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Why Some Washington Nationals Fans And Followers Might Believe The Prince Fielder Chatter...

WASHINGTON, DC - APRIL 17: Prince Fielder #28 of the Milwaukee Brewers (R) walks off the field as Ivan Rodriguez #7 of the Washington Nationals celebrates with pitcher Tyler Clippard #36 after defeating the  Brewers 8-4 during the first game of a doubleheader at Nationals Park on April 17, 2011 in Washington, DC. (Photo by Rob Carr/Getty Images)

Jayson Werth was uniquely suited to a long-term deal in spite of his age (31 at the time) as his agent Scott Boras explained last winter in an MLB Network Radio interview, because he was a rare exception in baseball history as one of only a few players, "... who have rooted themselves in the game as late bloomers. Players who have body types and certainly a physical platform that allows their chronological age to be viewed differently than their physicality as an athlete."

Discussions with the outfielder, who'd eventually sign with Washington taking the baseball world by surprise, actually began weeks before he signed on the eve of the 2010 Winter Meetings, "... just before Thanksgiving when," according to an ESPN/AP report last winter, "Nationals owners Ted Lerner and Mark Lerner met with Werth at Boras' office in Newport Beach, Calif." A few weeks after the meeting, Werth was a Washington National with a 7-year/$126M dollar deal.

Why would Werth sign with the perennial cellar-dwellers from the division he'd played in for the previous four seasons in Philadelphia?

Star-divide

As Werth's agent explained in the press conference announcing the signing at the 2010 Winter Meetings, the outfielder was given assurances about the direction the franchise was headed and liked what he'd heard. Werth, Boras admitted, "... certainly wanted to know that this was a place that was not only going to take every step possible to sign young players in the draft as they've exhibited but also take steps to develop a core system in the minor leagues and also take further steps in advancing the free agent process so that he would be surrounded by quality major league players in addition to those already present in the Nationals' organization."

When Zack Greinke talked about his decision to decline what was reportedly a 5-year/$90M dollar extension offer from the Nationals if he'd accept a trade to the nation's capital's Nats in a March 2011 Washington Post article by Dave Sheinin entitled, "Desire to win now kept Greinke from joining Nationals", the WaPost's Mr. Sheinin explained how the Nationals' owner Ted Lerner and other "high-ranking team officials" held a "clandestine" meeting with Greinke in a hotel in Orlando, Florida during which they made their pitch in an attempt to convince the former Cy-Young Award-winner to pitch in Washington.

The clandestine meetings with players capable of not only changing the perception of the franchise in the marketplace, but turning the organization into a contender. The owners getting directly involved in meeting with players and agents and pitching the organization as a destination. It all came back this week when Washington Post writer, Dave Sheinin, in an article entitled, "Some thoughts on Prince Fielder", examined the perception held by many in baseball that the Nationals will end up signing the 27-year-old free agent slugger this winter, and wrote that, "If the Nationals get into the Fielder sweepstakes, it is unlikely to become public knowledge until the very end."

"Boras’s modus operandi, when it comes to his biggest clients," the WaPost writer explained, "is to negotiate directly with ownership, bypassing the general manager. He’s been doing it that way for years." In selling Prince Fielder during an MLB Network Radio interview last month as another uniquely talented game-changer on and off the field like Werth, who's available at a young age and provides a once-in-a-generation opportunity to add a legit slugger that justifies the sort of investment he's seeking, Boras explained why he appeals to a team's owners as opposed to their general managers:

"I think that these are ownership decisions. There are certainly owners who come out and meet with us and talk to us about their franchise and go through things. We're rather methodical about this. The player wants to hear as much information as he can and certainly Prince wants to make a good decision for he and his family.

"So the idea of it is, it's not the matter of how many teams, it's obvious that there's a lot of teams that when they sign these players it could make a dramatic difference. In Milwaukee, they're drawing three million fans. There's a reason for that. And I think the dynamic of that is something the owners look to and they understand that they can get a player in their system for a long time that is a core. So, it's really something I think that owners have to evaluate as they go through it. Then they instruct their general managers, and a lot of times they like to put other pieces together before they make that decision."

