Washington Nationals/Oakland A's Gio Gonzalez Talk Picks Up. Nats Claim Phillies' 3B Carlos Rivero.
by Patrick Reddington on Dec 21, 2011 2:31 PM EST
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PrintFOXSports.com's Ken Rosenthal (@Ken_Rosenthal) reported on Washington's interest in 26-year-old Oakland A's left-hander Gio Gonzalez last week and wrote on Twitter on Monday that the Nationals were, "... pushing hard for Gio. Discussing 4-for-1 trade with #Athletics." In a follow-up report entitled, "Nats working hard to land Gonzalez", the bow-tied FOXSports.com writer mentioned pitchers like 25-year-old '07 1st Round pick Ross Detwiler and 23-year-old right-hander Brad Peacock as possible targets for the A's while noting that the Nationals were also, "... deep at catcher," which led many to believe the Nats' top backstop prospect Derek Norris could be involved.
MLB.com's Bill Ladson, in an article this afternoon entitled, "Nationals actively pursuing A's ace Gonzalez", lists both Peacock and Norris as two of four, "... players the A's are looking at," as Washington and Oakland discuss a deal with the Nats MLB beat writer noting that, "... it is believed that Gonzalez will be traded soon." Gonzalez finished the 2011 season in Oakland with a (16-12) record, 3.12 ERA, 3.64 FIP, 4.05 BB/9 and 8.78 K/9 in 202.0 IP. In Mr. Ladson's estimation, even with Stephen Strasburg and Jordan Zimmermann in the Nats' rotation, "If [Gonzalez] were to join Washington's staff, Gonzalez would be the ace.
Peacock, the top pitcher on Baseball America's post-2011 Washington Nationals Top 10 prospect list, was (10-2) with a 2.01 ERA, 1.87 FIP, 11.77 K/9 and 2.10 BB/9 in 16 games (13 starts) and 98.2 IP at Double-A Harrisburg in 2011 before moving to Triple-A Syracuse where he went (5-1) with a 3.19 ERA, 4.18 FIP, 9.00 K/9 and 4.50 BB/9 in nine starts before he made his MLB debut in September. Peacock was (2-0) in two starts, one relief appearance and 12.0 IP with the Nats in which he gave up just one earned run and six walks while recording four K's.
Norris, 22, an '07 4th Round pick, made his second trip to the Arizona Fall League this year, finishing the AFL season with two doubles, two HR's, 12 walks, 14 K's, four stolen bases and a .276/.367/.382 slash in 21 games and 76 at bats. The top catcher in the Nats' system (and 9th prospect overall on BA's list) put up a .210/.367/.446 line and hit 17 doubles and 20 HR's in 104 games and 423 plate appearances at Double-A Harrisburg this season. D.C. GM Mike RIzzo told reporters earlier this winter that though Norris' .210 AVG this season, "...raised some eyebrows... his other peripherals were good. His power was as good as we've ever seen it, and again, his catch and throw skills have dramatically improved."
Who are the other two prospects being discussed? CBSSports.com's Jon Heyman (@JonHeymanCBS) listed several Nats' prospects he thought could be included in a deal with the A's, writing that the Nats are, "... said to be pushing for [Gio Gonzalez]. Have good prospects to trade: Peacock, Norris, [Destin] Hood, [Eury] Perez, [A.J.] Cole, etc." ESPN.com's Jim Bowden (@JimBowdenESPNxm) is hearing the chatter too, writing on Twitter just moments ago that the, "Nationals continue all out effort to trade for Gonzalez & stay alive in the [Prince] Fielder sweepstakes. A quiet off-season could turn loud in a hurry." Can Mike Rizzo shock the baseball world again?
• The Washington Nationals also announced this afternoon that they'd claimed 23-year-old former Indians' 3B prospect Carlos Rivero off waivers from the Philadelphia Phillies who had previously claimed Rivero off waivers from Cleveland. In 136 games and 568 plate appearances (most of which were spent at Double-A in the Phillies' system), Rivero, who was a shortstop but played third last season, had a .270/.326/.440 line with 38 doubles and 16 HR's. Over six seasons in the Indians and Phillies' organizations, Rivero has a .258/.317/.377 slash.
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Could be a really exciting next few days.
Cannot remember though, does MLB have any sort of roster freeze as far as trades are concerned around Christmas time?
by jimmylauderdale on Dec 21, 2011 2:46 PM EST reply actions
Don't know if it's official or just done out of respect for players...
