Washington Nationals Reportedly Acquire Oakland A's Lefty Gio Gonzalez. [Updated]
by Patrick Reddington on Dec 22, 2011 4:30 PM EST
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• Confirmation 4:50 pm EST: via FOXSports.com's Ken Rosenthal (@Ken_Rosenthal): "Confirmed: #Nationals acquire Gio from #Athletics for C Norris, RHPs Cole and Peacock and LHP Milone. @keithlaw first to report. #MLB
• 4:15 pm EST: From ESPN.com's Keith Law: (@keithlaw): Gio to Nats for Cole, Norris, Peacock, and Milone. Love this for Oakland.
• Update 4:20 pm EST: via Susan Slusser (@SusanSlusser) of the San Francisco Chronicle: "I have confirmation from the #Nationals side that the deal is done. Gio to Washington. #Athletics
3:15 pm EST: If reports this afternoon are to be believed, the Oakland A's are very close to dealing 26-year-old left-hander Gio Gonzalez. The word coming from Twitter this afternoon is that it's down to a two-team race with the Washington Nationals and Boston Red Sox both attempting to put together the right package that will pry the one-time Chicago White Sox' draft pick away from Oakland. CBSSports.com's Jon Heyman (@JonHeymanCBS) started the excitement this afternoon, tweeting that, "Word is, trade talk 'progressing' with gio. lhp, 26, popular beyond belief. Nats [are] definitely still in, not sure who else." Mr. Heyman followed up on the initial message by adding that the Red Sox were believed to still be involved, though he offered the opinion that the, "Nats have prospect ammunition for Gio. [Derek] Norris, [Brad] Peacock, [A.J.] Cole, {Eury] Perez, [Destin] Hood," and he wondered,"... could [Ian] Desmond or [Danny] Espinosa be in play, too?"
Former D.C. GM Jim Bowden (@JimBowdenESPNxm) shared his own thoughts via Twitter, speculating that, "If Gio Gonzalez is traded to Washington...I expect the deal to look something like: A.J. Cole, Brad Peacock, Destin Hood and Derek Norris." Peter Gammons (@PGammo) said the deal was likely going to go down today, writing on Twiiter that the Red Sox might pursue a separate deal for reliever Andrew Bailey.
FOXSports.com's Ken Rosenthal (@Ken_Rosenthal) speculated that the Sox could be going for both available A's, writing on Twitter that his sources were telling him, "Sources: #RedSox trying to get G. Gonzalez, Bailey in 'monster' deal. #Rangers, #Rays also on Bailey. #Nationals team to beat on Gio." Oakland's left-hander finished the 2011 season (his fourth MLB campaign) with a (16-12) record, 3.12 ERA, 3.64 FIP, a league-leading 91 walks (4.05 BB/9) and 197 K's (8.78 K/9) in 32 starts and 202.0 IP.
Gonzalez emerged as a target for the Nationals after Washington missed out on their top target, Mark Buehrle, who signed for more money and a year more than the Nats were willing to offer. After talking to Oakland at the Winter Meetings, however, the Nationals
MLB.com's Bill Ladson's sources told him recently, as quoted in his article entitled, "Nats out on Darvish, likely to stick with rotation", that though Washington had inquired about A's left-hander Gio Gonzalez's availability, the Nats, "... are all but out of the Gio Gonzalez sweepstakes because, according to another source, the Athletics are 'way out of line' in what they want in return." Three days ago, FOXSports.com's Ken Rosenthal reported on Twitter that the Nationals and A's were talking again, reporting on Twitter (@Ken_Rosenthal) that his sources said the Nats were, "... pushing hard for Gio. Discussing 4-for-1 trade with #Athletics."
• What the Nationals Are Giving Up For Gio:
Brad Peacock, 23, the top pitcher on Baseball America's post-2011 Washington Nationals Top 10 prospect list, was (10-2) with a 2.01 ERA, 1.87 FIP, 11.77 K/9 and 2.10 BB/9 in 16 games (13 starts) and 98.2 IP at Double-A Harrisburg in 2011 before moving to Triple-A Syracuse where he went (5-1) with a 3.19 ERA, 4.18 FIP, 9.00 K/9 and 4.50 BB/9 in nine starts before he made his MLB debut in September. Peacock was (2-0) in two starts, one relief appearance and 12.0 IP with the Nats in which he gave up just one earned run and six walks while recording four K's.
Derek Norris, 22, an '07 4th Round pick, made his second trip to the Arizona Fall League this year, finishing the AFL season with two doubles, two HR's, 12 walks, 14 K's, four stolen bases and a .276/.367/.382 slash in 21 games and 76 at bats. The top catcher in the Nats' system (and 9th prospect overall on BA's list) put up a .210/.367/.446 line and hit 17 doubles and 20 HR's in 104 games and 423 plate appearances at Double-A Harrisburg this season. D.C. GM Mike RIzzo told reporters earlier this winter that though Norris' .210 AVG this season, "...raised some eyebrows... his other peripherals were good. His power was as good as we've ever seen it, and again, his catch and throw skills have dramatically improved."
Tommy Milone, 24. Milone, an '08 10th Round pick, made his MLB debut in September 2011 after a full season at Triple-A Syracuse, where the left-hander was (12-6) with a 3.22 ERA and a 2.24 FIP in 24 starts and 148.1 IP over which he walked just 16 (0.97 BB/9) and struck out 155 (9.40 K/9). In five starts with the Nats in late 2011, Milone was (1-0) with a 3.81 ERA, 3.56 FIP, 5.19 K/9 and 1.38 BB/9).
A.J. Cole, 19, is the Nats' 2010 4th Round pick, a 6'4'' right-handed high schooler out of Florida the Nats gave a well-above slot deal since he had signability concerns over a commitment to the University of Miami. In his first full season at Class-A Hagerstown in the Nats' system, Cole was (4-7) with a 4.04 ERA, 2.53 FIP, 24 BB (2.43 BB/9) and 108 K's (10.92 K/9). In a recent interview on MLB Network Radio, D.C. GM Mike Rizzo singled Cole out for praise, describing the right-hander as, "... a special talent. He's a 6'5'' right-hander pitcher who's a high school projection draft. The velocity has come, he was 95-97[mph] at the end of the season last year and really you could see him developing as a prospect."
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Oh, now, COME ON.
Let’s not go overboard!
"I just want to tell you both good luck. We're all counting on you."
-Leslie Nielsen, Airplane
Give it a couple years and we’ll see if it is a Colon for Phillips, Lee, Sizemore deal.
Why not us? Why not now?
The comparison is ludicrous on its face
The trade was for four months of Bartolo Colon. This trade is for four years of Gio Gonzalez.
by d_c_guy on Dec 22, 2011 8:36 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
This.
Waiting to bang my drum in parades for the Nats and Caps.
by souldrummer on Dec 22, 2011 10:48 PM EST up reply actions
I...ow. I want to say I like it, actually.
I do like it. I just wish that we’d paid less.
"I just want to tell you both good luck. We're all counting on you."
-Leslie Nielsen, Airplane
Rizzo better be right on this one
thats a HEAVY price
Teams I support: Redskins, Wizards, Nationals. MMA & Boxing fanatic.
Twitter: @StillUnknown85
This is Rizzo's fork in the road...
Gio = Great = Rizzo points to head
Gio = Bad = Rizzo is gone
In either case Milone/Norris/Cole/Peacock are gone!!!
As some one else tweeted
Go NatGio !
That's overstated
GG could be a solid #2-3 SP for the next four years with the Nationals. The four players we let go of all show promise, but have 8 MLB games total. This trade will take 2-3 years to sort out in terms of value gained or lost. Yes, it stings now, but give it a while. You might not even see the scar.
"Things are going great, and they're only gettin' better..." Timbuk3
by BinM on Dec 22, 2011 8:03 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I don't think that this is Rizzo's fork in the road.
Ultimately, he’s judged on wins and losses. He’s allowed to make some mistakes with wins and losses. If Gio pitches poorly and the Nats manage to contend this year and make the playoffs the next, the trade is just collateral damage for an aggressive GM.