The Washington Post's Mr. Sheinin didn't say that the Nationals had met with Boras to discuss Fielder, but instead suggested reasons why they might be pursuing the big first baseman or at least why the rumors have persisted for so long this winter in spite of public denials on the part of the Nationals themselves. After the trade for Gio Gonzalez, the WaPost writer argued, the Nats still need a bat. Mr. Sheinin says that Washington's a middle-of-the-order bat away. The Nats have said their looking for a leadoff hitter all winter, but they have the money (Mr. Lerner's the wealthiest owner in baseball), will potentially have more soon from their tv deal with MASN and could be a contender now with the addition of Fielder. Nowhere, however, does Mr. Sheinin write that the Nationals and Fielder have talked...

Of course, FOXSports.com's Ken Rosenthal wrote before the Winter Meetings in an article entitled, "Nats show interest in Fielder, Cespedes", that the Nationals', "Talks with Fielder hit a significant roadblock on Monday, one source said, prompting the Nats to revisit Cespedes as an alternative." What was that "roadblock"? Mr. Rosenthal didn't say. It's just one report amidst all the chatter about the Nationals targeting Fielder this winter that says they've actually had discussions. How serious were the conversations? Have they been picked up again as Boras and Fielder look for a deal in a market that appears to involve less teams than anticipated? D.C. GM Mike Rizzo, as he did again this past Friday, continues to insist that Adam LaRoche is expected to be at first base when the 2012 season begins.

But still reports of the Nats' interest in Fielder persist. Why? Because to a lot of people out there it makes a lot of sense. A rotation headed by Stephen Strasburg, Gio Gonzalez and Jordan Zimmermann. A bullpen with Tyler Clippard and Drew Storen. A lineup with Ryan Zimmerman, Jayson Werth, Danny Espinosa, Ian Desmond, Michael Morse, Wilson Ramos, Fielder and eventually the Nats' 2010 no. overall pick? On paper, that team can compete with anyone. If the Nats believe they're one bat away, Fielder's the best available slugger. If they think they're close without that sort of investment, they keep looking for a center fielder. But Prince in the Nats' lineup looks real strong to some out there. And not just Bryce Harper and Gio Gonzalez...

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"I just want to tell you both good luck. We're all counting on you."
-Leslie Nielsen, Airplane

by Jorgath on Dec 27, 2011 5:55 PM EST up reply actions  

What adding Fielder may mean for Zimmerman

Signing Fielder to a 4+ year contract forecloses moving Zimmerman to 1B to protect his injury-prone body. Lombardozi is available to play 3B, while Rendon (who is now blocked from advancement) readies himself for 3B. The Nats could trade Zimmerman for a premier CF like Andrew McCutchen. The Nats have more three-spot hitters available to replace Zimmerman than game-changing cleanup-hitters like Fielder.

by Nats4ever on Dec 27, 2011 5:32 PM EST reply actions  

Zim isnt moving to First

and Lombo, and Rendon wont be forcing Zim from 3rd thank you very much

MOAR SEVERINO!

by jeff550 on Dec 27, 2011 5:34 PM EST up reply actions  

No way in hell Zim is moving to first anytime soon. I also doubt Lombardozzi will ever be a major league starter. The Nats with Fielder become instant playoff contenders, and might be WS favorites going into 2013.

Aim for the head baby Jesus

by Doncosmic on Dec 27, 2011 5:41 PM EST via iPhone app up reply actions  

In the spirit of ignoring the elephant in the room (please excuse the expression)…. I would like to remind you that Ryan Zimmerman is a once in a lifetime 3rd baseman who makes spectacular plays on almost a nightly basis. Please let there be no more of this talk of moving him to a position once played by Adam Dunn

by PerryMason on Dec 27, 2011 5:51 PM EST up reply actions  

Starting in Left Field for your Washington Nationals ...

Ryan Zimmerman!

I don't have a very high opinion of southern California, in sports or in general

by short_shifter on Dec 27, 2011 6:02 PM EST up reply actions  

nope, Morse has LF covered for now...

"...I don't want to go watch American League baseball." Lance Berkman......LBIMH...

by cat daddy3000 on Dec 27, 2011 10:25 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

"the elephant in the room"?

hater hater hater

He just has big bones.