Deals don’t seem to happen on holidays…but I believe they “can”…
Vivian Jaffe: "Have you ever transcended space and time?"
Albert Markovski: "Yes. No. Uh, time, not space... No, I don't know what you're talking about."
by Patrick Reddington on Dec 21, 2011 2:50 PM EST up reply actions
Perhaps that is the reason for the sudden "push."
And I have to say, excellent work staying on top of the posts this off-season. Every time I see a new bit of information pop up somewhere I can be sure you are going to have a new post up in a short time for those here to discuss it. Keep up the great work.
by jimmylauderdale on Dec 21, 2011 2:52 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I agree
Patrick… you are always on top of rumors and you certainly have my attention as the most current nats-news site. I don’t know if you get enough credit for the work you do, but Nat fans certainly appreciate the effort!
by natexpo on Dec 21, 2011 3:48 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
Thanks to you both...
Vivian Jaffe: "Have you ever transcended space and time?"
Albert Markovski: "Yes. No. Uh, time, not space... No, I don't know what you're talking about."
by Patrick Reddington on Dec 21, 2011 4:14 PM EST up reply actions
+ A ga-zillip
"player development" should not be gladiator games. by cat daddy3000 on Aug 6, 2011
by MissB on Dec 21, 2011 5:26 PM EST via mobile up reply actions 3 recs
Stupid twitchy phone... should be + A gazillion!
Patrick is the BESTEST…truly.
THANKS LOTS, Patrick!
"player development" should not be gladiator games. by cat daddy3000 on Aug 6, 2011
by MissB on Dec 21, 2011 5:30 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
+ga-zillip
Rob
--"Well my days of not taking you seriously are certainly coming to a middle." -- Mal Reynolds
+ +ga-zillip
Rec’d. About time we added a positive term to the FB lexicon!
Brain: "Pinky, are you pondering what i'm pondering?"
Pinky: "Yes, ... wait, ... no, ... never mind"
i thought it was just before the meetings
so a couple weeks ago
Werth signed on the eve of the winter meetings.
Vivian Jaffe: "Have you ever transcended space and time?"
Albert Markovski: "Yes. No. Uh, time, not space... No, I don't know what you're talking about."
by Patrick Reddington on Dec 21, 2011 3:13 PM EST up reply actions
Fun Fact
Number of times FOXSports.com writer/reporter Ken Rosenthal was referred to as “bow-tied” in stories on this website: 16
I’m bored and waiting for something to happen amid all this speculation…
I don't have a very high opinion of southern California, in sports or in general
You should count how many times I called Dunn the Nats' "big middle-of-the-order bat"...
#funwithkeywordsearches
Vivian Jaffe: "Have you ever transcended space and time?"
Albert Markovski: "Yes. No. Uh, time, not space... No, I don't know what you're talking about."
by Patrick Reddington on Dec 21, 2011 3:14 PM EST up reply actions
Dave Cameron Chat
2:49
Comment From Urooj
What is with the weird fascination with Gio? I can’t be the only one who thinks he is a disaster waiting to happen outside of Oakland with his control issues?
2:50
Dave Cameron: That’s a bit strong, but yeah, it’s funny how everyone just ignores the fact that his command is horrible.
You guys. You lollygag the ball around the infield. You lollygag your way down to first. You lollygag in and out of the dugout. You know what that makes you? Larry!
Detwiler has two years of service time
If Beane holds constant to his insistence on players with less than a year of service time then Detwiler isn’t in the discussion. Figure Harper and the 2011 draft class aren’t in the discussion then the max 4 player package Oakland could ask for (based on Sickels grading system) would be:
Cole (B+)
Peacock (B)
Norris (B)
Hood (B-)
You could substitute any B- prospect, obviously. I would argue that that is a slightly better package than SD got for Latos (B+/B+/B-/C+ with Volquez). But I’m not sure how willing any GM would be to part with his top 2 SP prospects.
Remove Cole from the equation and it looks something like this:
Peacock (B)
Norris (B)
Hood (B-)
Milone (B-)
Again, you can substitute the various B- prospects. I’d argue that this deal would be roughly equal to what SD acquired. But it also lacks the upside that Oakland NEEDS to be seeking.
So put Cole back in the mix:
Cole (B+)
Norris (B)
Hood (B-)
Taylor (C+)
Again, sub the B-/C+ names as desired (although Hood and Taylor have the upside Oakland needs). I’d also say this package is slightly less than what SD acquired.