Waiting to bang my drum in parades for the Nats and Caps.
by souldrummer on Dec 22, 2011 10:49 PM EST up reply actions
If they were going to give up that much, it should have been for a hitter.
I’m not convinced that Milone and Norris are going to amount to much, but Peacock and Cole are a steep price.
it's a tough call
If i was being objective – I say that Peacock and Milone are avg 4-5 guys, Norris a decent DH (not an All Star) and Cole could be the real bolter. It could be very very good for the A’s but equally this could be very good for the Nats (if we contend).
Ian Desmond is my hero!
Merq, your best take in this deal is Brad Peacock.
He’s a comer, and will make your rotation come ST. Just you wait. For the sake of my drinking habit, I hope to God he don’t notch more Ws next year than Gio, and there’s a good chance he does.
"I can go to my left or right, I am amphibious." - Charles Shackelford
you have peacock pencilled in for 15+ wins?
by mechanicsville on Dec 22, 2011 7:47 PM EST via Android app up reply actions
I love Peacock as much as the next guy -but at the end of the day he isnt proven at the MLB level and really caught fire late in his career. It’s always risky for me to see a guy come from nowhere…but it happens. I think you need to be prepared that Peacock does nothing as much as he is lights out.
Ian Desmond is my hero!
There's a lot of debate about him.
He’s either a legit #3 starter who needs some more time in AAA to find his groove, or he’ll top out as a long reliever, or he should be converted to EPIC closer.
"I just want to tell you both good luck. We're all counting on you."
-Leslie Nielsen, Airplane
on a more serious note
What can we expect?
He has his walks, to be sure,
but his curveball is one of the best in the majors. His two-seam also doesn’t get as much love as it should.
He's gonna be a fan favorite, that's for sure
the guy is very likable…
"Minutes from the last save opportunity...Balfour got 3 outs..."- Nico
by stranahanahan on Dec 22, 2011 4:44 PM EST up reply actions
I think the Nat fans will be happy with Gio.
Good guy and I think his is really just starting to become a really GOOD pitcher! The Nats will be very interesting to watch this season! Good luck Gio A’s fans will miss you!
Bring back the Pac-10!!!
How big a factor is the A's park in his success?
"I just want to tell you both good luck. We're all counting on you."
-Leslie Nielsen, Airplane
Not as much as you'd think
http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/is-gio-gonzalez-worth-the-hype/
"Minutes from the last save opportunity...Balfour got 3 outs..."- Nico
by stranahanahan on Dec 22, 2011 4:45 PM EST up reply actions
I mean, he's not a sinkerballer or anything like that.
But between his curveball and his (still developing) changeup, it’s either swing and a miss, or swing and hit it on the ground.
Or a "stare-at-the-obvious-ball?"
"I just want to tell you both good luck. We're all counting on you."
-Leslie Nielsen, Airplane
Rarely happens
It’s one of the better curves in baseball, and it’s devastating.
"Minutes from the last save opportunity...Balfour got 3 outs..."- Nico
by stranahanahan on Dec 22, 2011 5:08 PM EST up reply actions
I wouldn't say rarely happens....
happens more than with any other guy in baseball. No one has walked more batters of the last 2 seasons than this guy.
by Jordven Strasermann on Dec 23, 2011 10:11 AM EST up reply actions
Y'all still have "The Voice of God" In Oakland?
I liked your house. Has characters – character too. Our house is good, but the announcer is some sh*t-sounding reject from UFC. Sucks long and hard.
"I can go to my left or right, I am amphibious." - Charles Shackelford
Oh, and do you have any questions about the prospects you got?
"I just want to tell you both good luck. We're all counting on you."
-Leslie Nielsen, Airplane
Are Norris' strikeout problems a concern?
Or do you think it’s just a result of having such a good eye for walks?
"Minutes from the last save opportunity...Balfour got 3 outs..."- Nico
by stranahanahan on Dec 22, 2011 4:45 PM EST up reply actions
He'll never be a middle-of-the order guy.
But he’s got such a good eye. He just errs on the side of “not-swing”
"I just want to tell you both good luck. We're all counting on you."
-Leslie Nielsen, Airplane
That is a question that is up for debate
He has a great eye for the zone.
Supposedly he figured out that he needed to swing again in the AFL
What's his fastball top out at
And what’s his repertoire consist of.
"Minutes from the last save opportunity...Balfour got 3 outs..."- Nico
by stranahanahan on Dec 22, 2011 5:09 PM EST up reply actions
89-90 on a REALLY good day
Avg. 87-88. Fastball, Cutter, Curveball, Changeup.
"I just want to tell you both good luck. We're all counting on you."
-Leslie Nielsen, Airplane
+1
He challenges hitters with location. Has a really nice repitoire that he can throw up or down, inside or outside in (or near) the zone. He’ll make Suzuki work, but if Kurt can frame a pitch, he’ll get you outs.
"Things are going great, and they're only gettin' better..." Timbuk3
Junk-balling lefty.
Worked out alright for a guy named Moyer. Millone won’t be the steal here, but should be a solid #4 or #5 guy and that’s the worst part of the deal for you. He’s gravy on top of the biscuits and chicken the other 3 guys represent.
by Jordven Strasermann on Dec 23, 2011 10:14 AM EST up reply actions
Control
not a power man. I like Milone because he had amazing control and that’s usually the hard part of it. I think that scouts are obsessed with power arms these days.
Ian Desmond is my hero!
That's what we're hoping
"Minutes from the last save opportunity...Balfour got 3 outs..."- Nico
by stranahanahan on Dec 22, 2011 5:09 PM EST up reply actions
He's a soft-tossing lefty; no speed, but his curveball is ridiculous and his 89-91 fastball is impossible to read.
"I just want to tell you both good luck. We're all counting on you."
-Leslie Nielsen, Airplane
Scouts are stupid. Milone can hack it.
He never walks.
Scouts will never believe the numbers on a guy who tops out at 87
by dcsportsfanatic on Dec 22, 2011 4:51 PM EST up reply actions
That's because scouts don't play darts
And Milone as a Pitcher on the mound is a dart-shooter at the line. He doesn’t throw hard, but keeps his pace, hits spots, and moves it around the board like a good 301-401 shooter does.
"Things are going great, and they're only gettin' better..." Timbuk3
I disklike the deal as much as the next guy..
but let’s not go overboard. On the bright side, we just acquired who would have been the top free agent pitcher on the market. Add that to stras and jzimm and we should be contenders this year. We were already pumped for this season, and while it hurts to give up the guys we did, this is only gonna add to our excitement come opening day. Might as well go all in on Prince now and really do something next year
by dcsportsfanatic on Dec 22, 2011 4:39 PM EST reply actions
you think prince is a good move? wouldn’t a legit cf make more sense?
by mechanicsville on Dec 22, 2011 7:50 PM EST via Android app up reply actions
Prince is available for money.
Legit CFs are only available for prospects and the team just gave up a bunch of those.
by jimmylauderdale on Dec 22, 2011 8:48 PM EST up reply actions
I think the price was steep, but we just got a very good young, proven pitcher who is entering his prime.
Millone is not a major leaguer and Norris was redundant. Cole is years away. Peacock stings but he likely wasnt on the roster this year anyway. Our pitching depth this year will be Det and Gorzellany, which it probably would have been anyway. This is the kind of move a team makes that thinks it can compete now. We have Purke, Meyer, Ray, and Solis down on the farm plus four good to great pitchers at the major league level under 28.
I think this could be an instance of the classic overvaluing our kids versus getting excited about a proven pitcher.
"I was a victim of a series of accidents. As are we all."
---Malachi Constant
by The Herndon Kid on Dec 22, 2011 4:44 PM EST via mobile reply actions 5 recs
I rec'd
Natstown whined for 6 years about wanting a contender…well…it’s on the way.
Ian Desmond is my hero!
Thanks.
This is why you build a surplus of minor league talent. Some helps the club by panning out and some helps by getting traded. I am amazed that people aren’t looking at our rotation and drooling right now. This doesn’t destroy our payroll like Darvish would, and Gio has actually been successful in the majors.
