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The Washington Nationals' Search For A Starter No Easier This Winter.

MIAMI GARDENS, FL - SEPTEMBER 28:  Stephen Strasburg #37 of the Washington Nationals pitches during a game against the Florida Marlins at Sun Life Stadium on September 28, 2011 in Miami Gardens, Florida.  (Photo by Mike Ehrmann/Getty Images)

The Washington Nationals looked into Cliff Lee last winter. How seriously? Jayson Werth reportedly talked to his former Philadelphia Phillies teammate about signing somewhere together. But when Werth signed in D.C. and Lee inked a deal to return to the city of Brotherly Love, the Nats moved on to one of the other two players they were later revealed to have targeted in their attempts to add a top-of-the-rotation arm to their pitching staff.

Then-29-year-old Rockies' lefty Jorge De La Rosa turned down what was rumored to be a 3-year/$30-33 million dollar offer from the Nats to return to Colorado for less money in the first week of December 2010, then Lee signed with the Phillies on the 15th and four days later reports emerged which said Zack Greinke had used his partial no-trade clause to block a potential trade from Kansas City to the nation's capital in a deal which Washington Post writer Thomas Boswell wrote in a chat this past October would have sent one of three top prospects (Jordan Zimmermann, Drew Storen or Danny Espinosa), "... plus a [Roger] Bernadina and perhaps a catcher (not [Wilson] Ramos)," to the Royals.

Star-divide

"The Nats and Royals never got anywhere close to picking the actual Nats players in the trade," the WaPost writer noted. Greinke, it was later learned, could have had a 5-year/$90 million dollar extension with Washington, but he blocked the trade and was later deal to Milwaukee.

"The Nats stood on their heads for days trying to convince," Greinke to come to the nation's capital," Mr. Boswell later wrote in an article on Adam LaRoche signing with Washington. Mr. Boswell's colleague at the Washington Post, Dave Sheinin, talked to Greinke several months later for an article entitled, "Desire to win now kept Greinke from joining Nationals", in which he revealed that "high-ranking" Nationals officials, including owner Theodore Lerner, had met with the former Cy Young Award-winner in a, "... a clandestine meeting... in Orlando during baseball’s winter meetings."

"They convinced me they were really trying, and I believe them," Greinke told the Washington Post's Mr. Sheinin, but the point in getting out of Kansas was to go somewhere he could win and he didn't see the Nationals as being ready right now, and thought it would be less likely after they dealt the players it would take to acquire him. "I respect everything about the Nationals," the pitcher said, "And I’m not a guy who goes around saying that about every team." Washington would go on to win 80 games and finish the 2011 season third in the NL East. Greinke would make his first playoff appearance with the Brewers seven years after he'd debuted with Kansas City.

How involved the Nationals ever got in talks with Carl Pavano or trade discussions with the Rays for Matt Garza is unclear, but Pavano eventually signed on to return to Minnesota and Garza was dealt to the Cubs, effectively ending the Nats' search for a top-of-the-rotation arm.

The Nats' GM entered the pitching market knowing how hard it would be to find a starter. Rizzo told Washington Post writer Adam Kilgore in November 2010 article entitled, "The Nationals' search for a top starter won't be easy", that though the Nationals wanted to add an arm and would explore "every avenue," ultimately with the high price in cash or prospects it would take, he said, "'... if we have to wait until [2012] to obtain it, and Stephen Strasburg and Jordan Zimmermann become that 1 and 2 and supplement it in 2012,'" then that's what they'd do.

"'It shows the difficulty of trying to build something,'" Washington Post writer Thomas Boswell quoted Rizzo saying after the Greinke deal failed to materialize, "'The only thing that convinces players to come is winning. It's the chicken and the egg. Which comes first?'" The Nationals aimed high last winter, signing Werth and trying to convince De La Rosa and Greinke to join the outfielder in the nation's capital. "'The Nationals got Jayson Werth, and if they got me to come there, then free agents and other players start thinking, ‘Hey, Washington’s getting some players,’" Greinke told the Washington Post's Dave Sheinin, "'I think that was a big reason they wanted me — to convince other players to come.'"

Before the Nationals lost out on their top pitching target this winter, the Nats traveled to the St. Louis home of left-hander Mark Buehrle and made a pitch to the 32-year-old starter they thought had sold the former White Sox' draft pick on the idea of pitching in the nation's capital. Rizzo told reporters, including the Washington Times' Amanda Comak, who quoted Rizzo in an article entitled, "Nationals among Buehrle's final five -- and GM Mike Rizzo's impressions after their meeting", that after another ten game improvement this season, with Washington thought to be on the brink of making their first run at a postseason appearance, he was confident in what they were selling and no longer felt the need to, "... apologize for not being very good and that we're rebuilding."