"I can go to my left or right, I am amphibious." - Charles Shackelford

by Whupass on Dec 27, 2011 9:08 PM EST up reply actions  

it had crossed my mind that having 1B open as an absolute emergency backup Plan Z in case Zim ever started throwing too many balls in the stands would not be so bad…

"...I don't want to go watch American League baseball." Lance Berkman......LBIMH...

by cat daddy3000 on Dec 27, 2011 9:46 PM EST up reply actions  

I love Zimm...

but I just want to add to the end of your post…..“when healthy”. Aint that aint too often lately. If you get back the right pieces, as hard as it would be to move him, it might make sense. Especially with Rendon in the wings.

by Jordven Strasermann on Dec 28, 2011 12:55 AM EST up reply actions  

In the worst year of his life, Ryan Zimmerman is elite

Young Rendon is a stage-door johnny, with a long-ass way to go

"I can go to my left or right, I am amphibious." - Charles Shackelford

by Whupass on Dec 28, 2011 1:04 AM EST up reply actions  

You don't have to hate on Rendon in order to praise Zim.

Zimmerman is an elite player who is not going anywhere. Rendon is an elite prospect who, hopefully and very possibly, will have a great career. Be happy that we have both, and know that our infield(with some question marks surrounding 1B) is set for a long time.

Skins rule

by Horcasitas4 on Dec 28, 2011 2:44 AM EST up reply actions  

Good Lord, I got nothing against Rendon

Hell, he’s a promising kid and I like him plenty – but “elite prospect” is an oxymoron. Surely you understand this – if not, then one of two words you do not comprehend.

"I can go to my left or right, I am amphibious." - Charles Shackelford

by Whupass on Dec 28, 2011 3:02 AM EST up reply actions  

Very true,

But guys who absolutely rake at the very highest levels of college ball have a very very good track record in the majors.

Aim for the head baby Jesus

by Doncosmic on Dec 28, 2011 11:16 AM EST up reply actions  

Yeah, college baseball has come a long way

since your humble servant was good enough to play Div I – say no more, right? These days, top college college programs supplant the minors.

"I can go to my left or right, I am amphibious." - Charles Shackelford

by Whupass on Dec 28, 2011 4:00 PM EST up reply actions  

Well Zimm left college,

started at AA and was in the majors by the end of his first season. Rendon was a better college hitter than Zimm, though not as good defensively.

Aim for the head baby Jesus

by Doncosmic on Dec 28, 2011 5:08 PM EST up reply actions  

I conceded your point already

college baseball has come a long way. Back when I was playing college ball, it wasn’t much – and hell, if it was, “pretty good” high-school guys like me wouldn’t ha’ been there, even on partial scholarship. These days, a good program like UVA (Zimm’s), or a top-tier program like Rice (Rendon’s) is easily up there with AA.

"I can go to my left or right, I am amphibious." - Charles Shackelford

by Whupass on Dec 28, 2011 10:20 PM EST up reply actions  

Updated Nats top 50 prospects

. Bryce Harper
2. Anthony Rendon
3. Matt Purke
4. Robbie Ray
5. Alex Meyer
6. Destin Hood
7. Brian Goodwin
8. Sammy Solis
9. Steve Lombardozzi
10. Michael Taylor
11. Tyler Moore
12. Chris Marrero
13. David Freitas
14. Eury Perez
15. Kevin Keyes
16. Wirkin Estevez
17. Jeff Kobernus
18. Danny Rosenbaum
19. Matt Skole
20. Rafael Martin
21. Zach Walters
22. Blake Kelso
23. Rick Hague
24. Jason Martinson
25. Randolph Oduber
26. Pat Lehman
27. Kylin Turnbull
28. Justin Bloxom
29. Sandy Leon
30. Cole Kimball
31. Atahualpa Severino
32. Hector Nelo
33. Josh Smoker
34. Paul Demny
35. Adrian Sanchez
36. Taylor Jordan
37. Taylor Hill
38. Brian Dupra
39. Christian Garcia
40. Marcos Frias
41. Jeff Mandel
42. Joe Testa
43. Neil Holland
44. Matt Swynenberg
45. Ben Grisz
46. Zech Zinicola
47. Erik Arnesen
48. Cory VanAllen
49. Ben Graham
50. Paul Applebee

MOAR SEVERINO!

by jeff550 on Dec 27, 2011 5:36 PM EST reply actions  

some familiar names not ranked very high...