"I was a victim of a series of accidents. As are we all."
---Malachi Constant
by The Herndon Kid on Dec 22, 2011 4:51 PM EST via iPhone app up reply actions 1 recs
With Howard out injured
I think we’re a real chance next year. At some point you have to trade in the chips and have a go. Its a risk – but Rizzo wants to be a winner and at the moment – I cant fault him for that. All of the guys we have given up may never amount to anything.
Ian Desmond is my hero!
+1
So much doom and gloom here. You hold out for your prospects if you believe your major leaguers are not cutting it at the moment, and in principle are just waiting for the prospects to develop and get to the highest level and get stuff done.
Leverage your assets that would not likely get used for a couple of years anyway (or possibly not at all, depending on the development process) for something that can augment what you have established now.
As far as I know the rotation the Nats have now is not below average by any stretch of the imagination, and this transaction makes them better.
I don't have a very high opinion of southern California, in sports or in general
by short_shifter on Dec 22, 2011 4:50 PM EST up reply actions
So he peaked at 26? it seems more likely that he, like most professional athletes, is hitting his prime in his mid to late 20's.
"I was a victim of a series of accidents. As are we all."
---Malachi Constant
by The Herndon Kid on Dec 22, 2011 5:01 PM EST via iPhone app up reply actions
The only issue is that he improved too fast in 2011
Odds are that he’s still improving, but won’t be any BETTER in 2012, because he both improved AND overperformed last year.
"I just want to tell you both good luck. We're all counting on you."
-Leslie Nielsen, Airplane
No, his ERA was inflated
He plays in a park that suppresses offense and benefitted from a bit of luck and some good fielding. He’s likely a 3.5-7 ERA pitcher for tha Nats. Pretty good, but no ace.
As the A's fans have said, wrong.
He primarily gives up GBs, not FBs.
"I just want to tell you both good luck. We're all counting on you."
-Leslie Nielsen, Airplane
No, he's pitcher version of Vernon Wells.
His road/home splits tell me that his ERA will be slightly better than John Lannan’s this year.
Me? Sure I'll make a small wager of some sort.
"I was a victim of a series of accidents. As are we all."
---Malachi Constant
by The Herndon Kid on Dec 22, 2011 5:30 PM EST via iPhone app up reply actions
A's fan here. Not a betting man but take the under. Gio's value is climbing!
Bring back the Pac-10!!!
Ax me, a good deal is one that benefits both parties
…and this was a good deal.
"I can go to my left or right, I am amphibious." - Charles Shackelford
I agree with this
This deal smacks of “phase II/III” to me – the Nats moving into position to make a real run. They did pay, but they paid in potential, not production.
That undersells what we gave up
which was a fair chunk of change, but we did get a young, proven LHSP who can be a #2-3SP over the next four years in return. The Nationals SP depth took a hit as a result of the trade, with JZimm-GG-Strasburg-Lannan-Wang as the likely top five, with Detwiler / Gorzelanny / Stammen / Maya / Purke currently in reserve.
"Things are going great, and they're only gettin' better..." Timbuk3
Walks.
My only problem with that is what he’s “proven” to do – and that’s walk way too may people. Going to be super frustrating if he doesn’t figure that out. It’s not like those last 2 yrs were flukes. In his 6 minor league seasons he averaged 4.1 bb/9.
And for Mezza below. I do want a contender. Not so sure this makes us one. I really hope it does, I’m just not sure. Lineup isn’t there yet. Still need another legitimate middle of the order bat (Prince would do) to team with Harper. We just don’t have enough pop. Morse could easily be a flash in the pan and if he is that means you’ve got a high 20 HR guy in Zimm and Harper – that’’s not enough. Also need a leadoff hitter.
My guess is we don’t get Prince or the leadoff hitter – as was mentioned above we just gave up all the pieces that could have brought us one. While it’s not outrageous to think we could make the playoffs in this +1 water-down playoff system – I think it’s still highly unlikely until we get the pop and top of the order OBP we’re missing.
by Jordven Strasermann on Dec 23, 2011 10:24 AM EST up reply actions
Crissake, Jordven quit wringing yer hands
…and don’t you worry none ‘bout Gio’s walks. We got us the best damn pitching coach in baseball. Everybody said Henry Rodruquez’d be good if he only had control. Well? The Cat got holt of him, and now we got us a 101mph closer in our ’pen who will be truly formidable in 2012.
PS – And dig this: In 2012, Mike Morse will hit more homers than Fielder. Just. You. Wait.
"I can go to my left or right, I am amphibious." - Charles Shackelford
This move took us from one of the best farm systems in baseball
to one of the worst once Rendon and Harper are called up. horrible
MOAR SEVERINO!
Yet one of the better teams in the NL East
At some point I guess you have to go for it. Looks like next year is the step.
Ian Desmond is my hero!
Next year isn't the step though.
Won’t see Harper until mid-season at best. Probably won’t see Rendon at all. Stras and Wang are both on innings limits. Next year is over before it starts. You hope to see some things that give you promise for 2013, but next season isn’t “THE YEAR”.
by Jordven Strasermann on Dec 23, 2011 10:25 AM EST up reply actions
Once we call up Rendon and Harper...
That’s ridiculous. Of course your minor league system is going to get worse when they come to the majors. But that’s kind of the point isn’t it. If Harper and Rendon do what they should, we’d all be thrilled. And the chances are that none of the players we gave up for Gio will be anywhere near as good as Gio. He’s cheap, he’s proven consistent the last two years (3.2 ERA or lower the last two years), and we now have one of the best staffs in the game.
+1; Exactly
Whether the parent club calls players up or trades them, the farm system is in constant flux. The loss of players is built into the system, and the Nationals are finally back to a place where making this kind of prospect investment hurts, but doesn’t cripple the franchise in the long run.
"Things are going great, and they're only gettin' better..." Timbuk3
Yeah - one of the reasons that the Marlins' system is down right now
Is that Josh Johnson and Mike Stanton are in Miami. They’re not sending them back.
Cole and Peacock will probably both be as good as Gio.
This guys is playing with fire with those walks. He keeps putting guy on at that clip and that 3.2 can become 4.5 in a hurry.
by Jordven Strasermann on Dec 23, 2011 10:26 AM EST up reply actions
Huge haul, but if he’s not a total bust we’re set at 1-2-3 for the next 4 years so I guess that’s ok?
Really hope Purke turns into something now, though.
Oh No
Just when the Nats’ future was at its brightest, we give up everything for one pitcher. I will miss Brad Peacock the most (I was at his debut) and Millone and Cole seemed like great talents too. Won’t miss Norris much, but we could have done better with that group of talent than a pitcher whose stats were as largely benefited by his home park as Gonzalez’s were.
Don't overrate prospects.
"I just want to tell you both good luck. We're all counting on you."
-Leslie Nielsen, Airplane
I wil bet you $100 that one of Cole, Peacock, and Milone turn out to be just as good as Gio
MOAR SEVERINO!
by jeff550 on Dec 22, 2011 4:55 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I don't disagree.
But if we add the caveat “in 2012 in the Majors” to that, do you still make that bet? How about 2013?
If we get TWO years of this performance level out of Gio before any of these guys reach that level, I’m satisfied.
"I just want to tell you both good luck. We're all counting on you."
-Leslie Nielsen, Airplane
this is the heat of the moment
But you and me…lets look at this at the end of the season and work out if this is a winner or loser. Because right now….I think it could be good either way.
Ian Desmond is my hero!
Every single time
And I mean every single time the Nationals have gone after a player, they get barbequed for not paying market rate. So they ante up, and they get barbequed for paying. Man, MLB GM is a thankless job!
Well, you can make some of the people happy all of the time or all of the people happy some of the time, but you cannot make all of the people happy all of the time.
I have defended Rizzo for his decisions not to bid on Darvish and Wilson. I have defended the choice to not sign Buerhle for 4 years, even though I really wanted Buerhle. In my opinion, the Nationals gave up to much MLB-ready talent. Generally speaking you give up more in prospective talent, because you aren’t sure how players were going to develop. But Norris, Peacock, and Milone were far enough along that we should have a good idea of what they are going to be like.