The Nationals made what was reportedly a 3-year/$39M dollar offer to Buehrle, who instead chose to sign with the Miami Marlins for 4-years/$58 million. Washington was unwilling to go to a fourth year, which reporters had suggested from the start might be the difference in getting a deal done with the veteran starter. Both Washington Post writer Adam Kilgore and CSNWashington.com's Mark Zuckerman quoted the Marlins' new left-hander from an MLB Network appearance saying, "'I appreciate everything [Rizzo] and the Nationals had to offer. It just came down to comfort level.'"

In an appearance on MLB Network Radio on the night Buehrle's deal with the Fish was announced, Rizzo told reporters the Nationals would have to move on with their plans for the Winter. "We're going to have to move on," Rizzo said, "We have secondary plans in place and like I said, we like the rotation that we have. It's very young, but it's very deep and talented. So, we'll have to see where we're at and corral the troops and see where we go from here."

"We've got several different options that we're exploring, some free agent, some via the trade routes and some international options," Rizzo explained as the Winter Meetings in Dallas wound down, "so we're still open for business and we're going to keep an open mind and see what fits for us." Buehrle turned the Nats down. (This year's De La Rosa?) C.J. Wilson was apparently not a seriously-considered option. (Cliff Lee?)

Roy Oswalt remains a possibility. The Nationals could pursue Yu Darvish, but signing the 25-year-old Hokkaido Nippon Ham Fighters' right-hander could cost them as much or more than they were willing to offer Zack Greinke, a former Cy Young Award-winner. A trade for Oakland A's lefty Gio Gonzalez would likely cost the Nats the kind major league-ready prospects Rizzo told NatsInsider's Mark Zuckerman last week he would rather not trade. Entering the season with the pitchers the Nats already have is a risk, Strasburg's on an innings-limit, Zimmermann's in just his second full-season, Chien-Ming Wang's two years removed from a full season and Tommy Milone and Brad Peacock are as yet unproven at the Major League level. The Nats have clearly stated that they want to add a starter to the mix. Finding one, however, as the Nationals have discovered for the second straight season, is never easy. Will the Nats give Roy Oswalt a multi-year deal? Make a trade for an arm? Spend on Darvish? Or go with what they've got?

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Joe Saunders

Just read that the D-backs are interested in trading him. He’s a local guy. I think he would be a good fit

This is a game to be savored, not gulped. There's time to discuss everything between pitches or between innings. ~Bill Veeck

by timnanna on Dec 10, 2011 6:36 PM EST reply actions  

Oh goody, another soft-tossing lefty

“Not as good as Lannan” is a bit unfair; he seems more like a Lannan clone. Allows a few more home runs, doesn’t walk quite as many. Meh. When you dig a little bit deeper, his marginally acceptable stats this season were driven by a career-low (.275) BaBIP. Lannan’s marginally acceptable stats this year came on a .301 BaBIP, a bit higher than his .291 BaBIP average. The difference? Saunders will make $8-9 million a year.

I think I’d rather give Detwiler, Peacock or Milone the #5 spot.

by d_c_guy on Dec 10, 2011 7:22 PM EST up reply actions  

i think the difference from last year is the need for SPs was much more severe

An uncertain JZ, livo, lannan, marquis coming of quite a season, no stras. Even if no starter transactions are made this winter, I have to feel a lot better about the rotation than 12 months ago. While an ace pickup would be nice (and I’m all for Yu), the depth is very encouraging to me.

Yeah, well, you know, that's just like, uh, your opinion man

by TJL on Dec 10, 2011 7:15 PM EST reply actions  

Awwww

I’m all for Yu, too, TJL

by d_c_guy on Dec 10, 2011 7:23 PM EST up reply actions  

Yeah, but to me its “sure would be nice” not “We don’t stand a chance without”

Yeah, well, you know, that's just like, uh, your opinion man

by TJL on Dec 10, 2011 8:24 PM EST up reply actions  

I guess you'd better

cancel the dinner reservations, then :-p

Brain: "Pinky, are you pondering what i'm pondering?"
Pinky: "Yes, ... wait, ... no, ... never mind"

by jbg2772 on Dec 11, 2011 12:06 PM EST up reply actions  

Agreed.