The monster at the end of this blog.
For me personally, Cole would end the discussion.
I’d do your second deal, although I’d rather not trade both Peacock and Milone. I disagree with Sickels’s grade on Taylor, and the Nats certainly seem to value him highly.
They wont give up both Peacock, and Milone
As that would take out any pitching depth they had
MOAR SEVERINO!
well you add Gio
You guys. You lollygag the ball around the infield. You lollygag your way down to first. You lollygag in and out of the dugout. You know what that makes you? Larry!
but the extent of the depth is Ross Detwiler, and Yunesky Maya
and Det is out of options
MOAR SEVERINO!
Sure
But you’ve upgraded over Peacock and Milone for the “5th Starter”. So realistically you’ve taken what would be your 5th and now made him at least your 3rd, though presently Gio’s better than Strasburg or Zimmerman. So now your 4/5 is Wang/Lannan (vs. Lannan and Peacock/Milone/Detwiler).
Depth becomes less of an issue by adding a proven major league starter.
You guys. You lollygag the ball around the infield. You lollygag your way down to first. You lollygag in and out of the dugout. You know what that makes you? Larry!
You go from the depth being Peaock, Milone, Maya
so Maya wont see the light of day, to only 2 injuries and Maya is an everyday starter
MOAR SEVERINO!
Peacock, Milone, Gorzelanny, Detwiler, Maya
You guys. You lollygag the ball around the infield. You lollygag your way down to first. You lollygag in and out of the dugout. You know what that makes you? Larry!
and I don't see Detwiler needing options this year.
I think he pitched well enough in 2011 to make this club.
You guys. You lollygag the ball around the infield. You lollygag your way down to first. You lollygag in and out of the dugout. You know what that makes you? Larry!
I really dont think we have space for him in the pen, and if we get Gio there are no rotation spots
which menas we have to force him in somewhere
MOAR SEVERINO!
how is that different than the alternative
Detwiler is either the 5th starter, or long relief regardless of what happens. Peacock and Milone would be in AAA.
You guys. You lollygag the ball around the infield. You lollygag your way down to first. You lollygag in and out of the dugout. You know what that makes you? Larry!
Is Peacock and Milone are gone
Maya is the SP1 in Syracuse, with Peaock and Milone Maya is the SP3 in Syracuse. Unless you have faith in Erik Arnesen to be a MLB starter, that is not good depth. I could very easily see Detwiler traded somewhere depeding on what dominoes fall
MOAR SEVERINO!
Aren't we beyond our days of AAA spot starters?
Gorzelanny and Detwiler can certainly fill the role. Craig Stammen can fill that role.
You guys. You lollygag the ball around the infield. You lollygag your way down to first. You lollygag in and out of the dugout. You know what that makes you? Larry!
I see your point though.
But Maya should be dropped if he can’t make a MLB start.
You guys. You lollygag the ball around the infield. You lollygag your way down to first. You lollygag in and out of the dugout. You know what that makes you? Larry!
Injuries happen
Strasburg will not make it through the season becuase of an innings count, pushing Det into the rotation. Wang is far from a shure thing too. I think Stammens days as a SP are done, and I think he could be a fine RP
MOAR SEVERINO!
I disagree on his grades all the time
Doesn’t mean I’ve found a better common score card people can use to discuss guys with.
Acquiring Peacock and Milone doesn’t do much for the A’s. Braden could be back to start the season or by May at the latest. Anderson in July.
The monster at the end of this blog.
I have a feeling...
…that if this trade happens you will be disappointed.
I will be shocked and very disappointed if Rizzo gives up a prospect like Cole in addition to Peacock and Norris. I’d rather wait until next off-season and see where the team stands, and who among guys like Cain, Greinke, and Hamels is available. Heck, I’d rather go Strasburg-Zimm-Detwiler-Peacock-Milone for 2013 with guys like Solis, Purke, Meyer, and Cole knocking on the door.
Sure
but as I have mentioned, all of those guys become the demands of next off-season trades.
You guys. You lollygag the ball around the infield. You lollygag your way down to first. You lollygag in and out of the dugout. You know what that makes you? Larry!
With the current situation of the Nats
It seems unlikely Cole gets his MLB debut in a Nats uniform. Eventually he’ll be demanded in a trade. So unless they win the world series without a trade, I have hard time seeing him staying in the Nats uniform. 2014 or whatever is just too far away.