Maybe so – but at this stage it might also be when they turn out to be as good. Nats are getting ready to win now/next year. That might not be the case with these guys which means they are ploughing away in AAA (hey, that rhymes).
Ian Desmond is my hero!
by Mezza on Dec 22, 2011 4:57 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I dont see win now unless we get a bat
we wont be much better becuase of this trade unless we get some O
MOAR SEVERINO!
Fielder isnt done
Somehow the delay with Fielder seems to indicate that Rizzo now might go all in on Prince. If that happens then we’re going to be right there in October. Of course, injuries might knock that….but its not that far off.
Ian Desmond is my hero!
I think more likely is that once Prince and Cespedes sign, wherever they sign
We throw whatever money’s left at Zim.
"I just want to tell you both good luck. We're all counting on you."
-Leslie Nielsen, Airplane
If we sign Fielder and Oswalt
and than trade Lannan for prospect I will like this trade a lot more. Also resign Zim
MOAR SEVERINO!
I reckon we're out on Oswalt now
But could be in on Fielder and Cespedes…which would be an interesting team. I think the Phillies could be in trouble.
Ian Desmond is my hero!
I see no reason not to sign Oswalt
its a 1 year deal, which means even if he sucks he wont hurt us long term. Imagine this
Stras
Zimm
Gio
Oswalt
Wang
MOAR SEVERINO!
Is there a time limit & set criteria to your bet?
Just asking before you really put your $ out there.
"Things are going great, and they're only gettin' better..." Timbuk3
Hadent though about that
figured no one would take the bet. I still have this out there, even though you all have me not hating the trade now. Yes we gave up a lot of tallent, but we have our 1-2-3 for the next 4 years, with Purke, Meyer, Solis, etc that can fill in the 4 and 5 spots. Trading from a position of depth to help the big team. My first reaction where defantly knee jerk reactions
MOAR SEVERINO!
I think people are too in love with prospects..
The majority of them do not work out. I think Peacock is the only real guy that almost certainly has some future in the show. The other guys are flawed (a high 80’s fastball and a strikeout heavy catcher) or too young to tell (Cole). Gio Gonzalez is a star. What is everyone freaking out about. I honestly don’t get it. You have to give up a lot to get a 26 year-old star like Gio.
Waaay too much for ONE player.
Ugh. Time to get Fielder since we’re going all in by giving up all our prized prospects. I’ll miss you, Peacock. ;( But our 1-2-3 will be sick.
The two best prospects are Harper and Rendon
I think this was steep but a move that big boy teams make.
"I was a victim of a series of accidents. As are we all."
---Malachi Constant
by The Herndon Kid on Dec 22, 2011 4:55 PM EST via iPhone app up reply actions
Grover! Are you out there...
Congrats! You were right and I was wrong. Great haul for the A’s I hope they all stay healthy and help your team.
No cap G in grover. :-)
Bring back the Pac-10!!!
Guys.. I think some people need to calm down
Nationals now have a core at the major league level of Stras, Zimm, Gio, Clippard, Storen, Ramos, Espinosa, and Zimmerman to go along with a farm that has Harper, Rendon, Goodwin, Meyer, Purke, Hood, and Taylor
Prospects are what they are, prospects, their is no guarantee that Cole and Peacock will be top of the rotation pitchers, or that Norris and Milone will work out.. The Nationals made a deal that now puts them in a position to compete for at least the wild card and even more depending on what happens with Fielder and Cespedes
by LUW on Dec 22, 2011 4:53 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
" Harper, Rendon, Goodwin, Meyer, Purke, Hood, and Taylor"
The cupboard not completely empty. And the way we’ve rocked the drafts the last couple years at least we know we have an eye for talent. We won’t be able to spend as much but I trust our scouts
Whats the frequency, Kenneth?
Dont like giving up Cole.
As will win a lot of games in 2013-2015 with these guys.
Mon pauvre vieux, les empires s'écroulent, les républiques s'effondrent et les imbéciles demeurent.
by Doghouse on Dec 22, 2011 4:56 PM EST via mobile reply actions
Broken sarcasm meter
been reading the MLB.com comments to much. thoes people want us to be Yankees east.
MOAR SEVERINO!
+1
He’s the one I said “WHA?” when I heard it on the way home from work. The Nats gave up (according to Sickels) their third-, fourth-, sixth-, and ninth-rated prospects. I was on the fence when it was Peacock-Milone-Norris-Taylor/Perez; I think substituting Cole for the OF was an overpay. Sickels thinks it’s a fair deal; Law considers it a win for Oakland.
Let’s just hope the Ollie Perez comps were due to some really good weed…
Brain: "Pinky, are you pondering what i'm pondering?"
Pinky: "Yes, ... wait, ... no, ... never mind"
I'm shocked we could acquire Gio without giving up a bonafide top prospect
We got a young superstar pitcher just entering his prime without giving up any prospects in BA’s top 25. That’s certainly a win. Oakland could have gotten more.
Make no mistake, Cole is a top prospect
He may well crack the top 25 this summer.
There are still a lot of good prospects
Harper, Rendon, Purke, Meyer, Solis, Goodwin, Taylor, and Hood to name a few. Hopefully, others will emerge like Demny, Wirkin Estevez, and Turnbull. There are some farther down that are interesting like Jean Carlos Valdez and Raudy Read.
I don’t like what the Nats gave up, but they can definitely afford to overpay. Don’t forget there is another draft in June, and lots of good, young Cuban players about to hit the market. The Nats have the best amateur scouts in baseball.
Finally, major league roster > Top farm system.
Don't forget Rafael Martin!
"I just want to tell you both good luck. We're all counting on you."
-Leslie Nielsen, Airplane
This deal has to be followed-up with Prince signing.
If Rizzo is going to go for it like this, he has to complete the job. That means signing Fielder and not worrying about what to do with LaRoche.
by jimmylauderdale on Dec 22, 2011 5:00 PM EST reply actions
Well, I LIKE IT
What do you know, I like something for once and I"m alone!
I mean, how many back of the rotation prospects do we need? Sure, one might blossom, but really so what if they are “top 10” in our system… so few ever really make a prospect even the ones ranked that high. He has enough stuff to balance out his control issues. He is cheap. He is a legit 3. And he didn’t take A level prospects or a top MLB player in return.
I don’t get people who were okay with Jordan Zimmernann and others for Greinke are mad about this… ZImm is a top player, they are pretty good prospects. Major difference.
by William.Hatheway on Dec 22, 2011 5:02 PM EST reply actions
I will hate this less if we sign Oswalt and Fielder
we can use Lannan to restock to farm, and than we will be not only a WC(wild card) contender, but we will have a legit shot at beating out the Phillies
MOAR SEVERINO!
That's just frustration & anger coming through
Buying both Oswalt & Fielder at this point means you’re dumping Detwiler, Lannan, LaRoche, Marrero, Moore, and possibly Morse in an overreaction to ONE move. What would gut the franchise / Orginization more? Have a decaf, walk away from the keyboard, and think about it.
"Things are going great, and they're only gettin' better..." Timbuk3
The mistake there was that it was J-Zim and Espinosa for Greinke.
Too much. This is just prospects.
"I just want to tell you both good luck. We're all counting on you."
-Leslie Nielsen, Airplane
They weren't back of the rotation prospects they were mid-rotation prospects and a top flight bat.
In exchange we got a number 3 pitcher whose ERA is going to grow like Kudzu in the summer.
Norris the "top flight" bat?
If so, so you mean a wRC of 129 at just double A which took five years in the minors to get to is top flight? And yes, the pitchers might get mid-rotation, but they project to be 4 or 5, which we have TONS of, and a true 3 is really hard to acquire, groom, or sign.
by William.Hatheway on Dec 22, 2011 5:12 PM EST up reply actions
Why would his ERA bloom
Ok, so mid 3s and not low 3s, but he is a high GB% guy with swing-and-miss stuff that suggests that he shouldn’t regress all that much.
by William.Hatheway on Dec 22, 2011 5:15 PM EST up reply actions
Top flight bat...