I wonder when we’ll get medical updates on the new faces…

"...I don't want to go watch American League baseball." Lance Berkman......LBIMH...

by cat daddy3000 on Dec 27, 2011 9:50 PM EST up reply actions  

pgammo Peter Gammons
Several gm’s think Boras could do a 3 year Prince deal @ $26M per year, go back on the market @30 and beat Pujols’ AAV

I don't have a very high opinion of southern California, in sports or in general

by short_shifter on Dec 27, 2011 5:57 PM EST reply actions  

We should jump on that now

That way Morse could stay if hes still good

MOAR SEVERINO!

by jeff550 on Dec 27, 2011 6:12 PM EST up reply actions  

If he wants a contract like Pujols at age 30, he will need to lose weight.

His weight is the only thing keeping him from being signed right now. If he kept his offensive skill set but was skinnier, he would have been given a 8-10 year contract by now. If it is possible for him to lose weight and keep his power as well as improve his D, then the 3 year deal wouldn’t be a bad idea.

Skins rule

by Horcasitas4 on Dec 27, 2011 6:14 PM EST up reply actions  

He won't get a contract like Pujols because he's not Pujols

Pujols is the second best pure hitter ever. I’m not too worried about Fielders weight, I think he’ll keep producing close to his current level for 5-6 years, and still be decent for at least 8.

Aim for the head baby Jesus

by Doncosmic on Dec 27, 2011 6:25 PM EST via iPhone app up reply actions  

Seriously, ye' can't mention Fielder and Pujols in the same paragraph

Idda’ busted the bank for Pujols. For Fielder? Screw him.

"I can go to my left or right, I am amphibious." - Charles Shackelford

by Whupass on Dec 28, 2011 1:12 AM EST up reply actions  

Fielder was better than Pujols in 2011,

and almost certainly will be again next year, and the year after that, and the year after that….

Rob

--"Well my days of not taking you seriously are certainly coming to a middle." -- Mal Reynolds

by RobBobS on Dec 28, 2011 1:43 AM EST up reply actions  

I'm not saying he is Pujols, but has shown some decline and won't be "Pujols" much longer.

A slimmed down Fielder with improved defense(realistically not by much), consistent and extraordinary offense and with the durability he has already shown through his career can pull in a contract easily north of $200 million. Also remember that $250 million right now isn’t as outrageous as it was 3 years ago, and in 3 years it won’t be as much as it is now.

Skins rule

by Horcasitas4 on Dec 28, 2011 2:59 AM EST up reply actions  

No Fielder please, we got Morse

Morse is da Beast. My hope is we break the bank, sign Cespedes to be our long term CF, and sign Coco Crisp to be our interim CF while Cespedes works his way up from AA/AAA. Then we have a OF of Werth/Cespedes(Crisp)/Morse(Harper) and 1B LaRoche(Morse) 2012(2013 or sooner). I don’t want us trading any more prospects. The Lerners got the cash and should spend it on a potential 5-tool CF, not a 1B where were are long and don’t have a need. My two cents.

by dugjxn on Dec 27, 2011 9:07 PM EST reply actions  

If Cespedes is not ready to even compete in AAA, why break the bank for him

He would be entering his late 20’s before he ever saw a major league pitch, if he pans out. I am not big on signing Cespedes.

"I was a victim of a series of accidents. As are we all."
---Malachi Constant

by The Herndon Kid on Dec 27, 2011 9:12 PM EST up reply actions  

Wid you 100%, our position-player need is center-field and NOT 1B

But I just ain’t down with Cespedes. No sir. It’s either another interim season with Ankiel, Crisp, and such-like, OR we get out the crying-towel and part with some real talent in trade for that long-term guy we really need. Nothing’s free.

"I can go to my left or right, I am amphibious." - Charles Shackelford

by Whupass on Dec 27, 2011 9:30 PM EST up reply actions  

But I think you may have nailed it: Rizzo will sign Crisp and Cespedes. I don't like it, but there it is.

