Well If No One Else Wants Prince Fielder, Should The Washington Nationals Step Up?
It doesn't take much to convince a Washington Nationals fan that Prince Fielder is a good fit at first base in the nation's capital. Just show them the following lineup: 1) Ian Desmond; 2) Jayson Werth; 3) Ryan Zimmerman; 4) Prince Fielder; 5) Michael Morse; 6) Bryce Harper; 7) Danny Espinosa; 8) Wilson Ramos.
Sold.
(ed. note - "Though a certain portion of the audience will insist that Desmond's not a leadoff man, and another smaller segment will insist that Stephen Lombardozzi's supposed to be at second with Espinosa at short.") There is also a segment of the fan base willing to either ignore the existence of, or sit Adam LaRoche and his $8M dollar 2012 salary on the bench if they have to and they're willing to eat the majority of the second year of his two-year deal with the Nationals if necessary to make a trade to make room for Fielder at first...
A trade involving LaRoche is not happening. (Watch it happen now). LaRoche has zero trade value right now, and won't have any until he proves he's recovered from surgery to repair a torn labrum in his shoulder and clean up rotator cuff damage. Even healthy, he's not likely to bring much in return. The 32-year-old, 8-year veteran first baseman is expected to be 100% and ready for Spring Training after the shoulder issues limited LaRoche to 43 games and 117 plate appearances in 2011.
LaRoche told Washington Post writer Adam Kilgore he would be ready for Spring Training in a December 5th article entitled, "Adam LaRoche is ‘100 percent,’ but the Nationals want insurance at first base", which also quoted Nats' Skipper Davey Johnson saying what the team needed was not a replacement for LaRoche but an insurance policy for him in the form of a right-handed bat who can fill in if necessary.
The last time rumors tying the Nats to Prince Fielder came up, both MLB.com's Bill Ladson (@washingnats) and the WaPost's Mr. Kilgore (@AdamKilgoreWP) quoted team sources who told them rather bluntly that the rumors had no validity. But still, there were those rumors. Two weeks before the Winter Meetings, then-SI.com reporter Jon Heyman wrote in his preview of the free agent market that, "The Nationals, Mariners, Rangers, Orioles and Cubs are viewed as among the possibilities for Fielder.
"Fielder, meanwhile, has been pursued by a group believed to include the Cubs, Nationals, Rangers and Mariners," FOXSports.com's Jon Morosi wrote before the Winter Meetings in an article entitled, "Pujols, Fielder top free-agent market." Fielder, "... has been pursued by a group believed to include the Cubs, Nationals, Rangers and Mariners."
"The Nationals are showing serious interest in Fielder and view Cuban outfielder Yoennis Cespedes as a potential Plan B, according to major-league sources," Mr. Morosi's colleague, FOXSports.com's Ken Rosenthal wrote the week before the Winter Meetings in an article entitled, "MLB: Nats show interest in Fielder, Cespedes." "Fielder, 27, is the Nationals’ primary target, at least among offensive players, sources said." ESPN.com's Jayson Stark was right about the fact that Mark Buehrle was the Nats' top target, he claimed Yoenis Cespedes was on their radar, and wrote in a December 4th article that the Nats, "... keep getting linked to Fielder despite denials from Nationals execs that they're actively involved."
As recently as this past Thursday CBSSports.com's Jon Heyman, in an article entitled, "Notebook: Rangers might grab Fielder with kick at the finish", was speculating about the Nationals' interest, placing them 5th on a list of potential destinations and writing that the Nationals have, "... gone for the home run before, and no one would be shocked if they made a late play here. With Michael Morse and Adam LaRoche on the roster, it isn't the best fit. But they lost out on Mark Buehrle, and GM Mike Rizzo has struck before."
