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Wire Taps: Washington Nationals Talking Gio Gonzalez With Oakland A's?

SAN FRANCISCO - JUNE 11:  Gio Gonzalez #47 of the Oakland Athletics pitches against the San Francisco Giants during an MLB game at AT&T Park on June 11, 2010 in San Francisco, California.  (Photo by Jed Jacobsohn/Getty Images)

D.C. GM Mike Rizzo thinks that the Nats have the prospects to pull off a trade for a starter this winter. He's said so since the season ended, telling reporters including Washington Post writer Adam Kilgore, who quoted the general manager in a late September Nationals Journal post entitled, "Nationals, Mike Rizzo want to acquire outfielder, starting pitching this offseason", that he thought, "'Our pitching depth is the best I’ve seen since I’ve been around here, since the Lerners acquired the team. We certainly would discuss trades to fill some of our needs, if the trade makes sense.'"

Not that Washington's front office wasn't happy with the pitchers they had, Rizzo would reiterate in a late-October discussion with the D.C. press corps, but, "...we're always looking to upgrade and to improve our rotation," Rizzo said, "What we're trying to do via free agency or on the trade market, international market, would be to improve our rotation and we're always looking to upgrade."

Star-divide

The Nationals made a play for Mark Buehrle, but the 32-year-old left-hander opted to sign in Miami for more money and a year more than Washington was reportedly willing to offer. Sources from the nation's capital reported that the Nationals had decided not to enter into the posting process that could eventually end with Hokkaido Nippon Ham Fighters' right-hander Yu Darvish pitching in the majors next season, so there was no drama for Nats fans Monday night when the team that won the bidding for the 25-year-old starter was announced.

While the Texas Rangers were revealed as the winners and highest bidders for Darvish with a $51.7M dollar posting fee, the talk in the nation's capital was about a rumored discussion between the Oakland A's and Nationals involving 26-year-old left-hander Gio Gonzalez.

FOXSports.com's Ken Rosenthal wrote about the interest in the '04 1st Round pick (38th overall) who finished the 2011 season with a (16-12) record in 32 starts and 202.0 IP in which he had a 3.12 ERA, 3.64 FIP, 91 walks (4.05 BB/9) and 197 K's (8.78 K/9) in an article during the Winter Meetings entitled, "A's Gonzalez hottest lefty at meetings", in which he pointed out that Gonzalez had a number of suitors in large part because he's young and controllable, "... in his first year of arbitration eligibility and under club control for four more years."

The FOXSports.com writer listed the Tigers, Diamondbacks, Marlins, Reds and Phillies as teams his sources said had interest in Gonzalez and added that, "Other clubs including the Blue Jays, Nationals, Red Sox, Rangers and Rockies," who were in the market for pitching would no doubt show interest this winter. Monday night, Mr. Rosenthal, in an article entitled, "Nats working hard to land Gonzalez", reported that the Nats and A's were discussing what he said on Twitter (@Ken_Rosenthal) was a 4-for-1 deal for the lefty, though he wrote that the Marlins, Red Sox and Rangers were still in the market along with the Nationals.

Will the Nationals be able to make a deal with the A's? They've come up empty-handed thus far in their search for a center fielder and a starter, but Washington Post writer Thomas Boswell wrote this morning in a chat with WaPost readers that the Nats, "... really wanted Buehrle. But not at $56m/4yr, even if he'd have come. They were NEVER as high on anybody else...They were never interested in [Albert] Pujols, [Prince] Fielder, CJ Wilson, Darvish or [Yoenis] Cespedes at the price(s) that were being paid this winter." The Nats' GM has, however, clearly stated that he's willing to deal for the starter or outfielder the Nationals want if the right deal is there, while noting that they're perfectly comfortable going into the season with what they have.