You guys. You lollygag the ball around the infield. You lollygag your way down to first. You lollygag in and out of the dugout. You know what that makes you? Larry!
I would be shocked if Beane got Cole/Peacock/Norris!
I’m merely trying to offer a non-Washington perspective on what the A’s could be looking for. I’m not enamored on Norris, so for me the ideal max value would be Cole/Peacock/Hood/Taylor. Which matches up with the B+/B/B-/C+ value scale but again, raises the issue of Rizzo being willing to part with his top 2 SP prospects.
The monster at the end of this blog.
I think the basic problem
is…
we are all enamored with Norris here at federal baseball. Until this year he has always been ranked as a higher prospect than Wilson Ramos. Keith Law etc. sees Norris as a better long-term answer at catcher. (or has seen in some past chats).
He could be a bust. Most certainly.
You guys. You lollygag the ball around the infield. You lollygag your way down to first. You lollygag in and out of the dugout. You know what that makes you? Larry!
OK
So which is more palatable to give up?
Cole/Peacock or Cole/Norris?
The monster at the end of this blog.
Perez
The swine wants Eury Perez, as well he might. Perez is our future center-fielder.
"I can go to my left or right, I am amphibious." - Charles Shackelford
Yes, but it's a bitter pill
Fleet of foot, good-hitting center-fielders are sho-nuff damn hard to find. Yes they are.
"I can go to my left or right, I am amphibious." - Charles Shackelford
Corey Brown?
Yer nuts. Fu-git that kid. Them others, who knows? Eury, on t’other hand, is gold. One more year, and he’s in the bigs, probably starting.
Still, I must agree – in a deal for Gio, no reason Perez should not be on the table.
"I can go to my left or right, I am amphibious." - Charles Shackelford
Thought Perez was supposed to have some gap power
What the Hell happened there?
The monster at the end of this blog.
You thought right - got him some gap power
Speed too. He’s a comer.
"I can go to my left or right, I am amphibious." - Charles Shackelford
If they want Perez they can have him
Perez is fast, but has no pop and doesn’t walk. Plus he’s not a natural defender. He’s real, real raw and there’s good reason that he fell off the Top 20 Prospects on Sickels sight. More than that, there are plenty of season ticket holders in the Natmosphere and they are not jumping up to defend Eury when the doubters downgrade him.
Waiting to bang my drum in parades for the Nats and Caps.
I hate to pour cold water on any of our guys
I was all in for Perez heading into this year and I saw him once in Hagerstown, but his performance in Potomac left much to be desired by many accounts.
Waiting to bang my drum in parades for the Nats and Caps.
by souldrummer on Dec 21, 2011 10:28 PM EST up reply actions
Likewise – but I think that we overvalue our guys and need to see the wood for the trees: most of them will never get near the show.
He’s still young – so could improve a lot. But the idea that we’d keen any of the guys listed above out of a trade is silly. There would be only a handful of guys this team wouldn’t or shouldn’t trade.
Ian Desmond is my hero!
there are plenty of season ticket holders in the Natmosphere and they are not jumping up to defend Eury when the doubters downgrade him.
My ears were ringing.
Rob
--"Well my days of not taking you seriously are certainly coming to a middle." -- Mal Reynolds
My mistake
I meant many Potomac Nationals season ticketholders, people who have seen him in person over many games.
Waiting to bang my drum in parades for the Nats and Caps.
Gio's on MLB Network Radio right now...I'm sure Bowden will ask aboot the Nats...
Vivian Jaffe: "Have you ever transcended space and time?"
Albert Markovski: "Yes. No. Uh, time, not space... No, I don't know what you're talking about."
by Patrick Reddington on Dec 21, 2011 4:07 PM EST reply actions
my general impression about Oakland/LA/SD..
…is that you should probably add at least 0.5 in ERA once the pitcher leaves those pitcher-friendly confines. Even throwing out his first two years, Gio’s ERA of 3.1 or 3.2 kicks up to 3.6 or 3.7 for the Nats. That doesn’t make him an ace over SS or JZimm in my book.
But sure, I’d love to have him on the staff. Just don’t consider him your ace – but a nice number 3, putting Wang and Lannan at 4/5 and a very very nice rotation at that! I’d think the baby raccoons would be happy.
If you don't eat your meat, you can't have any pudding! How can you have any pudding if you don't eat your meat?!