That seems optimistic. If he was a top flight bat, then why was he the third of fourth best catcher in our organization? I would bet good money that Norris never becomes a top half of the league hitting catcher, much less a “top flight bat.” Milone was his 44 mph whiffle ball is not a top of the rotation prospect. Peacock is a very good but mostly unproven prospect.
Wasn't ok with that trade either.
Greinke is mental. Really hope we don’t go there in FA next year.
by Jordven Strasermann on Dec 23, 2011 10:31 AM EST up reply actions
That Reds/Padres trade set the market and hurt the Nats here. They gave up too much,
Why not us? Why not now?
Good point
Don’t know that the Reds gave up too much, but they definately set the market on pitching trades this off-season.
"Things are going great, and they're only gettin' better..." Timbuk3
You know who won this trade?
Yunesky Maya, you’re new spot starter.
(You mean Tom Gorzelanny)
"I just want to tell you both good luck. We're all counting on you."
-Leslie Nielsen, Airplane
We have depth in the pen
Severino, Stammen, Zinicola, Wilkie, Mandel, Martin, random MilB FA guys
MOAR SEVERINO!
Detweiler replaces Gorzo in pen
Spot starts go to Det, Gorzo gets Det’s job when Det starts.
"I just want to tell you both good luck. We're all counting on you."
-Leslie Nielsen, Airplane
I think we should trade Det
instead of putting him somewhere where he isnt really an upgrade over what we had
MOAR SEVERINO!
Mike...
Why didn’t ya just give ’em the whole farm system plus next years draft picks? S>>>T>>>U>>>P>>>I>>>D!!!!!!!!!!
That's apparently what Heyman thought he should have done...
In Heyman’s mind:
Mike Rizzo (hat in hand, kneeling before Beane) – Billy, we’d like to talk about Gio Gonzalez in a possible trade.
Billy Beane (sitting on a spray-painted gold chair) – Well Mr. Rizzo, what do you offer me in trade for such a highly valued player?
MR – We’re willing to restock your entire ML franchise if need be, top to bottom. I’m under pressure from the fans & the press in DC to do something NOW.
BB – Don’t be ridiculous; You’re sounding like a sportswriter. All I require is four of your top-ten prospects, much like my friend Josh got from the Reds for his pitcher Latos.
MR – How about Peacock, Norris, Desmond, and Bernadina?
BB – Peacock & Norris, yes. The other two are aging & can’t be ‘flipped’ for anything. You’ll have to do better than that, or I’ll answer this call from Boston.
MR – OK; Peacock, Norris, Hood, and… Cole (Kimball).
BB – The first two we’re agreed on as good, but I can still buy OF’s. Which ‘Cole’ are we talking about?
MR – Kimball?
BB – NO; He’s broken. Give me AJ, and we’re getting close.
MR – (damn) OK; The first two, plus AJ Cole. What more do you ask?
BB – Another pitcher, perhaps a high-level SP?
MR – That’s an awful lot; Toss in a pitcher in return and I could maybe offer… Milone?
BB – Done! I get Peacock, Milone, AJ Cole, and Norris; You get Gio Gonzalez and… let’s see… Oh, how about one of my off-target draft picks from a few years ago?
MR – Done.
"Things are going great, and they're only gettin' better..." Timbuk3
by BinM on Dec 22, 2011 9:38 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Rec'd. How you bugged their phones we can discuss privately...
hehehehh….
Vivian Jaffe: "Have you ever transcended space and time?"
Albert Markovski: "Yes. No. Uh, time, not space... No, I don't know what you're talking about."
by Patrick Reddington on Dec 22, 2011 9:43 PM EST up reply actions
FWIW
Heyman’s actual reaction to the trade is that the Nats did good.
As someone who makes a lot of mistakes...
And is constantly finding more each time I reread a post, that article is so full of misspellings it hurts my eyes.
Vivian Jaffe: "Have you ever transcended space and time?"
Albert Markovski: "Yes. No. Uh, time, not space... No, I don't know what you're talking about."
by Patrick Reddington on Dec 22, 2011 10:25 PM EST up reply actions
Content, Patrick! Content!
Prroofredding is ovurrated.
I was going to mispell misspellings for fun...
Vivian Jaffe: "Have you ever transcended space and time?"
Albert Markovski: "Yes. No. Uh, time, not space... No, I don't know what you're talking about."
by Patrick Reddington on Dec 22, 2011 10:54 PM EST up reply actions
"One supon a time..."
Yes, that’s a quote. You can’t make this stuff up. Dare you to try.
"I can go to my left or right, I am amphibious." - Charles Shackelford
What if we can somehow trade Det or Lannan for a CF leadoff guy
and than we sign Fielder, and Oswalt. Your team could look like this
CF-Julio Borbon(or similar)
RF Jayson Werth
LF Mike Morse
1B Prince Fielder
2B Danny Espinosa
3B Ryan Zimmerman
SS Ian Desmond
C Wilson Ramos
SP Stras
SP Jzimm
SP Gio
SP Oswalt/lannan/det
SP Wang
bullpen would be the same as what has been talked about. Only problem is where to put Harper
MOAR SEVERINO!
I made an account here just so I could comment on this awful trade
Come on Rizzo. You already made an overstatement last year with Werth, and look how good that’s that’s turned out. Learn from your mistakes! Don’t give up 4 of the Nationals’ top 10 prospects for a pitcher who’s had one good season!
Too much for a non-ace starter
Gio’s FIP and xFIP put him somewhat above average. If he fixes his control issues you have an ace, but that’s a big “if.” Kind of like the prospects the Nats gave up.
Sure, prospects bust. But when you counterbalance that with the volatility of major league pitchers, there’s a lot less difference than it might seem. And the Nationals’ eggs are all in one basket on this one. If Gio collapses the Nats lose, but if any one of the four prospects reaches his potential, the A’s break even, at least.
The one big gain is that the Nationals can expect 3-4 WAR this season that they would not get from the prospects. Hope they don’t skimp on payroll this season, because that’s an expensive handful of wins. The team is apparently going to “go for it.”
Gio is a valuable asset, but I think the Nats are going to regret how much they gave up by the end of 2013. Heck if Peacock gets 10-15 starts this season the Nats may regret it sooner.
by short on Dec 22, 2011 5:11 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
rec'd
I wouldn’t be suprised if Peacock and Milone combine for more WAR than GIO this year alone.
I would.
Neither of them is ready to start the season in the majors.
"I just want to tell you both good luck. We're all counting on you."
-Leslie Nielsen, Airplane
Peacock is
He pitched 158 innigs last year and was dominating AA. I think he starts in AAA and gets a mid-season callup. The A’s are nowhere near contention so they might keep him down, but on a different team he could get ten starts.
Perhaps you haven't seen the Bill James projections for Milone?
Milone dominated AAA. He was as ready as ever to start in the MLB.
That was a very poor projection
Not sure how Bill James thinks Milone will K 8.31 per 9 when during his september call-up he was barely above 5 K/9.
Oh, man
I figured he was further out. Yeah, this is looking very bad. The difference in production between those two and Gio in 2012 alone might be trivial.
Let’s hope Gio figures out how to cut down on the walks. If he becomes a real ace this deal will look a lot better.
Millone is not a major-league pitcher. I am happy he was turned into something useful.
"I was a victim of a series of accidents. As are we all."
---Malachi Constant
by The Herndon Kid on Dec 22, 2011 5:45 PM EST via iPhone app up reply actions
Another A's fan chiming in
I think you guys will really love Gio’s curve.
BEER IS GOOD. BEER IS GOOD. BEER IS GOOD, and stuff.
Another ver minor problem with this trade
is the fact that we dont have enough starters for AAA next year. Jeff Supan to syracuse anyone?
MOAR SEVERINO!
Right now Syracuse has 2 starters
Maya and Arnesen. That needs to be fixed so we dont have to even worry about seing the likes of Tanner Roark in the majors next year
MOAR SEVERINO!