A's GM Billy Beane's likely in no hurry to make a deal either. The Rangers taking Yu Darvish off the market for the year, regardless of whether or not they agree on a deal, only increased Oakland's leverage with other teams desperate for pitching this Winter. How much is a top-of-the-rotation arm to go along with Stephen Strasburg and Jordan Zimmermann worth to the Nats' GM? How desperate are the Blue Jays now, after missing out on Darvish? How desperate are the Yankees to bolster their rotation? Can the Nationals put together a package to rival what the rest of the interested teams can offer? Are there any other top-of-the-rotation arms out there?

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Sell the farm

Sell whatever…just don’t let him go to an NL West team!!

I don't have a very high opinion of southern California, in sports or in general

by short_shifter on Dec 20, 2011 7:28 AM EST reply actions  

So you're OK with trading Harper, Norris and Cole for Gio?

I guarantee that would get it done. And it wouldn’t even be the whole farm! The Nats would still have some prospects left.

Gonzalez is a good pitcher – but he’s not Koufax, Pedro or Gibson. I support exploring a trade, but don’t let making a trade become the goal instead of a means to an end.

by d_c_guy on Dec 20, 2011 8:45 AM EST via mobile up reply actions  

No, it was selfish reasoning

And not at all seriously thought out…if only because the A’s have a habit of trading notable up-and-coming prospects (i.e. Trevor Cahill, Dan Haren, Carlos Gonzalez, Andre Ethier) to NL West teams whose name does not rhyme with “Fan Sancisco”

I don't have a very high opinion of southern California, in sports or in general

by short_shifter on Dec 20, 2011 9:04 AM EST up reply actions  

Fair enough

The Giants may never forgive the A’s for Barry Zito

by d_c_guy on Dec 20, 2011 9:06 AM EST via mobile up reply actions  

Don't blame the A's for that one!

Giants went out and spent their own hard earned cash for the right to make Zito their long man in 2011.

The monster at the end of this blog.

by grover on Dec 20, 2011 9:33 AM EST up reply actions  

Yeah, Zito was not Oakland's fault

But trading away CarGo was rubbing salt in the self-inflicted wound…among other transactions.

I don't have a very high opinion of southern California, in sports or in general

by short_shifter on Dec 20, 2011 9:59 AM EST up reply actions  

Gio would likely be a mistake.

He’s is likely a 3, but we will likely have to give up ace pay for him. All indications say that Gio should be posting an ERA of just over 3.5, but since he has posted ERA’s in the low 3’s, then he’ll get dealt like an ace.

Let someone else overpaid. There is a reason that Beane wants to deal a young cost controlled pitcher now rather than extending him a couple years.

I would be ok with offering Peacock/Norris/one of our CF prospects. Peacock projects to be a 3 to replace Gio’s actual value (given that he has 7 years of team control instead of 4). Norris compensates for the now versus later, and the CF prospect is just to make them feel better about the situation.

Giving up more is too much.

by chubias on Dec 20, 2011 10:27 AM EST reply actions  

Its about timing to Beane

In a few years they hope to have a new stadium and you want cost controlled players at that time. Gio will be likely on his way out by then. So trade him now.

A 26 year old with a 3.5 ERA is pretty good actually.

You guys. You lollygag the ball around the infield. You lollygag your way down to first. You lollygag in and out of the dugout. You know what that makes you? Larry!

by Bsullivan on Dec 20, 2011 10:51 AM EST up reply actions  

3.5 ERA is good, but not an ace.

The A’s are looking for a new stadium in 2014-2015. If they got Gio on a six-year deal, he would only give up 2 free agent seasons, and would be eliminating the risk of losing a significant payday from injury or poor performance. Gio would be 28-29 when the new stadium opened and have 2-3 years left on his contact, and could be a veteran anchor for the young rotation. If Gio were Nolan Ryan or Sandy Koufax come again, this would be Beane’s play.

