievers. Important pieces but not generally the most valuable.
A .650 OPS with a .350 OBP?
I don’t want no punch-and-judy’s on the Nationals!
Rob
-- In baseball we trust.
Rob, hasn't this thread already covered
that the Nationals FO exists only to make you life miserable?
Besides, we have plenty of power, and Lin has more speed than a prep school at finals. So, he’ll beg for the first base and steal second, and come home on a single. Or he’ll be a 1st to 3rd guy.
Finally, obviously I would prefer he put up generally higher numbers, but I could live with a get on base machine whose defense kills.
If he's going to have one offensive weapon (OBP)
it better be closer to .370-.380 than in the .350 range.
Leadoff hitters with no power are often wasted space: not when they are leading off innings but when, for example, the #7 guy doubles with one out. In such a situation the pitcher has essentially four tries to record two outs. He can throw junk to the #8 guy hoping he’ll get himself out, he gets the pitcher batting ninth, and he gets a leadoff hitter who may not drive in a run even if he gets on. My estimation: if Ramos batting 7th doubles with one out in the fourth inning, and he’s got Desmond, Pitcher, SlappyJack, and Espinosa/Werth coming up, there’s about a 20% chance that Ramos scores, while the RE for such a situation should be closer to .75.
Rob
-- In baseball we trust.
I see no logic to your statement
A solid base hit will bring home a player on second, unless he’s Prince Fielder. Assuming your estimation, (Ramos batting 7th, on second, one out). Then something must happen with 8 and Pitcher. Either they get on base, or they are out. If they are both get on through walks, then a single by Lin would score 2, a walk one, and an out moves to 2 hitter. If both get on via hits, then Ramos should already have scored (and generally 8 too). If one gets a hit, then Ramos should score. If both are out, then Lin leads off.
The only problematic situation occurs when one gets on and one gets out without advancing the runner. And then yes, I would prefer a player other than Lin to be at the plate. Assuming that Washington, re-signs Ankiel I think that he would do great as a pinch hitter in this rarely occurring situation.
I see your dig at Fielder
but the fact of the matter is that he’s a faster(better) runner than Ramos.
Desmond works a walk, pitcher strikes out. SlappyJack will need a solid single (and I mean solid) to score Ramos. But SlappyJack (by your metric) doesn’t usually do that, having a BA in the .250 range — a lot of his hits come from bunt and infield singles. So he has to manage that (or a walk), which his does 35% of the time, and then Espinosa/Werth has to cash them in. Bottom line, the Nats would need a few things to go their way to score that run.
Rob
-- In baseball we trust.
Well, one of my conditions for wanting to acquire Lin
was that talent evaluators believe they could get him to “gap power”.
Lin is still young, and drawing double-digit walks in the minors, is encouraging that he knows how to recognize strikes. I don’t know that we’ve seen pitchers really challenging him, yet, because by and large pitchers are in the minors to learn control and deception.
I’ll agree that he might not work, but I think that it is an avenue to be explored.
If he had 'gap power'
he probably wouldn’t have a SLG of .300. But your point is taken.
Rob
-- In baseball we trust.
Try .820 OPS and .365 OBP
McCutchen hit 23 HRs with over 30 2Bs last year – he’s by far more than a punch-and-judy hitter. I’m not sure he’s worth what we’d have to give up (probably Espy, Storen +2 or 3) but let’s be honest about what he is. A premier two-way CF who’s very young.
We Aim to Maim - JoseRijo es mi Amigo aka court
by rfk428 on Nov 29, 2011 5:38 PM EST via iPhone app up reply actions
Our catchers and 2B guys are B prospects at best. Even Espinosa and Desmond wouldn’t really dent this deal. Maybe a year from now when we see how our 2011 draft pans out will be able to start considering this kind of move. But we’re not going to move Bryce Harper and they aren’t going to move McCutchen for what we’ve got on the farm.
Waiting to bang my drum in parades for the Nats and Caps.
by souldrummer on Nov 29, 2011 12:27 AM EST up reply actions
Oh, I agee that it likely won't get done.
But I think that the Prirates might blink if we gave them a new core of players. They have another top-flight CF prospect in Starling Marte in AA. Assuming that we signed Fielder, and traded Morse, Norris, Solis, Zach Walters, and Brad Meyers. I think that would be a defensible trade in terms of WAR. Alternatively, we could trade Marrero, and add another pitching prospect, because the Prirates rotation is thier biggest weakness. In general, I doubt that a trade will be able to be made here, but the Pirates are still a team that can gain a great deal by with a number of above average talents (3 or 4 WAR players).
Maybe I would of if I knew that 2-3 years down the road I would have a top notch SS, a solid #3 and a high on base % catcher. By the time they are ready to compete he is going to be gone anywatys so why not continue the stockpile like hte Nats and KC have done. With him it isn’t like they are going to close this year. I love Zimm but if he has another injury year he now joins the list of high priced/ high risk options. He has missed huge chunks of time the last 2 years and we have had to survive.
I am not sure of what it would take but Pitt is looking for 1b, 2nd base, and a catcher. We have a surplus at all 3 positions if Rendon works out. So throw in Laroche and add Marrero as their future 1B.
I think you are over-valuing our prospects
Norris just hit .210 in AA and still can’t catch. Millone may not be a major league player. And Marrero is a slap hitter at a position that demands power. That is how much of the league looks at these guys. I hope Norris gets moved to a situation where he can play and I hope Millone pans out, but they do no comprise a package that gets you McCutcheon.
"I was a victim of a series of accidents. As are we all."
---Malachi Constant
by The Herndon Kid on Nov 29, 2011 6:43 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
Yes its going to take..........
Peacock, Solis, Norris, and Rendon/DEZ/ Espi………….
McCutcheon!!!!!!
I have been speaking of McCutcheon for close to 18 months now every one…………JUMP ON BOARD……Appologies are accepted at the door.
However:
JZIMM and Ramos need to be put on the untouchable list. With Espinosa close behind. We have pitchers up and down the ORG to trade. JZIMM is our #2 for the next 5 years. He never leaves.
Everyone has been talking about him for 18 months now, that’s why he isn’t available.
Aim for the head baby Jesus
by Doncosmic on Nov 29, 2011 10:12 AM EST up reply actions 2 recs

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