“Therefore He has sent the hand that wrote the inscription on the wall.” (Daniel 5:24)

"I can go to my left or right, I am amphibious." - Charles Shackelford

by Whupass on Dec 27, 2011 9:51 PM EST up reply actions  

I hope Not

Have u seen coco crisps fro..no offense just for the fro I wouldn’t sign him..cmon Rizzo just get Fielder…we need HR’s and not just Defense..we need a heavy left handed slugger…Prince can really help our struggling O….don’t under estimate guys the talent on the offensive side of the fins and Phillies.. I’m not sold on Laroche…

by Sportzxpert on Dec 27, 2011 9:58 PM EST via Android app reply actions  

Actually, what we really need is OBP

Also, props for the ’fro comment.

I can do without homers, as long as I get plenty of doubles and plenty of guys on to be batted in by said doubles.

"I just want to tell you both good luck. We're all counting on you."
-Leslie Nielsen, Airplane

by Jorgath on Dec 27, 2011 10:24 PM EST up reply actions  

reply fail

two minutes in the box for me

Aim for the head baby Jesus

by Doncosmic on Dec 27, 2011 10:33 PM EST up reply actions  

Fielder gets a ton on base?

Fielder is a ton on base?

I don't have a very high opinion of southern California, in sports or in general

by short_shifter on Dec 27, 2011 10:41 PM EST up reply actions  

Eh, there have been plenty of great players who were fat as hell.

he hits for average and takes walks much better than his father, and because of that I think he will age better as well.

Aim for the head baby Jesus

by Doncosmic on Dec 27, 2011 10:42 PM EST up reply actions  

I don't disagree with that

I’m just going for the cheap joke :-D

by d_c_guy on Dec 27, 2011 11:12 PM EST up reply actions  

it's semi-unavoidable

"I can go to my left or right, I am amphibious." - Charles Shackelford

by Whupass on Dec 28, 2011 1:19 AM EST up reply actions  

Like a semi truck?

"I just want to tell you both good luck. We're all counting on you."
-Leslie Nielsen, Airplane

by Jorgath on Dec 28, 2011 1:43 AM EST up reply actions  

yup

also semiround, semiskilled, semiprecious…ad infinitum (that there is Latin)

"I can go to my left or right, I am amphibious." - Charles Shackelford

by Whupass on Dec 28, 2011 2:08 AM EST up reply actions  

Name them

"I can go to my left or right, I am amphibious." - Charles Shackelford

by Whupass on Dec 28, 2011 1:20 AM EST up reply actions  

...and forget about Ruth, who was unique

"I can go to my left or right, I am amphibious." - Charles Shackelford

by Whupass on Dec 28, 2011 1:22 AM EST up reply actions  

Gwynn, Pendleton, Puckett, to name a few.

all overweight; all long time producers. It’s more common with pitchers, including the former “Mr. National” Livan Hernandez.

Rob

--"Well my days of not taking you seriously are certainly coming to a middle." -- Mal Reynolds

by RobBobS on Dec 28, 2011 1:40 AM EST up reply actions  

keep naming...

only position players, pls. You will run out of fingers soon (assuming you are equipped with ten)

"I can go to my left or right, I am amphibious." - Charles Shackelford

by Whupass on Dec 28, 2011 1:55 AM EST up reply actions  

make it two

"I can go to my left or right, I am amphibious." - Charles Shackelford

by Whupass on Dec 28, 2011 1:18 AM EST up reply actions  

...tons, not bases

"I can go to my left or right, I am amphibious." - Charles Shackelford

by Whupass on Dec 28, 2011 1:26 AM EST up reply actions  

Yakult made him drop off his Venezuelan Winter league team...

"...I don't want to go watch American League baseball." Lance Berkman......LBIMH...

by cat daddy3000 on Dec 27, 2011 11:18 PM EST up reply actions  

I always want them to contend, and I think they can do it now...

as long as Davey pays attention in ST and figures out who does what role the best….No in-season experimenting, Johnson.

"...I don't want to go watch American League baseball." Lance Berkman......LBIMH...

by cat daddy3000 on Dec 28, 2011 12:27 AM EST up reply actions  

Oh I think they can make the playoffs this year

but their best chances to actually win the whole thing will not happen until baseball jesus is actually able to pitch in the playoffs once they get there.

Aim for the head baby Jesus

by Doncosmic on Dec 28, 2011 12:30 AM EST up reply actions  

that's the only major drawback this year....

and they should pitch him on a regular #5 schedule until he’s done….