Rizzo’s search in the 2010 off-season was driven by the need to build a starting 5. This year, it’s more of a ‘missing piece’ search. While Darvish would be a brilliant signing, maybe the team does stand pat on SP’s going into Spring Training. Shift the focus to propping up the offense with a CF & bench strength.

This Aoki fellow from the NPL could come at a reasonable cost ($10-12M posting plus 3-yr/$15M salary), and provide good defense / leadoff possibilities. I wonder how much scouting info the team has on him? Another alternative would be the cuban defector Cespedes, but there’s something about him that doesn’t sit well with me; Maybe it’s the asking price (5-yr+/$30-50M), maybe it’s the reported age (26).

On the bench, if Lombardozzi make the 25-man, the team still needs some LH punch, a utility (IF/OF) player, and another OF to go with Bernadina. Off the FA list, Ankiel, Beltran, Cameron, Fukodome, S.Hairston, Kubel, or Pie could be worth a look for the OF; DeRosa, Dobbs, Hawpe, Punto, or Tracy the same for the IF/UT/PH roles. Of these, only Cameron & Hairston are RH hitters, but I included them because thay can play all three OF positions.

"Things are going great, and they're only gettin' better..." Timbuk3

by BinM on Dec 11, 2011 11:59 AM EST up reply actions  

Wow, just wow...

Ryan Braun Tests Positive for PEDs.

Vivian Jaffe: "Have you ever transcended space and time?"
Albert Markovski: "Yes. No. Uh, time, not space... No, I don't know what you're talking about."

by Patrick Reddington on Dec 10, 2011 7:50 PM EST reply actions  

Unbelievable

I never would have guessed Braun at all…

by Brotato on Dec 10, 2011 7:51 PM EST up reply actions  

"elevated levels of testosterone"...according to the article...

Vivian Jaffe: "Have you ever transcended space and time?"
Albert Markovski: "Yes. No. Uh, time, not space... No, I don't know what you're talking about."

by Patrick Reddington on Dec 10, 2011 7:52 PM EST up reply actions  

Manny's test revealed estrogen

so, not so much. Although they are now free to date …

Brain: "Pinky, are you pondering what i'm pondering?"
Pinky: "Yes, ... wait, ... no, ... never mind"

by jbg2772 on Dec 11, 2011 12:07 PM EST up reply actions  

That's why this is so sad

Baseball is just getting over steroids and a player this popular has this happen to him. It looks particularly suspicious when the guy just got big time paid as well.

Waiting to bang my drum in parades for the Nats and Caps.

by souldrummer on Dec 10, 2011 8:10 PM EST up reply actions  

This is especially painful for MLB because of the fact that he just won the MVP.

It plays into the whole “the only way to succeed in baseball is to cheat” thing.

"I was a victim of a series of accidents. As are we all."
---Malachi Constant

by The Herndon Kid on Dec 10, 2011 8:58 PM EST up reply actions  

I don't really get worked up about these things

But I really, really hope that Braun turns out to be clean. He’s always seemed like a decent sort and has been a good ambassador for the game. Apparently when he found out he immediately asked for a second test and turned up clean. Of course, we don’t know how long it was between tests or how long the substance found remains in the system.

by d_c_guy on Dec 10, 2011 11:11 PM EST up reply actions  

I care insofar that when someone gets caught I do view them scepticly going forward.

But the sports commentariat go nuts for baseball scandals. This will be all we hear about on Monday.

"I was a victim of a series of accidents. As are we all."
---Malachi Constant

by The Herndon Kid on Dec 10, 2011 11:37 PM EST via mobile up reply actions  

No it won't be...

Football is still in season. ESPN radio will raise a fuss about, since they ‘broke’ the story, but locally – crickets, including the papers.

"Things are going great, and they're only gettin' better..." Timbuk3

by BinM on Dec 11, 2011 12:05 PM EST up reply actions  

Me either - very sad

I wonder if this gets the Brewers back in the Fielder sweepstakes – or they just go full fire sale mode. They were all in on 2011, and with Braun gone for 50 games and no Fielder they’re in a world of hurt. Although the NL Central isn’t exactly laden with powerhouse teams.

This may make the Cardinals favorites to win despite losing Pujols. It’s tough to argue with Wainwright-Carpenter at the top of the rotation.

by d_c_guy on Dec 10, 2011 8:14 PM EST up reply actions  

brew crew is not a happy place this evening

Yeah, well, you know, that's just like, uh, your opinion man

by TJL on Dec 10, 2011 10:07 PM EST up reply actions  

I'm sorry

but “Carl Pavano” and “top-of-the-rotation arm” should never appear in the same sentence together unless separated by the word “not”.