The fact is that Gio simply isn’t those players. He is a very good pitcher and would be the best pitcher on several teams, but he’s not an ace. Peacock, Norris, and Destin Hood, aren’t chump change or fringe prospects. Two of them are basically MLB ready, essentially no service time.

by chubias on Dec 20, 2011 11:29 AM EST up reply actions  

New stadium? Yer nuts.

With all respect to good fans and a great tradition…anybody been to Oakland lately?

"I can go to my left or right, I am amphibious." - Charles Shackelford

by Whupass on Dec 20, 2011 10:50 PM EST up reply actions  

The new stadium assumes Selig gets off his fundament and gets the Giants to waive their territorial rights to San Panty Jose

Brain: "Pinky, are you pondering what i'm pondering?"
Pinky: "Yes, ... wait, ... no, ... never mind"

by jbg2772 on Dec 21, 2011 6:21 PM EST up reply actions  

What you suggest would be a damning undersell of Gio

Beane already did that with Cahill, I’d prefer he didn’t do it again.

The monster at the end of this blog.

by grover on Dec 20, 2011 11:42 AM EST up reply actions  

HA, A's fans are something else.

Trevor Cahill has never had a FIP sub 4.00. Thats worse than Livan.

You guys. You lollygag the ball around the infield. You lollygag your way down to first. You lollygag in and out of the dugout. You know what that makes you? Larry!

by Bsullivan on Dec 20, 2011 2:19 PM EST up reply actions  

But Livan left his 20's behind way back in the 60's

6 years of Cahill has significant value. Next year is his age 24 season. Deal with it.

You misunderstand my complaint re: the Cahill trade. Getting Parker back was a plus. But Beane has been obsessed with Cowgill since at least last year and probably 3-4 years. The A’s are selling to rebuild for a new stadium in 2015 or 2016, right? How does Cowgill, a projected 4th OFer who turns 26 next year, help the A’s put a contender in their new home?

The monster at the end of this blog.

by grover on Dec 20, 2011 2:35 PM EST up reply actions  

I know little about Cowgirl

But from what I understand, the A’s are moving in a defensive direction, and from what I do know he has speed and a strong arm. His offensive stats are there, albeit in the PCL.

But Parker is the catch. If Detwiler had a good year and we could get someone like Parker in an offseason trade, I’d be thrilled.

You guys. You lollygag the ball around the infield. You lollygag your way down to first. You lollygag in and out of the dugout. You know what that makes you? Larry!

by Bsullivan on Dec 20, 2011 2:50 PM EST up reply actions  

Quick look...

and cook has the upside of a closer. closers bring more prospects.

It always seems like your boy Beane is chasing the Great White Whale with all of his trades.

You guys. You lollygag the ball around the infield. You lollygag your way down to first. You lollygag in and out of the dugout. You know what that makes you? Larry!

by Bsullivan on Dec 20, 2011 2:53 PM EST up reply actions  

Cook projects as middle relief

He needs to take a major step in improving his command to end up pitching the 9th.

Cowgill projects as a tweener. Not enough speed for CF full time and not enough bat for a corner. The A’s appear to think otherwise, but non-biased sources like BA, BP and Sickels think he’s a quality back-up OFer.

The monster at the end of this blog.

by grover on Dec 20, 2011 3:03 PM EST up reply actions  

Perhaps you'll find some one else to rip off.

Cahill wasn’t a great pitcher. He was a slightly upgraded John Lanan.

In exchange, you recieved a basically-MLB ready prospect that projects to more than replace Cahill though you will likely keep him in the minors for polish. Additionally, you recieved an outfielder who Bill James projects .283/.341/.434. Is .775 OPS great? no. Is it better than many of the free agents that might fill your empty OF, yes. Will he also be cheaper? yes. Finally, you received an MLB-ready reliever prospect, who could be dealt at the inevitable trade deadline swap if he posts semi-decent numbers.