But he'd be coming to the National League...
…which drops his era back down by .5. If he has a 3.1 in the AL he’s pretty solid.
Dave made a good post on this today
he’ll be going from a pitcher friendly park to an offense friendly/neutral park…and if he had enough runs to qualify would rank behind only Oliver Perez as the in walks allowed per nine innings among active pitchers.
http://districtsportspage.com/nationals-mull-gio-gonzalez-but-at-what-cost/3091
Ian Desmond is my hero!
if he had enough runs to qualify = if he had enough innings to qualify
(brain on holidays)
Ian Desmond is my hero!
THIS is why I'm not so hot on Gio...
I still would prefer Oswalt over Gio for 2012. Plus he’d be a better mentor for the Nats’ kidz.
(Alas, I’m fully expecting Rizzo to do the deal for GG since I’m opposed to it. Ornery Rizzo.)
Rizzo could go hard after Grienke or Hammels next year after Oswalt’s year and not give up all the prospects.
"player development" should not be gladiator games. by cat daddy3000 on Aug 6, 2011
by MissB on Dec 21, 2011 5:40 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Yea im not in favour of trading the farm...
But I do see the value in a hard throwing leftie. But Id be loathe to trade some of the talent being talked about. At the end of the day though, guys like Peacock and Millone are going to be playing most of the year at AAA next season – so its probably a better idea to get something for them if we have surplus.
Im with you about Roy. I think he’s a steal at a one year deal.
Ian Desmond is my hero!
Trade who you have to trade to get him
because we can still go out and get Greinke, Hamels or Cain next year. Imagine the staff we can have in 2013. Oh my God it could be amazing.
Gonna get us some Gio
I likes.
"I can go to my left or right, I am amphibious." - Charles Shackelford
Get us some Oswalt too
Why not?
"I can go to my left or right, I am amphibious." - Charles Shackelford
O Noes
Not Cain!!!
So conflicted :(
I don't have a very high opinion of southern California, in sports or in general
by short_shifter on Dec 21, 2011 8:17 PM EST up reply actions
any updates
any updates guys on the trade?
by Sportzxpert on Dec 21, 2011 5:25 PM EST via Android app reply actions
Nothing new since these last two stories went up....
Vivian Jaffe: "Have you ever transcended space and time?"
Albert Markovski: "Yes. No. Uh, time, not space... No, I don't know what you're talking about."
by Patrick Reddington on Dec 21, 2011 5:27 PM EST up reply actions
Going to see "Girl with the Dragon Tattoo"...
Hope nothing happens in next two hours+…
Vivian Jaffe: "Have you ever transcended space and time?"
Albert Markovski: "Yes. No. Uh, time, not space... No, I don't know what you're talking about."
by Patrick Reddington on Dec 21, 2011 5:28 PM EST reply actions
Will do...
i’m more of a David Fincher fan than a film of the books though, interested to see…
Vivian Jaffe: "Have you ever transcended space and time?"
Albert Markovski: "Yes. No. Uh, time, not space... No, I don't know what you're talking about."
by Patrick Reddington on Dec 21, 2011 5:37 PM EST up reply actions
Me three...don't do it!
"player development" should not be gladiator games. by cat daddy3000 on Aug 6, 2011
by MissB on Dec 21, 2011 6:48 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
The original trilogy was pretty good.
Rob
--"Well my days of not taking you seriously are certainly coming to a middle." -- Mal Reynolds
If you aren't offended by the graphic explicit material...
It’s a well-made movie. David Fincher’s a brilliant director and Rooney Mara’s going to win something for her performance…
Vivian Jaffe: "Have you ever transcended space and time?"
Albert Markovski: "Yes. No. Uh, time, not space... No, I don't know what you're talking about."
by Patrick Reddington on Dec 22, 2011 12:26 PM EST up reply actions
A couple of points
(1) Ladsen thinking that Gonzalez is the ace ahead of Strasburg does not increase my estimation of Ladsen.
(2) Before writing off Gonzalez as a product of a pitcher-friendly home field, check out his home/road splits.
by d_c_guy on Dec 21, 2011 5:41 PM EST via mobile reply actions
Yikes!
I don’t always agree with Ladson’s speculations. That’s one where I certainly disagree. What are those home road splits?
Waiting to bang my drum in parades for the Nats and Caps.
His Home/away splits are very significant
Have a look!
http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/split.cgi?id=gonzagi01&year=Career&t=p#hmvis::none
Ian Desmond is my hero!