Wow..
And if our triple-A team has another poor year, I swear to God I will never follow minor league baseball again lol.
You do realize that this means Arnesen could be starting games for Washington is injuries happen
MOAR SEVERINO!
Seriously blow to MLB-ready depth for sure...
Vivian Jaffe: "Have you ever transcended space and time?"
Albert Markovski: "Yes. No. Uh, time, not space... No, I don't know what you're talking about."
by Patrick Reddington on Dec 22, 2011 7:41 PM EST up reply actions
Yes, but to what ends?
The MLB club gains immediate benefits with Gio – It does thin the standing depth chart from Detwiler / Peacock / Milone / Gorzelanny / Stammen / Maya (11) down to nine by removing Peacock & Milone, and weakens Strasburg’s possible replacement (Peacock down to “other”) at this point. It’s still an immediate upgrade, imo.
"Things are going great, and they're only gettin' better..." Timbuk3
Don't disagree...
Just worry that Stras/Wang have setback, Detwiler doesn’t continue to throw like he was, etc. depth could be an issue, but to be clear I like the deal. Hurts to see Cole go though…
Vivian Jaffe: "Have you ever transcended space and time?"
Albert Markovski: "Yes. No. Uh, time, not space... No, I don't know what you're talking about."
by Patrick Reddington on Dec 22, 2011 9:54 PM EST up reply actions
No
Still too much depth… we have the following SP’s :
Strasburg
Zimmerman
Geo (welcome aboard)
Lannan
Wang
Detwiler
Stammen
Gorzelanny
Maya ( if needed )
So we’re pretty deep still at the ML level
In AAA:
JD Martin (FA- if he signs again he’s depth)
So Arnesen has some development time
TERRIBLE DEAL
Norris makes sense considering the depth at catcher. But 3 pitchers? Two of whom WILL be major league ready in a year if not less? For a number 3 starter? First Jayson Werth, now this…
Cole wont be ready in a year
figure this is what his fastest path to the majors will be
2012-A+
2013-AA/AAA
2014-MLB
MOAR SEVERINO!
Oh that's what this means
From a Mariners fan Lookout Landing blog’s Twitter:
Logan Morrison decided, hey, I’d like it if people stopped getting shit done for a little while
Just my luck this will turn out to be false
and the Gio trade will totally be true. Sad face.
BTW – I don’t think the Nats will spend the money for Prince. An AL team will offer more years than any sane NL team. Oh, wait.
Send him to Triple-A as punishment again.
Vivian Jaffe: "Have you ever transcended space and time?"
Albert Markovski: "Yes. No. Uh, time, not space... No, I don't know what you're talking about."
by Patrick Reddington on Dec 22, 2011 5:31 PM EST up reply actions
No, just enjoys jerking ppl around.
"I just want to tell you both good luck. We're all counting on you."
-Leslie Nielsen, Airplane
Wow
just wow. Guess y’all are trying to win now. Maybe a big trade for a CF or a Cepedes signing is in the cards. I do think the Nats will be able to make some noise (read a playoff berth) in the next few years.
by McCutchenIsTheTruth on Dec 22, 2011 5:32 PM EST reply actions
Bowden on MLB Network Radio says Nats should go get Prince...
Harper says same on the Twitter: @BHarper3407: “Now all we need to do is get Prince!hah”
Vivian Jaffe: "Have you ever transcended space and time?"
Albert Markovski: "Yes. No. Uh, time, not space... No, I don't know what you're talking about."
by Patrick Reddington on Dec 22, 2011 5:34 PM EST reply actions
Ummm...
#signFielder
Rob
--"Well my days of not taking you seriously are certainly coming to a middle." -- Mal Reynolds
The fact that Bowden is advocating it is making me reassess signing Fielder
(adds for Doghouse) BOWDEN!!!!!
You know, that makes me feel better.
Figure this guy as the price for Norris, and the other three are a fine price for Gio IMO.
"I just want to tell you both good luck. We're all counting on you."
-Leslie Nielsen, Airplane
On Getting Gio
Woo Hoo the Nats finally pulled the trigger and really got someone good…I applaud their tenacity in landing Gio…let’s hope it continues…
So be it
If this is whats given up, screw the future, let go for it now. Sign Prince, cut LaRoche or keep him on the bench, and make a run for it. Rizzo can’t preach building for the future after a trade like this. Its cool that we have prospects left over, but they’re all in the lower levels apart from Bryce (and Maybe rendon). Sign Prince, go into the season with Stras, JZimm and Gio as the 1,2,3 and make a run for the playoffs. God knows the team owes us that
Any word on Rendon?
How is his health? He was having some issues with throwing and hitting last season.
heck yaa
wohoo..this move is great for the Nats!!! just wait till you see him pitch! all we need is Prince and we are set for a long time to compete with any team in the MLB
by Sportzxpert on Dec 22, 2011 5:46 PM EST via Android app reply actions
Bill Ladson: Reliever Cole Kimball was supposed to be part of the Gio Gonzalez trade. Instead, A.J. Cole was dealt.
I think we’ve gotten to the point where anything Ladson says cannot be trusted. Obviously we didn’t swap in AJ Cole for Kimball. Does Ladson know anything about baseball?
by dcsportsfanatic on Dec 22, 2011 5:58 PM EST reply actions
Well Kimball can help the club this year...
But I agree that it is far fetched that the Nats would have made that switch unless they know Cole has a PED suspension coming or something.
"I was a victim of a series of accidents. As are we all."
---Malachi Constant
by The Herndon Kid on Dec 22, 2011 6:04 PM EST via iPhone app up reply actions
Consider the source
The more I read, the less impressed I am with Ladsen
The one real prospect we gave up was Cole
Norris was blocked by Ramos, and Peacock and Milone were back-of-the-rotation guys. I wish we could have given up less, but overall I really like this trade.
Part of Pech's Posse since 2007.
by OleksiyPecherovsHomeboy on Dec 22, 2011 6:12 PM EST reply actions
This is a great trade
Not “great” in the sense that we hosed the A’s, got exceptional value or even “won” the trade by getting the better end of the deal, but you don’t have to “win” a trade for it to be great. If your only goal is to “win” every trade you’ll probably never end up pulling the trigger on a deal.
We got an incredibly good, high-K pitcher who has gone over 200 IP with a low ERA the past two years. Yes, yes, his BB/9 blows, but so what? He’s still a guy who gets it done. His ERA may even drop lower in the NL.
I LOVE Peacock. I think that guys gonna be great. But I don’t KNOW he’s gonna be great – Gio already is pretty good/great. Norris has promise but we are stacked at C, he’s of little use. Milone and Cole? Who knows. They’ve both shown promise, but would you really bet your life on one of them ever being a 15 game winner?
Strasburg, Zimmerman, Gio, Wang, Lannan. That is a VERY good rotation. Combine that with our bullpen and we’ll have one of the best pitching staffs in the league.
Now I wouldn’t object to signing Oswalt on a 1 yr deal and shipping Lannan either. Seems we could get him for $7-$10 mil which seems more than fair. Oh, and Prince Fielder? (Kuroda and E.Jackson still out there too) Sure, sign the guy.
Brewers fan here with a question...
It seems that with the trade for Gio, Rizzo is in an “all-in” mode. So do you guys think he’s gonna follow that up by signing Fielder?
Go ahead, make my day.
Most hope so,
or at least believe it is the most reasonable follow-up.
by jimmylauderdale on Dec 22, 2011 6:19 PM EST up reply actions
Uh?
I mean, if you compare this trade to what the Reds just did, then maybe. But the Nats just acquired a young lefty that they have control over for the next 3 or 4 years. The major concern was about finding that 3/4 pitcher to slot in behind Strasburg and Zimmnn over the next few years. Was Purke that guy? Peacock? Detwiler? Who would step up into that spot? Do we sign CJ Wilson?
Well they just moved 4 guys with some pretty high cielings for a guarantee #3 SP. Peacock and Milone were basically blocked, Norris was, and Cole would be a rookie in 2014, which we hope is a peak year.