"...I don't want to go watch American League baseball." Lance Berkman......LBIMH...

by cat daddy3000 on Dec 28, 2011 12:39 AM EST up reply actions  

No need to worry on that front.

Davey was forced to experiment last season for three reasons:

1) It wasn’t really his team. He didn’t have guys playing the roles he wanted, so he had to experiment to make do.

2) He was rusty. The game has changed in the decade plus since he managed, and he needed to try certain things out for himself to see how they play out, and how his players and their opponents could respond.

3) He was not in serious contention at any point during his tenure. The focus from the moment he took over was to prepare this team for 2012 and beyond. Wins in 2011 were nice-to-have, but not must-have.

by rarumberger on Dec 28, 2011 12:38 PM EST up reply actions  

Sorry...he doesn't get a free pass from me on

his awful use of the bullpen for a while. He darn near broke it and most assuredly cost the team a few wins with his brain freezes.

I’m hoping… BIG TIME… that a full ST will help prevent that when the games count.
(Still not totally convinced Davey’s right for this team as Rizzo has constructed it.)

"player development" should not be gladiator games. by cat daddy3000 on Aug 6, 2011

by MissB on Dec 28, 2011 12:52 PM EST via mobile up reply actions  

We can always hope Knorr won't doze off as much

as Pat Corrales…and will help Davey pay better attention during the actual games…and cut down on some of those bad experiments/mental lapses.

"player development" should not be gladiator games. by cat daddy3000 on Aug 6, 2011

by MissB on Dec 28, 2011 12:44 PM EST via mobile up reply actions  

Anyone have a crystal ball?

If we could just be sure that Morse can go 280ish, 30ish, 90-100ish the next 3 years, I’m all for ignoring Fielder and hoping LaRoche has a good enough 1st half to sucker someone into an all-star break trade.

If the crystal ball reads “1 yr wonder”, let’s get seriously all-in on this 3 yr deal for Fielder stuff.

Cause if Morse isn’t legit and Zimm is, well Zimm and injured, then our only legit middle of the order bat is a 19 yr old kid. That lineup is just going to waste all of this pitching.

by Jordven Strasermann on Dec 28, 2011 1:01 AM EST reply actions  

Believe in the crane-kick, son

Mike Morse is as real as they make ’em.

"I can go to my left or right, I am amphibious." - Charles Shackelford

by Whupass on Dec 28, 2011 1:25 AM EST up reply actions  

Boras: Fielder won’t sign short-term, big-money deal

He’s not ready to give up his crazy dream of a deal similar to what Albert got.

by Expos 4ever on Dec 28, 2011 11:34 AM EST reply actions  

Market to Boras: Pbthhhhbt!

"player development" should not be gladiator games. by cat daddy3000 on Aug 6, 2011

by MissB on Dec 28, 2011 12:54 PM EST via mobile up reply actions   1 recs

I think Rizzo made his intentions clear last season when he signed LaRoche to a two year deal (worth $15 million) with an option for a third year. I would guess that Rizzo had checked the calendar and knew that Prince Fielder (and, for that matter, Albert Pujols) might be coming on the market. I would also guess that if Rizzo had wanted to position the Nats to be in the hunt for either of them, he would have structured LaRoche’s deal differently. possibility

But I think if Rizzo signs Fielder and creates a logjam consisting of Fielder and LaRoche at first base, he’ll do damage to his credibility in the long term. We’ve had enough trouble getting free agents to want to play here (see: contract for Jayson Werth). I think if Rizzo looks like he leads free agents to believe they’re in the Nats plans, and then changes the plans (based on information that Rizzo, agents and the players could all foresee), it won’t help the negotiating process. For example, I suspect Ryan Zimmerman is watching very carefully, and he and his agent will make note of how Rizzo handles free agents before he makes a decision about whether to remain with the Nationals.

There's no bigger burden than a great potential - Linus Van Pelt

by miseenjeu on Dec 28, 2011 11:57 PM EST reply actions  

I betcha Zimmerman hopes they sign Fielder.

Rob

--"Well my days of not taking you seriously are certainly coming to a middle." -- Mal Reynolds

by RobBobS on Dec 29, 2011 3:12 AM EST up reply actions  

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