2011
FIP
Home – 3.33
Away – 4.00
xFIP
Home – 3.51
Away – 3.99
Eww… thought it’s crazy/interesting that he was luck neutral on the road when it came to homeruns.
by McCutchenIsTheTruth on Dec 21, 2011 6:03 PM EST up reply actions
For some random anecdotal comparision.
Halladay’s has a home/away difference of .33 and John Lannan has a home/away difference of about .40. Kershaw is at about 2.48/3.32.
Hiroki Kuroda
do the math
you can’t have home vs road splits like that and still be 3.1 for the season. it doesnt add up.
by apostle61 on Dec 21, 2011 6:51 PM EST via Android app up reply actions
Ladsen don't know his *ss from third-base
…but he never has, so what else is new?
JZimm will break-out in 2012; Strasburg, even under a innings limit, will destroy everything in his path; and Lannon will be formidable, as will Wang. By no means would Gio be our ace, but he’d shore fit in mighty well. Yes he would.
"I can go to my left or right, I am amphibious." - Charles Shackelford
Ladson is like a broken clock...right only twice/day
His fevered imagination is working OVERTIME if he thinks GG would be the ace ahead of SS.
"player development" should not be gladiator games. by cat daddy3000 on Aug 6, 2011
by MissB on Dec 21, 2011 6:46 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
You're overly generous, methinks.
I think he’s more like a clock that loses a second every day, so he’s only right once every 43,000 days or so.
Rob
--"Well my days of not taking you seriously are certainly coming to a middle." -- Mal Reynolds
I wholeheartedly endorse this post
If ya can’t be optimistic in December about yer ballclub, when the heck CAN you be?
+ga-zillip!!!!
If you don't eat your meat, you can't have any pudding! How can you have any pudding if you don't eat your meat?!
Halliday, Verlander, and King Felix are aces ahead of Strasburg, that’s about it.
Aim for the head baby Jesus
I think you can make that list a bit larger
Strasburg is not an ace yet. He needs to earn it.
You guys. You lollygag the ball around the infield. You lollygag your way down to first. You lollygag in and out of the dugout. You know what that makes you? Larry!
by Bsullivan on Dec 21, 2011 6:51 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
is the stuff there....yes
but beyond that, he needs to go out and win 15-20 games before we put his name near any CY Young candidates.
You guys. You lollygag the ball around the infield. You lollygag your way down to first. You lollygag in and out of the dugout. You know what that makes you? Larry!
Until his innings limit is gone there are some other names I'd put ahead of him
Lincecum and Cliff Lee for starters.
Waiting to bang my drum in parades for the Nats and Caps.
OK, so let's say you're GM for the Tigers, Phils, Giants or whatever team
…and maybe you got an offer from the Nats to swap your best SP, current or prospect, I mean the very best you got – fill in the blank – for Strasburg, one-for-one. Straight up. Do you jump at it, or do you quibble? Tell you what, I’ll hum the jeopardy theme, while you think about it…for about two seconds.
"I can go to my left or right, I am amphibious." - Charles Shackelford
Ian Desmond in the Gio Gonzalez trade?
It’s possible Washington could be enticed to include young shortstop Ian Desmond
According to Jon Heyman at CBS sports
Not Desmond and good prospects.
He's also supposed to be our leadoff hitter at this point.
This looks more serious than “Nationals offered Wilson 6 years,” but I’ll believe it when I see it.
Desmond is NOT a leadoff hitter...maybe wants to e
He’s just kluged in there because there’s noone else any better…still doesn’t make him good at it. I predict he’ll be traded soon because he won’t make the transition to utility guy.
"player development" should not be gladiator games. by cat daddy3000 on Aug 6, 2011
by MissB on Dec 21, 2011 9:18 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
I don't think he's one either, but who else can do it?
The fact that we apparently didn’t even bid on Aoki tells me that the plan is probably to go with Desmond. At this point I would prefer Crisp, but I haven’t seen him connected to the Nats at all.
I'm having a hard time making sense of Rizzo
at the moment. Aoki seemed the PERFECT FIT for the leadoff/CF that the Nats need so desperately. Very curious stuff.