The four teams ahead of the Nats on Mr. Heyman's list are the Blue Jays, Mariners, Cubs and Rangers. The Rangers, the rumors have it, could sign Fielder to counter the Angels' addition of Albert Pujols, but the Ft. Worth Star-Telegram's Jeff Wilson (@JeffWilson_FWST) quoted Rangers' president Nolan Ryan saying that the, "#Rangers are not in on Prince Fielder." The Cubs are supposed to have interest, but St. Louis Post-Dispatch Cardinals beat writer Joe Strauss wrote on Twitter (@JoeStrauss) that he was, "Informed by well-placed source Cubs' alleged interest in Prince only a 'smokescreen' and he may ultimately take shorter-term deal." Boston Globe writer Nick Cafardo too wrote on Sunday that he wasn't sure about Chicago's interest, noting that, "... as of this writing the Cubs were still in the mode of, let’s not spend until we’re ready to spend and right now we’re not ready to spend."
The Blue Jays are said to be interested in Fielder, but they're also rumored to be the winners of the Yu Darvish sweepstakes. Are they going to sign Fielder too and try to make a real run in the AL East? FOXSports.com's Ken Rosenthal wrote this week, in an article entitled, "Fielder should be Cubs' player to lose", that the Fielder market was currently down to the Cubs and Mariners, with Chicago the front-runner and the Mariners only an option if Fielder had no better options. The bow-tied FOXSports.com reporter spoke to one "executive", however, who said he/she expected that Fielder's agent, Scott Boras, "... can usually pull a rabbit out of his hat," with that hat, in Mr. Rosenthal's opinion, the Mariners or possibly another team...
"Some executives still expect Fielder to hear from the Nationals," Mr. Rosenthal wrote before referring to the Nats as, "the preferred ATM of the Scott Boras Corporation in recent years."
The rumors won't die until Fielder signs somewhere.
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So RobBob is now posting as Patrick?
"I was a victim of a series of accidents. As are we all."
---Malachi Constant
by The Herndon Kid on Dec 18, 2011 11:09 PM EST via mobile reply actions
RobBob is mindcontrolling patrick now but for his final trick he will mind control rizzo and boras to sign fielder
by natsforever on Dec 18, 2011 11:12 PM EST up reply actions
It's the turban.
Rob
--"Well my days of not taking you seriously are certainly coming to a middle." -- Mal Reynolds
I keep having visions of a rotund basher at 1B...
It’s as if someone is controlling my mind!
When will it end?
"player development" should not be gladiator games. by cat daddy3000 on Aug 6, 2011
by MissB on Dec 19, 2011 9:18 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
Wasn't Voldermort inside the turban? :)
"I'm going to run. You can't stop me. I'm going to run even if I don't get a single vote!." Willie Stark, All The King's Men
by kingfishfarms on Dec 19, 2011 10:11 AM EST up reply actions
"I feel like I am taking crazy pills!"
The nats are a team on the rise. Not at our peak. I think that is the essential issue with all of the fury on this board this past week. Aoki is a veteran player to help a major league team. He won’t make the Nats a playoff team next year, let’s be real. Is he worth10 war?
Part of the Nats future was this years draft, and while strong, it is an impact we will feel a few years from now, which identfies how far off this team is. Harper is close, but he’ll have growing pains. He won’t hit .280 in his first 162 games. Could he? Ya maybe. But many people feel like the moment he arrives he’ll be an allstar. Follow j. Uptons career for a moment. Harper, at best, will be a role player for a few years.
My point is, patience. We all want a winner, but all of these guys are young. Strasburg wont be penciled in for automatic 15 wins next year, nor Zimmerman.
I think we are all too eager to make a huge play now. We need to let this club grow organically and fill major holes with outside talent when necessary and when the timing is right. The timing now is not right because our last wave is just starting in the minors, and strasburg and zimmermann are still very green.
2012 has never been the year for contention so why are we freaking out now? Stay the course.
You guys. You lollygag the ball around the infield. You lollygag your way down to first. You lollygag in and out of the dugout. You know what that makes you? Larry!
Prince is a 5 WAR player entering his prime.