On another note, Boswell’s lobbying for the Nats to sign Oswalt. Based on his past suggestions, that’s enough to take me off the fence into the “no Oswalt” camp.

Brain: "Pinky, are you pondering what i'm pondering?"
Pinky: "Yes, ... wait, ... no, ... never mind"

by jbg2772 on Dec 11, 2011 12:11 PM EST reply actions  

HA

I like Boswell. He is one of the few writers who has embraced modern stats who didn’t start as a stathead. Heck, he used OPS + in the article and did a good job of tying into the article and explaining easily.

With that said, I am buying in. I like his Berkman comparison. Oswalt would be a good signing, would be much more affordable and provide the cieling we are looking for.

You guys. You lollygag the ball around the infield. You lollygag your way down to first. You lollygag in and out of the dugout. You know what that makes you? Larry!

by Bsullivan on Dec 11, 2011 1:04 PM EST up reply actions  

I like Boswell too

But Oswalt might be a bridge too far for me. He’s aging (34), he has some history with back trouble, and would probably block a 2nd LH from the rotation (likely Detwiler). I’d only go there if he was agreeable to a 2-yr+ contract, at $24M guaranteed. At this point either spin the wheel on Darvish, or “go with what you know” for the starting staff in Spring Training.

A top-5 rotation of JZimm / Strasburg-Peacock / Lannan / Wang / Detwiler-Milone could still use some help, imo. So I’m still in on Darvish, even if it means letting go of the 3RH / 2LH rotation concept. Short of a trade, anybody else is just a FA plug-in for Detwiler.

"Things are going great, and they're only gettin' better..." Timbuk3

by BinM on Dec 11, 2011 4:00 PM EST up reply actions  

With or without Darvish/Oswalt, I like those arms:

Zimmermann, Strasburg, Peacock (fill-in or late replacement for Stras) Lannan, Wang and Det and Milone fighting it out for starts. Mix in Darvish/Oswalt for the Stras, Zim(n), Darvish/Oswalt, Lannan, Wang, Milone, Peacock mix and it’ll be a fun year to watch all the Nats’ pitchers for once.

Just wish Oswalt didn’t want a 3-year deal. If Nats were only willing to go three for Buehlre and I can’t see them giving Roy 3.

#signDarvish.

Vivian Jaffe: "Have you ever transcended space and time?"
Albert Markovski: "Yes. No. Uh, time, not space... No, I don't know what you're talking about."

by Patrick Reddington on Dec 11, 2011 4:17 PM EST up reply actions  

Oswalt for three years

or Darvish for 100 mil. ?

I take Oswalt personally. I don’t care about his back. He still had 23 effective starts in 2010. 2.5 WAR still is better than all but Zimmnn.

Darvish is an unknown and extremely expensive.

You guys. You lollygag the ball around the infield. You lollygag your way down to first. You lollygag in and out of the dugout. You know what that makes you? Larry!

by Bsullivan on Dec 11, 2011 4:33 PM EST up reply actions  

3.21 Career Era!

You guys. You lollygag the ball around the infield. You lollygag your way down to first. You lollygag in and out of the dugout. You know what that makes you? Larry!

by Bsullivan on Dec 11, 2011 4:37 PM EST up reply actions  

what matters his career? he ain't no kid anymore..

In the past four years, Oswalt has put up numbers that good once, in 2010. I wouldn’t bank on him going under a 3.50 ERA again. It could happen.. but then, some years Livo could pitch brilliantly too (kinda, but you get the point).

by dc Roach on Dec 11, 2011 5:06 PM EST up reply actions  

right

but he has one year of less than 200 innings save his rookie season. he may be having some back problems, but its not like he is Eric Bedard.

You guys. You lollygag the ball around the infield. You lollygag your way down to first. You lollygag in and out of the dugout. You know what that makes you? Larry!

by Bsullivan on Dec 11, 2011 5:34 PM EST up reply actions  

we never get kisses..

JesusFloresN26: (rough attempt at translation)
Good good my beautiful people. Last Day of the week over and more than finished with a game Ccs-Mag! # Pure adrenaline tonight #ForTheChampionship

I want to address all the fans who always embarrass and flatter me with your words and compliments. Kisses to all and thanks for your support.

by dc Roach on Dec 11, 2011 1:44 PM EST reply actions  

as long as there's no tongue, I'm okay with that

Brain: "Pinky, are you pondering what i'm pondering?"
Pinky: "Yes, ... wait, ... no, ... never mind"

by jbg2772 on Dec 11, 2011 1:46 PM EST up reply actions  

Ryan Braun reportedly did not take PED

New info coming out, suggesting that the substance that got him caught was not a PED, but still a banned substance. If it was a stimulant, he faces a 25 game suspension rather than a 50 game suspension.

by dc Roach on Dec 11, 2011 1:58 PM EST reply actions  

A modest proposal

Now that Trumbo is redundant would it be worth going for him? Terrible OBP but he has some pop in his bat.