I don’t blame you for wanting to get something closer to Latos or Garza. However, i think both those trades were bad for the Reds and Cubs. I understand the Reds decision more because Grandal and Alonso were both blocked, and everyone knew that they were. Just like everyone knows that Beane needs to move Gio, because you guys declared that you aren’t looking to really field a team until the new stadium. Which makes sense given that the Rangers and Angels stars should be falling about then.

by chubias on Dec 20, 2011 4:41 PM EST up reply actions  

People have such short term memories

Who says Parker could be an Ace? BA, Sickels and maybe KG (been awhile, not gonna check).

Those same voices said Cahill could be an Ace prior to the 2009 season. Only instead of heading off to AA where he belonged the A’s called him up to Oakland. He didn’t even have a breaking ball in 2009, throwing fastballs and change-ups almost exclusively. Then, in 2010, when he probably should have spent the first half of the year in AAA (and actually started the year in Sacramento) so he could work on his new curveball vs. minor league hitters; Cahill ends up in Oakland for 30 GS and posts some superficially nice numbers. Now, after posting a fairly solid season in what should have been his first full year in the majors, everyone considers the 23 year old a middling SP.

I think that mindset is foolish.

As for Cowgill… I’ll ask again: How does he help the A’s build a contender in 2015?

He doesn’t.

If the A’s succeed in trading Gio and Bailey this offseason their Opening Day payroll projects to ~$33 million. They receive about $20 million in revenue sharing and we saw last year how the Marlins got chastised for not spending enough on their roster. I would rather the A’s went out and signed an Endy Chavez or Hell… Carlos Beltran for a couple seasons rather then waste ANY trade value in acquiring a Cowgill or Cook. It would be one thing if you could at least project them to be a starting caliber OF or a closer but neutral sources don’t think that highly of them. So whatever trade value you want to assign Cowgill and Cook this offseason should have been spent by the A’s on prospects with the chance to help the team achieve their stated goal of building a contender 3-4 years down the road.

Understand something… I don’t think Cahill’s present production merited the return Garza or Latos got. Speculatin’ on his future performance doesn’t really go anywhere. Gio Gonzalez, on the other hand, should bring back a similar return to the packages you mentioned. Gio’s only two full seasons accrued more fWAR and bWAR than Garza’s last two years in Tampa. He has an extra year of team control. These are undisputable facts.

You might think the Latos and Garza trades were bad BUT they establish a going rate for comparable talent. You can’t wish that away. I came over to discuss the Nationals’ prospects with people who know more about them than I do. Whomever acquires Gio is going to have to part with a premium position prospect OR a projected front of the rotation arm. Either Cole or Peacock fills that role. The big problem too few people are admitting is that Derek Norris, while a quality prospect, hurt his trade value by hitting .210 in AA. It raises legitimate questions to his ability to hit in the Show. Including him for Gio is to sell low on him. That means the 3rd piece in all this has to be more than a lottery ticket. The only way to avoid that is to improve the quality of the centerpiece heading to Oakland… that means Harper or including both Cole and Peacock.

I think both alternatives are non-starters for Washington; leaving the 4 player package the only viable option.

As for Beane needing to make these trades now… he really doesn’t! If Beane doesn’t make a move the A’s 2012 payroll was sitting around $55 million, well within Oakland’s means. I wouldn’t bet on them winning the AL West in 2012 but he’d be poised for the annual feeding frenzy that is the July trade deadline. And if he didn’t like the market then he’d still have plenty of leverage NEXT offseason to move his arms.

The monster at the end of this blog.

by grover on Dec 20, 2011 5:21 PM EST up reply actions  

FWIW

Orris’s season did not hurt his value with Sickels, or with the scouts he talks to.

by d_c_guy on Dec 20, 2011 5:40 PM EST via mobile up reply actions  

Incorrect

Norris was a B+ in the 2011 book. He’s now a B.

The monster at the end of this blog.

by grover on Dec 20, 2011 5:50 PM EST up reply actions  

Same guy who gave Phil Hughes an A and Brett Gardner a C+

I know who I want from the team more now.