Assuming that you just add him to the team and do nothing else the Nats are an 85 win team, leaving them at least within breathing distance for a wild card. You add a full season on Stras and R. Zim and you probably have at least another 3 wins (and I feel like that is way undershooting it) compared to what Livo and Cora/Harriston provided last year. Now we are up to 88 wins and in the hunt for a playoff spot. You can also reasonably expect some players to improve such as Espi and Ramos, and Desmond is probably not going to regress. You might lose a little production from Morse who had a ridiculously high BABIP, but I doubt that it will be dramatic. Werth can’t be any worse than last year, we hope. Add Harper into that mix and I think that there is ever reason to think that this team is competitive in 2012. Is it a World Series champion yet, I don’t know about that. But I think that it is totally within the realm of sane thinking to envision a 2012 where the Nats can legitimately contend for a playoff spot.
by mrs. nook logan on Dec 19, 2011 12:33 AM EST up reply actions
Why am i freaking out?
Because Davey keeps telling me that he wants to make the playoffs!?!?! if he thinks it can happen, i believe him. But its unlikely with the talent we have now, and if we do get fielder we are significantly upgrading the middle of our lineup. Also, it would make our team a destination… a place where other players would want to play (like Miami).
Stay the course is not "Do Nothing."
I think a number of fans here were disappointed precisely because Aoki was likely role player, not a super-star, and likely to cost accordingly.
Should the Nationals go all in on trying to win 2012? No. Does that mean the Nationals should stick their head in the ground and wait for everything to fall into place? No. The Nationals could be very real contenders for the play-offs next year with a couple minor upgrades. There are plenty of reasons to hope that they will be contenders, just be seeing Strasburg, JZimm, Werth, and Zimm play either more or more like themselves. Werth and Zimm alone were down almost 7 WAR compared with their averages from the 2 seasons prior. Strasburg was worth 1.1WAR in 24 IP. Fangraphs projects him to be worth 4.9 WAR over 158 IP. So, they don’t need a miracle to be in the hunt, but they could use some work.
Could they have benefited from a CF that was also a 3 time batting champ in Japan? One that also won awards for his defense? That was going to cost less than Adam LaRoche? Yep. Did they try to get him? Nope.
Other than that, I wasn’t upset by the Nationals moves. They had didn’t want to match the price for Buerhle, and I understood that. I didn’t like it, but I thought it was pretty reasonable. Unless Buerhle has a late career resurgence or never declines, the Marlins will have overpaid for him.
As far as, this article goes, I think it accurately portrays the question Will Fielder be an 8-year $200 million dollar contract, or a 6-year $156 million dollar contract? Fielder is a major talent, if we can fit him into our long-term budget, it would be a mistake not to do so.
It can be do nothing
If the price or package for players is too high. You hav to find a measure of value somehow. Aoki will be a 30 year old next year by the way, and batting champs in Japan don’t necessarily translate. They may not like him, have any of you guys seen him play? Even yet the brewers may even do a sign and trade. But the only Japanese players to translate are matsui (the greatest home run hitter in history, known as Godzilla.) and ichiro.
Another note, this huge draft will not be useable until next year. I believe he can’t trade any of those players yet (correct?) so it would be a year or so until all options are available.
You guys. You lollygag the ball around the infield. You lollygag your way down to first. You lollygag in and out of the dugout. You know what that makes you? Larry!
look at the twins Second baseman
Similar age, similar batting acts from Japan. But Tsuyoshi nishioka didn’t show much in 2011.
You guys. You lollygag the ball around the infield. You lollygag your way down to first. You lollygag in and out of the dugout. You know what that makes you? Larry!
He also broke his leg
Yes, Kaz Matsui didn’t work out, but it’s a pretty small sample size of players coming over from Japan to draw such sweeping conclusions. Still, even if they make a mistake, a mistake is better than doing absolutely nothing.
Ross Detwiler will have a breakout year...Believe It!...and I'm serious this time!
A mistake costs millions of dollars on a player the team may wish they did not have to pay in the near future.
Look at LaRoche as a good example. I would much rather do nothing if the FO does not believe a player can come in and contribute. No reason to shell out a couple million just to look like the team is doing something.