On top of that, we just had one of our best drafts and acquired some premium talent that we hope will be up in what would be presumably before Cole would even had a shot.
You guys. You lollygag the ball around the infield. You lollygag your way down to first. You lollygag in and out of the dugout. You know what that makes you? Larry!
They'd Better
At the moment, the only top prospect that’s close to the Major Leagues is Bryce Harper. Everyone else is 2-3 years away at least. To take advantage of the players you have now (Zimmerman, Morse, Lannan) you have to win sooner rather than later. Right now with Gio, this team could challenge for the Wild Card. I’d say that adding Prince could make the Nats one of the best in the National League
Prince at 1B doesn't help as much as you think
Pushing Morse to LF takes away about a win due to poor defense according to his career OF UZR (actually it’s 1.5 games, but I’m being conservative). More if the player that would have played there is good at defense. Plus this would block Harper unless you play Werth in CF. But then you’re really hurting your defense. Cespedas is a better bet, so long as the hype is in any way justified. He should be cheaper than Prince as well.
Fielder put up 5.5 wins last year. A full season of Morse at 1B could be worth 3-4 WAR. Unless Morse is a fluke (and I think he’s proven that’s not the case) his production is worthy of playing 1B. Basically the Nationals just don’t need a first baseman.
On this team, with great young pitching I’d hate to see the defense in the outfield get short shrift. Good defense = short innings = rested arms.
fielder could bump morse from 1B, laroche will not
morse in the OF either way until laroche is moved
Yeah, well, you know, that's just like, uh, your opinion man
sorry, im apparantly in too much shock to form logic
ment that morse is going to play LF for most of next season whether or not fielder gets signed by the nats
Yeah, well, you know, that's just like, uh, your opinion man
I disagree
All of this happens assuming that cespedes actually lives up to the hype. Considering that he’s never played against actual MLB players, he’s as big a question mark, if not bigger, than darvish. So if rizzo doesn’t go after darvish citing that darvish isn’t worth it, I find it hard to believe that the nats will throw 30-60 million to a player who’s even more unproven. Morse may cost the nationals 1.5 games in left, but the fact that prince adds the extra 5.5 still leaves you with 4 extra wins (which is a conservative number as well). A 3-4-5 of zimmerman-fielder-morse makes this one of the top offenses in the NL. Putting werth in center isn’t the worst idea either, considering that was the probable move anyways once harper made the big leagues. I’d rather see prince in the lineup than an unproven international or a stop gap solution. The defensive benefits might win you a game or two, but the offensive benefits of prince are easily a lot greater considering the age of the core players.
by fballplyr92 on Dec 22, 2011 7:33 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
I don't think anyone goes $30-60 million for Cespedes
Although I’ve heard the Yankees are interested, with the possibility of moving Swisher in the short term. One can dream of the Yankees paying for Cespedes and then trading Gardner to some team looking for a CF ;-)
I agree on Cespedas
You really have to trust your scouting on him. If Crisp is cheap I might go that route, but he’s not a great leadoff guy.
What if we could make one more trade...
Detwiler or Lannan and Bernadina for Gerardo Parra? That would give us a solid stopgap outfielder.
A trade for an OF could slow Harper
Morse – Parra – Werth, with Bernadina & DeRosa on the bench is a solid OF with no room for ‘the Kid’. That’s the downside on this one.
"Things are going great, and they're only gettin' better..." Timbuk3
Sign Prince, extend Zimm
Do those two things and I’m happy. We’ll be set for a good run for several years….plenty of time to replenish the farm before more prospects are needed if all of that talent is locked in at the Major league level.
one player
vs 4. all who would be basically blocked in the Nats system at least this year. Peacock and Milone wouldn’t start enough to be full-time players.
You guys. You lollygag the ball around the infield. You lollygag your way down to first. You lollygag in and out of the dugout. You know what that makes you? Larry!
But it does mean the WAR comparison is a bit hollow, because it’s ignoring 3 unnamed players on the “Gio” side.
What unnamed players?
The Nats get other players?
No (other than the high A pitcher), but if Milone, Peacock, and Norris are contributing wins to the Nats, it’s at the expense of 3 other players on those hypothetical Nats.
You can’t fit 4 guys on one roster in place of 1 on another.
Right
So its the guys starting instead of Milone, Peacock, Norris, and Cole that should be considered. At least somewhat.
You guys. You lollygag the ball around the infield. You lollygag your way down to first. You lollygag in and out of the dugout. You know what that makes you? Larry!
I'm guessing it's a safe assumption that you don't value Gonzalez that much
If you equivocate sending these prospects in a trade for him with throwing them away
I don't have a very high opinion of southern California, in sports or in general
by short_shifter on Dec 22, 2011 7:33 PM EST up reply actions
I think that Gonzalez was overvalued. I don't think other teams were willing to go 4 prospects or even 3 top prospects
I think the real problem is that the gave away Milone. I can’t imagine that he was valued properly here. He is an MLB-ready talent with a bright future. No, he didn’t have velocity, but he didn’t have a problem putting away MLB batters either. If this trade had included Hood or Perez or Taylor instead, then I would be much, much happier with this deal. It would still hurt, and still be a good haul for Gio, but this was too much.
Everybody talks about how prospects might not make it, and that is true, but the chances for Norris, Milone, and Peacock were very high. They weren’t players that were two or three good years away from starting. They could all start this year. They may not, but that will have more to do with service time and the A’s stadium than their skills.
New here....I think i like this
I know we gave up a ton…but sometimes you gotta give something to get something. Just wanted to say hello to everyone..im new here. from dc area..go NATS!
Our 1-2-3 one of the best in all baseball now…and one more bat makes us legit contenders. I am of the camp that we try to get Fielder if we can…and then re-sign Zimm….maybe do that other way around actually..
Might want to lock Zim up before he knows what you're giving to any bat they bring in, heh...
Thanks for joining the conversation.
Vivian Jaffe: "Have you ever transcended space and time?"
Albert Markovski: "Yes. No. Uh, time, not space... No, I don't know what you're talking about."
by Patrick Reddington on Dec 22, 2011 7:07 PM EST up reply actions
Welcome aboard!
One more bat for the lineup …
A proven major leaguer for some question marks
Gio will start the season as the #1 or #2. He is far more proven than Stras or JZim. Nats gave up some “might-bes” for a top of the rotation type young lefty who’s undercrontrol for a number of years. There’s no room for a catcher, Milone is a Lannan clone, Kimball is a 19year old unknown. Peacock will make the majors but you don’t get a player of the quality of Gonzalez (proven, young, lefty, signed) without giving up something. Nats did not giveup anything proven at all, just some maybes.
It wasn't Cole Kimball they gave up
They gave up AJ Cole, a 19-year-old RHP with great stuff and top-of-the-rotation potential. Though your point still stands, being that he’s so young and probably won’t see the majors until later 2014, he’s very much also a maybe compared to Gonzalez.
by Armless Penguin on Dec 22, 2011 7:10 PM EST up reply actions
Milone is not a Lannan clone. Anymore than Maya is Ryan-clone because the are both hard throwing righties.
Milone’s control is much, much better than Lannan’s. Given that they are both control pitchers, it is kind of important. Milone was projected to be a 2.5 WAR starter this year, Lannan has never posted above 1.5 WAR.
Horrible trade in my opinion.
The Nationals gave up a boat load of prospects for Gonzales, although who is young and entering his prime, a steep price. All the prospects in this trade are very good, and if you are giving up 3 of your top 10, wouldn’t you think a hitter would be what you are getting?
trades should hurt
i just hate walks
You guys. You lollygag the ball around the infield. You lollygag your way down to first. You lollygag in and out of the dugout. You know what that makes you? Larry!
lets go back 24 hours
how many nats fans were unwilling to give up just peacock or cole? i remember concern of even giving up both peacock, milone who were conasidered mlb ready rotation pieces for 2012.
Cole was the one that I didn't want included, but as I said to grover...
I understand why the A’s would insist on his inclusion…
Vivian Jaffe: "Have you ever transcended space and time?"