I like Sickels because he has a lot to say and we need to go somewhere for commentary.

Its impossible to be good as his job, by we take his commentary too seriously I think. On both sides of the argument.

You guys. You lollygag the ball around the infield. You lollygag your way down to first. You lollygag in and out of the dugout. You know what that makes you? Larry!

by Bsullivan on Dec 20, 2011 6:08 PM EST up reply actions  

point being

its not what sickel thinks that matters, nor us. Its the scouts for the A’s and the Nats. I don’t think there is any question as to why Norris hit .210 and then Rizzo wanted him to play in front of scouts in AFL.

You guys. You lollygag the ball around the infield. You lollygag your way down to first. You lollygag in and out of the dugout. You know what that makes you? Larry!

by Bsullivan on Dec 20, 2011 6:11 PM EST up reply actions  

There's not single prospect watcher who's batting 1.000

What I like about Sickels (and I’ve disagreed with his calls on prospects in the past, too) is that everyone has access to the info. We can all speak the same langauge, as it were.

Especially since we (the fans) don’t have access to the scouting reports the A’s and Nats use.

Larger picture… to the argument that Gio isn’t worth what Latos brought SD… a package of Cole/Norris/Milone/Taylor IS less than what Cincy sent to the Padres.

The monster at the end of this blog.

by grover on Dec 20, 2011 6:16 PM EST up reply actions  

Those grades are preliminary

I was basing it on this comment from Sickels today:

I still believe in Derek Norris, and despite his problems getting over the Mendoza Line in ’11, his stock actually seems improved among scouts.

by d_c_guy on Dec 20, 2011 8:37 PM EST up reply actions  

Yes they are

Sickels already said he’s 90% certain he’ll bump Cole to a B+. So I’m cool with crediting Cole the better grade.

But he said nothing about doing the same for Norris. So unless Sickels says otherwise, Norris dropped a notch to a B.

The monster at the end of this blog.

by grover on Dec 20, 2011 9:26 PM EST up reply actions  

OT:

the android version of the sbnation app is out. ill review shortly

Yeah, well, you know, that's just like, uh, your opinion man

by TJL on Dec 20, 2011 10:36 AM EST reply actions  

hmmm

if youre going to use the broswer object, you need to enable scrolling/zooming. can’t login via yahoo with an HTC vision
(queue android fragmentation trolling…)

Yeah, well, you know, that's just like, uh, your opinion man

by TJL on Dec 20, 2011 11:06 AM EST up reply actions  

throw money at 'em

so the nats were at least interested in Yu Darvish, but weren’t willing to go $50 mil+ on him. Would/can the nats throw something like $25-30 million at the A’s to get them deal Gio? The A’s need money… this way we can keep our talent.

by nats11 on Dec 20, 2011 10:49 AM EST reply actions  

Still plenty of time

After all the complaining if Rizzo makes a good trade for GIO and picks up that Cuban Cf or Fielder most fans will consider this a good off-season. Picking up a #2 or #3 arm and some offense was the goal so go for it Rizzo make it happen the NATS are closer than a lot of fans think for a playoff spot!!!

by rbolt on Dec 20, 2011 12:44 PM EST reply actions  

If Rizzo picks up Gio and Fielder

AND we don’t lose the likes of Storen or Detwiler to the A’s for Gio then I would run around like a mad man screaming RIZZO IS GENIUS! ALL HAIL THE MIGHTY BIG HEAD OF RIZZO!

Seriously, I would do that.

Name a number between three and five.
.............
.............
Threeve.

by Mattionals on Dec 20, 2011 7:14 PM EST up reply actions  

I'm just going with Xavier Paul being the Main Target this off-season and run around yelling that, "Rizzo got his man!!!"

take that, Phillies!

"...I don't want to go watch American League baseball." Lance Berkman......LBIMH...

by cat daddy3000 on Dec 20, 2011 7:46 PM EST up reply actions  

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