Plus, Spring Training is still two months away. It is way too early to say the team will do absolutely nothing.
by jimmylauderdale on Dec 19, 2011 10:54 AM EST up reply actions
LaRoche = Doing Nothing
The reason the Nats got stuck with LaRoche is because they waited and he was all that was available. Even still LaRoche is above replacement level and without LaRoche you’re essentially giving 500 PA’s to a replacement level player.
Millions of dollars is a relative term, spending $10M or so on Aoki isn’t a huge investment relatively speaking. Also, this is still a business and doing nothing, generates zero excitement and consequently fewer customers. As is true in business, you have to spend money to make money. The most profitable franchise in baseball is the New York Yankees, they also have the highest payroll and the highest overall value. Some might say that it’s just because they play in New York, but if that was true the Mets would be just as rich and valuable, which they aren’t. Spring Training might be two months away, but recent history suggests that they’ll do nothing or next to nothing.
Ross Detwiler will have a breakout year...Believe It!...and I'm serious this time!
The Yankees are relevant because they found Babe Ruth
Otherwise we’d be talking about the New York Baseball Giants as kings of New York. The Mets are still just an adolescent franchise in a lot of ways.
Waiting to bang my drum in parades for the Nats and Caps.
by souldrummer on Dec 19, 2011 11:57 AM EST up reply actions
Not true
The Yankees beating out the Giants for New York had more to do with Stadium rights than it did with Babe Ruth after all the Giants won more prior to 1930 and had stars in the 30’s like Mel Ott, plus when the Giants moved they had the greatest player ever on their team. While the Giants and Yankees both initially used the Polo Grounds eventually—around the time of Ruth—the Yankees got permission and funding to build Yankee Stadium while the Giants continued to play their games at the Polo Grounds, which was a converted horse track. It was a horrible place to watch a game and even though the Giants were located in the more affluent Manhattan while the Yankees were in the Bronx and the Dodgers were in Brooklyn, they struggled to draw because the Polo Grounds was an awful place to watch a baseball game, seated fewer fans and wasn’t as accessible. If they’d have stayed in New York they might be as rich as the Yankees now, but when they left the Dodgers and Yankees were both still in New York.
Ross Detwiler will have a breakout year...Believe It!...and I'm serious this time!
I stand corrected
Good stuff.
Waiting to bang my drum in parades for the Nats and Caps.
by souldrummer on Dec 19, 2011 12:23 PM EST up reply actions
Horace Stoneman
got talked into moving by his buddy Walter O’Malley, and exchanged an old, inconvenient venue (Polo Grounds) for old (Sicks Stadium) then inconvenient an bizarre (Candlestick) venues. Granted, he got the better city, but O’Malley won out on most everything else.
Brain: "Pinky, are you pondering what i'm pondering?"
Pinky: "Yes, ... wait, ... no, ... never mind"
Yup
Seals stadium wasn’t a good place to watch a game either, and I’ve frozen my arse off enough times at Candlestick in July to know that it was in no way a good place to watch baseball.
Ross Detwiler will have a breakout year...Believe It!...and I'm serious this time!
LaRoche is doing nothing BUT.
Its an increase in value based on last years team. Maybe you can’t assume he’ll be a fantastic player, but he’ll be upgrade over Laynce Nix.
Then a year from now, Harper will be an upgrade over LaRoche. I think thats the basic pattern we are looking for.
I’d rather have Harper/Morse/Ankiel for 2 million, than Aoki/Fielder/Harper for 30.
You guys. You lollygag the ball around the infield. You lollygag your way down to first. You lollygag in and out of the dugout. You know what that makes you? Larry!
I think it really just comes down to the scouting.
If the Nats didn’t even place a bid on Aoki isn’t it safe to assume that they didn’t think he would be worth whatever price they may bid? Plus, Being a 30 year-old coming to the states I doubt he he is looking for a one year deal. In all likelihood, similar production can probably be had for cheaper in guys like Crisp and C. Ross.
by jimmylauderdale on Dec 19, 2011 2:33 PM EST up reply actions
Don't get me wrong
I’m not advocating for Aoki here, just that they needed to make a move even if it was on a flawed player who represented an upgrade.