Albert Markovski: "Yes. No. Uh, time, not space... No, I don't know what you're talking about."
by Patrick Reddington on Dec 22, 2011 8:05 PM EST up reply actions
This is almost a better haul than I hoped for
and it figures… the day I’m out in the field all day is when all this goes down!
The monster at the end of this blog.
I didn’t want all 3 included. Really hoped it was only one of Peacock/Cole, but then wanted Milone as a fallback especially as a callup option.
We shall see
A’s do lose the impact of Milone’s bat to the DH
Doesn't work that way
although more than one team wishes it did …
Brain: "Pinky, are you pondering what i'm pondering?"
Pinky: "Yes, ... wait, ... no, ... never mind"
Nats are my favorite team
Not the Syracuse Chiefs or Harrisburg Senators. This trade makes my team better for a long team. So what if it hurts our farm for a few years? We have a contender for this year and years to come. Let’s keep it going – resign Zim and sign Prince. We then have a bunch of great players under 30.
This is a game to be savored, not gulped. There's time to discuss everything between pitches or between innings. ~Bill Veeck
by timnanna on Dec 22, 2011 8:05 PM EST via iPhone app reply actions
You do realize that players for the Nationals come from the minors
and that the best players are almost always home grown
MOAR SEVERINO!
They need major league ready pitchers
They need pitchers in their system to fill as a call up option. They need replacement pitchers. Chien-Ming Wang is a FA next year, John Lannan and Tom Gorzelanny the year after that.
Nats AllStars
I remember a year… wayyy back when the Expos had 5 All Stars during the midSeason classic…. I think they were Alou, Grissom, Cordero, Fletcher & Ken Hill. This season we may have just as many… or more than that (franchise record?):
All Star Potential on the current Roster:
1) Zimmerman
2) Zimmerman
3) Strasburg
4) Geo
5) Morse
6) Ramos
7) Werth (if he returns to his pre2011 numbers)
8) Clippard
9) Storen
That’s scary !!!!
Very happy this happened
Those who think its bad seem to be overvaluing our prospects by a lot or undervaluing Gio by a lot. This is the push for win now, and I whole heartedly expect Fielder to sign with us. Then this team contends NOW. Not 2015 or beyond with prospects, but with proven talent NOW.
I’m just a greedy expos fan still upset about the 1994 strike and now this franchise is nearly to the point of being a real annual contender. Some of the fans need to understand that trading away prospects is how the game goes on and if they flourish great for them but none of the guys that we gave up today will help the A’s win the WS within the next two to three years. 2015 and beyond for the A’s, most definitely but we just cashed in our chips and decided we are going for it!
SIGN FIELDER!!!!
SIGN DOBBS!!!!!
TRADE LANNAN!!!!
Name a number between three and five.
.............
.............
Threeve.
Not a fan of this trade.
The Nats seriously overpaid for this starting pitcher. First off the MILB pitching depth is now seriously depleted. Peacock and Milone both proved they could pitch in the majors last September. AJ Cole and Norris both are sure major leaguers some day as well sparing any unforeseen circumstances. So you have trade 4 major league players for one. Injuries occur in baseball and that depth would have certainly come in handy this year. I personally think that Rizzo hit the panic button on this trade. Somone said it earlier that this is the trade that will define Rizzo as a successful GM or a failure.
The fact is they really need a center fielder and leadoff hitter more than they needed a starter. Now how do you suppose they get this need filled now?
by Everybodys All American on Dec 22, 2011 9:53 PM EST reply actions
Heh
AJ Cole and Norris are both sure major leaguers some day
Cole hasn’t pitched above Low A; as exciting a prospect as he is at Low A, it’s a looong way to The Show from there. A lot of prospects get lost along the way, and even the ones that “make it” often don’t have much impact. Ask the Mets about Pulsipher, Wilson and Isringhausen.
I don't think Milone and Peacock "proved" they could pitch in the majors
They made a couple of turns through the rotation, a small sample size, and held their own. Cole hasn’t pitched above high A ball and he’s got at least two years to go in good health before he delivers on his stuff.
Personally, my initial reaction was negative when I saw that AJ Cole was included. I didn’t feel that a pitcher in the friendly caverns of Oakland who walks a lot of guys should be worth a B+ prospect who has a stud arm by all accounts.
Now, I’m back to In Rizzo We Trust. I wouldn’t have done this deal. But Rizzo gets paid to do this for a living, and I’m going to support the choice of the franchise and believe that the move is a positive one.
Waiting to bang my drum in parades for the Nats and Caps.
by souldrummer on Dec 22, 2011 10:56 PM EST up reply actions
One fallout from this trade
Oakland was at 40-player max at the time of ther trade. They gave up one rostered player (Gio Gonzalez) for three 40-man rostered players (Milone, Norris, & Peacock) at the time of the trade. That means they’ve got to push at least two players into DFA status, unless they make another move to get the roster back to 40 in the next 24 hours.
"Things are going great, and they're only gettin' better..." Timbuk3
Lots of room on the Nats 40 man.
They had several openings before the trade.
He's saying Oakland's 40-man is over
Ours is still way under given that we add one and subtract three with this move.
Waiting to bang my drum in parades for the Nats and Caps.
by souldrummer on Dec 22, 2011 11:02 PM EST up reply actions
????
Waiting to bang my drum in parades for the Nats and Caps.
by souldrummer on Dec 22, 2011 11:03 PM EST up reply actions
Post interrupted!
It was going to say “I haven’t been an O’s fan since 2000 but the names Matt Riley, Adam Loewen and Brian Matusz still have a dreadful ring to them.” (Okay, Matusz might be decent one day). Will Peacock, Milone & Cole be better than those guys? Probably, but possibly not significantly. If Gio flames out and Coles turns into the next Curt Schilling I’l hate this trade. Right now I like it.
by Elvin Unseld on Dec 22, 2011 11:41 PM EST up reply actions
What a bunch of whiners
So many of you guys are such a bunch of whiners. I just watched hot stove on MLB and they were all RAVING about Gio. Best curveball in baseball etc. etc. They were also mentioning the Nats as contenders for the playoffs. When have we ever even heard the Nats and contenders mentioned in the same sentence? The time to go for it is now. It seems no matter what this team does everyone complains. If they don’t do something, people complain. If they do people complain. It’s time to shed the loser mentality of being a Nats fan and expecting to lose each year. Good things are about to happen people. GET EXCITED!
by Brett Gerstein on Dec 22, 2011 11:40 PM EST reply actions
I'm excited
so was the WJLA sports lady.
by Elvin Unseld on Dec 22, 2011 11:42 PM EST up reply actions
It's hard to get excited when....
you give up that much of the future for a pretty average return. I don’t care what they think about his curve ball, go look at the numbers. Career (which includes 6 minor leagues seasons by the way) he’s a 4.1 bb/9 guy. He is living on the edge every time he goes out there. K’s dip at all, more contact – he is suddenly creeping on a 4 era. We gave up that haul for that? Most frustrating thing in all of baseball is pitcher that doesn’t make the hitter swing the bat.
Again, it’s not that we gave up these guys. It’s what we got in return for them. I don’t think we got a good enough pitcher in return.I think Peacock can be every bit as good as him this year. I think Cole will be better than him in a couple of years.
The only reason we’re considered a playoff contender is because one more team makes the playoffs this year. We don’t have the lineup to contend yet and both Stras and Wang will be on innings limits. We’re still a full year away and that’s only if we add another bat with pop and a lead off hitter.
by Jordven Strasermann on Dec 23, 2011 12:28 PM EST reply actions
Do love the enthusiasm though Brett...
really hope you’re right.
by Jordven Strasermann on Dec 23, 2011 12:31 PM EST up reply actions
I think the trade helps a bit this year
Later, things might become more muddled. So, I’m not a huge fan of the move, but I’m not totally distraught either.
I am a fan of your handle though. I think I might change my name to “Stedan Zimmburg”.
Rob
--"Well my days of not taking you seriously are certainly coming to a middle." -- Mal Reynolds
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