"I was a victim of a series of accidents. As are we all."
---Malachi Constant

by The Herndon Kid on Dec 11, 2011 2:33 PM EST via mobile reply actions  

It would cut down on Irish poverty...

"I was a victim of a series of accidents. As are we all."
---Malachi Constant

by The Herndon Kid on Dec 11, 2011 3:09 PM EST via mobile up reply actions  

Did you just equate Trumbo to a potato?

"Things are going great, and they're only gettin' better..." Timbuk3

by BinM on Dec 11, 2011 4:05 PM EST up reply actions  

We already have a Mark Trumbo in our system.

and Tyler Moore did it NOT in the PCL.

You guys. You lollygag the ball around the infield. You lollygag your way down to first. You lollygag in and out of the dugout. You know what that makes you? Larry!

by Bsullivan on Dec 11, 2011 3:14 PM EST up reply actions  

Well in Trumbo's favor he hit near 30 in the majors last year.

"I was a victim of a series of accidents. As are we all."
---Malachi Constant

by The Herndon Kid on Dec 11, 2011 7:14 PM EST via mobile up reply actions  

Yep

with a sub .800 OPS because of his sub .300 OBP. I just think he is a mirror image of Tyler Moore. So don’t know why we’d go out and get Trumbo.

You guys. You lollygag the ball around the infield. You lollygag your way down to first. You lollygag in and out of the dugout. You know what that makes you? Larry!

by Bsullivan on Dec 11, 2011 10:19 PM EST up reply actions  

Interesting idea

His peripherals are helped by playing in Oakland however

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/976990-mlb-trade-rumors-gio-gonzalez-is-a-good-fit-with-the-nationals

You guys. You lollygag the ball around the infield. You lollygag your way down to first. You lollygag in and out of the dugout. You know what that makes you? Larry!

by Bsullivan on Dec 11, 2011 5:02 PM EST reply actions  

Is he worth the cost in terms of prospect?

Oakland Athletics trade Craig Breslow and Trevor Cahill to the Arizona Diamondbacks for Ryan Cook, Collin Cowgill and Jarrod Parker. Jarrod Parker was rank the 1 prospect for Arizona by Baseball America 3 year running 2009-2011. His rated 33rd prospect by Baseball America before the 2011 season. John Sickels gives him a Grade A-. Trevor Cahill had 1.9 bWAR 1.9 in 09, 4.0 bWAR in 10 and a 3.5 in 11. Gio Gonzalez had a 4.2 bWAR in 10 and a 5. in 11 but negatives ones in his first 2 years in which. So the price in terms of prospect will be higher, but how high?

Is he a veteran at 26 year old with 2 full MLB seasons and 2 seasons he spilt between AAA and MLB? Is he that much better than follow left handers Ross Detwiler who will be 26 year old before opening day or 27 year old John Lannan to be worth the cost?

by HG_VA on Dec 11, 2011 8:20 PM EST up reply actions  

Don't know obviously

But he is better than Detwiler and Lannan. Detwiler’s cieling is little lower than where Gio Gonzalez is. Thats the BEST we can hope for.

The concern regarding Gonzalez is that he walks too many hitters (though similar to Lannan) and that he is not as good as his stats because of Oakland’s pitcher friendly park. But his 8.8 k rate in 200 innings is pretty interesting as well as his 10+ k rate in the minors.

But Detwiler hasn’t shown much promise to date and doesn’t have the minor league numbers Gio had. So there is no reason to think he’d be as good.

You guys. You lollygag the ball around the infield. You lollygag your way down to first. You lollygag in and out of the dugout. You know what that makes you? Larry!

by Bsullivan on Dec 11, 2011 10:13 PM EST up reply actions  

And

You never know who he could be asking for, Solis? or one of those guys. AJ Cole? Cole is 19 and who knows if he’ll be any good at all. A ready major leaguer is always the best player.

You guys. You lollygag the ball around the infield. You lollygag your way down to first. You lollygag in and out of the dugout. You know what that makes you? Larry!

by Bsullivan on Dec 11, 2011 10:15 PM EST up reply actions  

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