Ross Detwiler will have a breakout year...Believe It!...and I'm serious this time!
I agree.
And now we see the Cameron deal which is probably going to give the Nats similar production on a deal that is much more future friendly.
by jimmylauderdale on Dec 19, 2011 4:41 PM EST up reply actions
You're right
We can’t trade players drafted for a year, although they can be players to be named later and dealt once a year is up.
Waiting to bang my drum in parades for the Nats and Caps.
by souldrummer on Dec 19, 2011 10:11 AM EST up reply actions
Umm, minor quibble
Sadaharu Oh was the greatest home run hitter in JPL history (and professional baseball, if you just figure numbers).
You’re correct; none of the 2011 draft class can be traded until 1 year after they signed.
Brain: "Pinky, are you pondering what i'm pondering?"
Pinky: "Yes, ... wait, ... no, ... never mind"
Kosuke Fukudome was a fine player.
We didn’t need Aoki to be the second coming. We just need an adequate CF that would get on base, not cost too much, and go away in a few years so that one of our CF prospects can come up. Aoki did all of these things.
Sadahara Oh says hello
Not that I don’t love Matsui World Series MVP!), but he’s not the greatest Japanese home run hitter.
by d_c_guy on Dec 20, 2011 8:51 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
Ummm no...
To win teams need a combination of established players and homegrown players coming in to their own. By the time all of the Nats young players have developed, they won’t be able to afford to keep them together. The time to win is right now. They don’t need a 10 WAR player when you consider that Strasburg, a full season of Zim and players like Espi and Desmond maturing should add up to at least an extra 5 WAR, what they really need is a 3 WAR increase at SP and 2 WAR increase at CF, neither of which is too pie in the sky. Also, comparing Harper to Justin Upton is just wrong, Upton’s a fine player and all, but there just aren’t comps for a guy like Harper because these type of players come along so rarely. Sure you could be selective and choose to compare him to Ken Griffey Jr. instead, but there just haven’t been enough guys to be this good, this young to start making comps. While I agree that Harper won’t be an MVP candidate right away, I doubt however that he’ll be a “role player”. There’s a big difference between Albert Pujols and Rick Ankiel, but bet on Harper being somewhere in the middle if not closer to Pujols than Ankiel.
Ross Detwiler will have a breakout year...Believe It!...and I'm serious this time!
We're freaking because we're so close
This turnaround has been fast and we can thank Rizzo and his people – and maybe it has made us too excited but that’s what builds a fanbase – excitement. I refuse to be calm.
This
They’ve done great work through the draft, but that’s only half the equation. I also refuse to be calm…
Ross Detwiler will have a breakout year...Believe It!...and I'm serious this time!
Rizzo has put up a mixed bag.
Draft good, but not hard given the consensus picks they got.
Trade 50/50. Capps/Ramos was a straight-up hiest. Haranhan for Burnett/Morgan not so much. Morgan/Dykstra well that says a lot.
Signings- Not much to report here. Werth clearly underperformed, but there were no indications that he would do so. Adam LaRoche was a stop-gap that got injured, so was Jason Marquis.
Milledge is going to play in Japan next year for the Yakult Swallows.
guess they needed an outfielder…
Contracts in Japan are a new headache for LVBP
“The most recent case is that of Lastings Milledge, who left the Tigres de Aragua.”
"...I don't want to go watch American League baseball." Lance Berkman......LBIMH...
by cat daddy3000 on Dec 19, 2011 12:20 PM EST up reply actions
I'm pretty confident that this would be true, as well...