"player development" should not be gladiator games. by cat daddy3000 on Aug 6, 2011
by MissB on Dec 21, 2011 9:27 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
I suspect
That Rizzo may just not have thought Aoki was that good, or worth it. Keith Law, for one, doesn’t think he’s more than a fourth outfielder and is suspicious of the bat. It’s entirely possible Rizzo felt similarly and didn’t want to make a commitment to another unstartable outfielder.
by Armless Penguin on Dec 21, 2011 9:32 PM EST up reply actions
I'm not a reactionary contrarian or anything but i say no to gio
unless of course maya is going to be the centerpiece of the trade. This will not be the best pitching staff ever with or without him. Even the best is a far distance from the perfect pitching staff. I hope there isn’t some managerial preoccupation with building the perfect rotation because that is a dream.
Next season these pitchers will cost games. There will be times when the offense does more than enough to win and if the starter just could’ve been average there would be a curly W. I know this because it happens every year to every team. At work I refer to this as a statistical near-certainty. I just hope that rizzo doesn’t go overboard trying to get 5 number 1’s.
my opinion (and possibly the majority’s) is that the balance of this roster is shifted too far towards SPAD and while each of those initials are important and the nats will need to rely on them to consistently win, i would strongly prefer that whatever potential offenza is in the system not be traded away. I’m someone that delights in amazing pitching and defense like dueling shutouts carrying into the late innings but the status quo is going to lead to zimmerminning turning into a verb (a legendary pitching performance resulting in a 0-1 loss).
Yeah, well, you know, that's just like, uh, your opinion man
And Davey's not a big SPAD guy...wants those
big hairy bashers especially off the bench. He definitely wants lots more Offenza. And the young pitching corps deserves MOAR O!
Please no more Zimmermanning in 2012.
"player development" should not be gladiator games. by cat daddy3000 on Aug 6, 2011
by MissB on Dec 21, 2011 9:22 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Even if we got us some Gio, he'd be pacing the dugout between innings like all the others, mumbling
…git me sum runz, ya’ll. Ah need’um.
"I can go to my left or right, I am amphibious." - Charles Shackelford
The prospects that are being talked about for Gio aren't really major bats
Hood is still a ways away and Eury Perez is real, real raw. Norris is blocked at the moment by Ramos and there are other fringier catching prospects in the system too. Norris probably belongs in the AL where he can DH some if he doesn’t improve his receiving skills.
Waiting to bang my drum in parades for the Nats and Caps.
by souldrummer on Dec 21, 2011 10:31 PM EST up reply actions
MOAR Offenza!
Rob
--"Well my days of not taking you seriously are certainly coming to a middle." -- Mal Reynolds
If'n we can make a good deal for Gio, fine - but I see no reason why we should spread-eagle for anybody
Much as I like Gio, I have already predicted that in 2012 Morse will hit more homers than Fielder, and I’ll also predict that JZimm will notch more Ws than either Wilson or Buehrle – and maybe more than botha’ them overpaid sunzabiches put together. Just you wait.
"I can go to my left or right, I am amphibious." - Charles Shackelford
MUST READ: Boswell on the Nats' winter...
“Nationals have more cash coming in, but refuse to spend it.”
Vivian Jaffe: "Have you ever transcended space and time?"
Albert Markovski: "Yes. No. Uh, time, not space... No, I don't know what you're talking about."
by Patrick Reddington on Dec 21, 2011 10:08 PM EST reply actions
I'll believe that part of this is that he was a Stan Kasten guy
Didn’t Stan feel somewhat confined by the Lerners?
Waiting to bang my drum in parades for the Nats and Caps.
by souldrummer on Dec 21, 2011 11:14 PM EST up reply actions
Gen. Boswell always at the rear of the charge!
Perhaps a professional sports writer in DC has a greater access and inside knowledge of the Nationals, but if he does, he declines to share it. The only factoid that he drops is that the Nationals are getting a new deal from MASN at some point, and speculates that it could be worth about $30 million a year, which was reported 4 months ago. Otherwise, all he does is complain that we didn’t overpay for Buerhle, haven’t overpaid for Gio, etc. As much as I want to contend in 2012, all Nationals fans should realize that are best years of contention are and have always been 2013-2015. Frankly, Boswell’s piece seems pretty lazy, and attempts to build his on following by attacking the Lerners, who are unpopular because they are rich and don’t spend money like they are in a rap music video.
Instead of Boswell attacking Rizzo doing a number of smart moves, we see him bomb for not making a big splash. Considering how awful our bench production was last year, I am pretty glad that they are looking make some changes there. We did lose pretty much our entire bench to free agency this year. Yet, Boswell mocks the entire idea.
I’m all for making the team better, but doesn’t necessarily mean spending money like the Marlins, and the off season isn’t over yet.
What a jerk.
Boswell's job is to sell papers
He gets paid to be dramatic and it’s part of his job. I like him because he writes well. He wants superstars to write about because they sell papers and give him more dramatic stuff to write. I think those of us on this board follow the team closely and make an effort to really add to our knowledge and know things from all sides. That’s not necessarily the job of a columnist, who has to form strong opinions that sell papers.
I don’t think he’s a jerk, just loud enough and articulate to get heard. I’m glad that we have a columnist who at least has a sense of history. Jason Reid’s the guy that I don’t dig as much. He is bland, bland, bland and his stuff bores me.
Waiting to bang my drum in parades for the Nats and Caps.
by souldrummer on Dec 21, 2011 11:05 PM EST up reply actions
I can't help but notice that you make several of the same complaints below.
I agree that his job is to sell papers. I just didn’t find anything he said insightful or even thoughtful in this piece. It read like he was a ranting fanboy upset that his team hadn’t signed Fielder and Pujols cause that so freaking awesome! Maybe I’m just in a bad mood, but every sentence I read made me want to force feed him Thorazine.
You've certainly got me making the same complaints!
I like article because it stirs things up a bit. I disagree with him but I like being challenged.
Waiting to bang my drum in parades for the Nats and Caps.
by souldrummer on Dec 21, 2011 11:58 PM EST up reply actions
Boswell's alarmist in some ways, but I learned a lot from that article
I didn’t realize that the MASN deal is up for revision in the Nats favor. If that’s the case, a lot of gnashing of teeth about re-signing current assets as they hit their arbitration years is still a long ways away.
Boswell is alarmist in a lot of ways, though, and for those who only read him and don’t follow other sources to get the opposing views he can lead some astray.
1) We can’t sign Cespedes (sp?) yet. He’s not a free agent. If that’s their guy, be patient Bos.
2) It takes two to tango to make a trade. Compare the price of the Latos deal to what Beane is likely to demand for Gio Gonzalez and maybe it’s easier to understand how Rizzo’s love for his prospects, not the Lerner’s purse strings could be holding things up.
3) Oswalt is pulling the strings on his market, not the lack of an aggressive offer.
4) Buerhle and Wilson were probably overpaid for. If Rizzo thinks they are overvalued he will continue to earn the trust of ownership to go after better valued assets by showing he only spends their cash when he feels it’s warranted.
The biggest thing for this article is that it implies the Lerners, not Rizzo, are in control and I still don’t see much to show that yet.
Waiting to bang my drum in parades for the Nats and Caps.
by souldrummer on Dec 21, 2011 11:01 PM EST up reply actions
I agree with you about some of the alarmist stuff. Worse comes to worse – and Rizzo does little other than improve the bench…i still think we’re a better team than last year and probably a better record.
Id rather rizzo make one good move than 10 bad ones… I think we, as fans need to make an assessment of the team in Spring rather than December… I could cliche and say something like “World Series aren’t won in December”, etc.
Ian Desmond is my hero!
From... @Ken_Rosenthal
Source: DeRosa with #Nationals will be a one-year major-league deal. He will play super-utility role, serve as RH hitter off bench.
like the Derosa signing
low risk/high reward. injured last 2 seasons but the 2 years before that had 23 and 21 homers, good OBP. should be a solid pinch hitter/utility guy to play pretty much everywhere. definitely prefer him to guys like Cora
by dcsportsfanatic on Dec 21, 2011 10:50 PM EST up reply actions
Wonder if DeRosa is a backup if they move Desmond
Then play Lombo at 2nd and move Espi to SS.
Ian Desmond is my hero!
I like it
now go get Dobbs too
Flores
Bernadina
DeRosa
Dobbs
Cameron
Not a bad bench at all
MOAR SEVERINO!
I hope that we can get a better bat than Dobbs.
Just so we are clear, Johnny Gomes posted a higher OPS than Dobbs.
According to Zuckermans last tweet...
after returning from wrist injury in Aug, DeRosa hit .367 with .439 OBP in 29 games
but only 1 XBH
there’s also a link in another thread showing he hardly ever pulled the ball to LF after coming back…
Brain: "Pinky, are you pondering what i'm pondering?"
Pinky: "Yes, ... wait, ... no, ... never mind"
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