"...I don't want to go watch American League baseball." Lance Berkman......LBIMH...
by cat daddy3000 on Dec 19, 2011 12:28 PM EST up reply actions
They've made some good picks outside of the consensus picks
And the Capps for Ramos deal was pure thievery, but when you look at their FA acquisitions—and I’m not just talking about the big name guys—no one has really worked out. Marquis was supposed to be a middle of the rotation guy, but wasn’t, LaRoche was supposed to be a stop-gap, but isn’t, Werth was supposed to be good and isn’t, but outside of that even the Matt Stairs, Rick Ankiel and Joey Cora type signings haven’t worked out particularly well. A good GM should find players that are supposed to be role players who exceed expectations. Look at the two World Series teams, St. Louis had guys like Jake Westbrook and Lance Berkman who exceeded expectations and Texas had guys like C.J. Wilson, Mitch Moreland and Alexi Ogando who exceeded expectations, where are the Nats players who exceeded expectations that were added by Rizzo?
Ross Detwiler will have a breakout year...Believe It!...and I'm serious this time!
Another off-season, another off-season of Rizzo getting passed by
Everyone knows what the Nats needs are, they need a CF and a SP, yet once again this off-season Rizzo is unable to get it done. Sure, you don’t want to see him overreact and overpay for someone, but the price of pitching is steep. That being said, Jonathan Sanchez was dealt for Melky Cabrera, sure he’s inconsistent, but if Rizzo didn’t want to spend too much why not deal for him? The Nats weren’t even close on Buerhle or Wilson and while both guys are flawed, they are what’s out there. Sooner or later Rizzo is going to need to make a deal and decide who is the best overpay out there.
As for CF’s, why not bid more than $2M for Aoki? Right now, the Nationals have no one to be there opening day CF. If it’s true that they could have had Denard Span if they’d have kicked in Storen than they missed the boat. Closer is the most overrated position in baseball and it’s not even close. That being said, sometimes it’s not about finding the perfect fit, but the best available fit and if they’re not willing to pay the prospect cost to trade for a CF than spend the money and sacrifice the defense to bring Fielder aboard.
The Nationals have a special core group of players that should be coming in to their own this season and next, but if Rizzo just sits on his hands than that core group of players will be wasted on 2nd and 3rd place finishes.
Ross Detwiler will have a breakout year...Believe It!...and I'm serious this time!
Denard Span continues to suffer from
Concussion syndrome so it’s a good thing that deal wasn’t done. I wish him a full recovery, but he probably won’t be able to play a full season in 2012.
But there are other CF like Coco Crisp who are available for short contracts who are upgrades to what the Nats currently. Seems like all of the Nats’ CF prospects are progressing very slowly…or not at all. :-(
Werth in CF is not a good answer.
"player development" should not be gladiator games. by cat daddy3000 on Aug 6, 2011
by MissB on Dec 19, 2011 9:14 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
That's kind of my point
Also, with Span, IIRC, he suffered the concussion after the Nats would have acquired him so I’m not sure that would be an issue, but the Nats could sign Coco Crisp, they could’ve acquired Andres Torres for a song to at least be a defensive upgrade, but they’ve done NOTHING and if prior off-seasons serve as any indication they may very well do nothing the rest of the year.
Ross Detwiler will have a breakout year...Believe It!...and I'm serious this time!
Span had suffered the concussion before the trade. His concussion was on June 3rd.
Don’t mess with head injuries.
Well, Jason Kubel is off the board now too.
Diamondbacks to sign Jason Kubel at 2 years 15M plus an option per mlbtraderumors.
Sounds like that would have been expensive to me for us, but that’s another name off the board and another indicator of what the market is likely to be at.
We may be really interested in the Cubans at this point, and that could be why we’re not hearing much or seeing much from Rizzo yet.
Waiting to bang my drum in parades for the Nats and Caps.
The Kubel signing could be very good for the Nationals
if we could pry Gerardo Parra from the Diamondbacks. Parra posted a .357 OBP, and won a golden glove this year. I don’t know what Arizona wants, but I think it should be looked into.
fielder
i would deff get fielder, he’s a power hitter and that’s what the nat’s kinda lack last year there was a few loses by 2 runs or less. Fielder can deff help with those low scoring losses. He is still young and the nat’s are building a foundation with good players. I can see the nat’s in the playoffs ina few years if they get fielder and other quality players.

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