Wire Taps: Washington Nationals' Post-Winter Meetings Plans, Ryan Zimmerman Extension Chatter...
by Patrick Reddington on Dec 9, 2011 11:26 AM EST
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• The Washington Nationals didn't find the starter or center fielder they wanted at the Winter Meetings, but there's still a few months til pitchers and catchers report (2/19) for them to wheel, deal or possibly spend some to improve the roster. They have until next Wednesday to decide if they'll enter the bidding process for Yu Darvish. There are a few links today that touch on the idea of getting an extension with the Nationals' FOF Ryan Zimmerman done and one link to an article in which a writer says that there's a new FOF in town. It was a long week in which a lot of money was thrown around. It's time to take a look back and then move forward. The Winter-Meetings-ending link collection starts... RIGHT NOW!!!...
• THE BIG STORY:
• Twitter: @NationalsPR: "Nationals Spring Training: Pitchers/Catchers (2/19), Position Players (2/23), 1st full workout (2/25)."
• NATS BEAT:
• "Rizzo would not divulge whether the Nationals planned to enter the bidding on Darvish, but even his refusal to comment suggested they probably will." - "Yu Darvish will be posted, and the Nationals are interested" - Adam KIlgore, Nationals Journal - The Washington Post
• "[Yu] Darvish is considered a rare talent. Better, many say without question, than Daisuke Matzusaka was before joining the Red Sox..." - "Japanese standout pitcher Yu Darvish may be an expensive alternative for Nationals" - Amanda Comak, Washington Times
• "The Nationals have been scouting Darvish for several years and have a strong opinion of him, so it's expected they will submit some kind of bid." - "Darvish posted, will Nats submit bid?" - Mark Zuckerman, NatsInsider.com
• "The Nationals have maintained interest in Darvish, and general manager Mike Rizzo has scouted the strikeout artist in person in his homeland." - "Rizzo coy on whether Nationals will bid for Yu Darvish" - Pete Kerzel, MASNSports.com
• "Buehrle was certainly more comfortable with the four-year deal as opposed to the three years the Nationals were offering at a reported price of around $40 million." - "Rizzo: No Buehrle, no problem" - Craig Heist, WTOP.com
• "Because of Desmond's progress at the leadoff spot, Rizzo doesn't feel there is a rush to acquire a leadoff hitter, which was one of the goals before the Winter Meetings began." - "Nationals comfortable with Ian Desmond leading off" - Bill Ladson, nationals.com: News
• "Nationals bench coach Randy Knorr did not have first baseman Tyler Moore much last year, but realizes what an asset the Mississippi State star can be and why he resides on the 40-man." - "Would Nats ever consider Moore or Marrero in a utility role?" - Byron Kerr, MASNSports.com
• "Despite any outside pressure to get something done, they never wanted to feel forced into making a move they didn't believe was right for them." - "Wrapping up the Winter Meetings" - Mark Zuckerman, NatsInsider.com
• "For four days a year, the entire baseball world is in one place. Executives from all 30 teams are under one roof." - "The 2011 winter meetings: that's a wrap" - Amanda Comak, Washington Times
• "[Albert] Pujols is a first baseman by trade, and will surely start at first for the Halos. He will also DH on occasion, but the point is, incumbent first baseman Mark Trumbo now finds himself a spare part." - "Fallout from Angels' spree will continue" - Phil Wood, MASNSports.com
• "[Ryan] Zimmerman wants to stay in D.C. Because he's considered the face of the franchise - well, until Stephen Strasburg and/or Bryce Harper get themselves established." - "Big contracts put Zimmerman in line for huge payday" - Pete Kerzel, MASNSports.com
• "'You can only protect so many players,' General Manager Mike Rizzo said. 'We felt like we had enough depth to absorb" losing the players.'" - "Nationals lose Erik Komatsu, Brad Meyers in Rule 5 draft" - Adam Kilgore, Nationals Journal - The Washington Post
• "Erik Komatsu, 24, was the Cardinals' lone selection in the major-league portion of the annual draft that allows major-league teams to pluck unprotected players..." - "Cards pick up OF Komatsu in Rule 5 draft" - Derrick Goold, St. Louis Post-Dispatch
• "'We feel that with the crop of guys that we have moving up, they would push Komatsu, and we felt we had enough depth to leave him exposed,' Rizzo said." - "Nationals gain two, lose two in Rule 5 Draft" - Bill Ladson, nationals.com: News
• "'We were prepared for the possibility that he would be (picked),' Nationals general manager Mike Rizzo said of Komatsu.'" - "Nats don't make a pick, but lose Komatsu, Meyers in Rule 5 draft (updated with Rizzo quotes)" - Pete Kerzel, MASNSports.com
• "Washington Nationals: Stephen Strasburg - As a rookie pitcher back in 2010, Strasburg was the biggest draw in the game." - "MLB's franchise faces" - Derrick Goold, St. Louis Post-Dispatch
• "The Nationals were expecting to lose more than just Meyers, knowing they're very deep in starting pitching and had prepared for the possibility that they'd lose Komatsu as well..." - "Nationals lose Komatsu, Meyers in Rule 5 draft" - Amanda Comak, Washington Times
• '[Brad Meyers] could earn a roster spot as the long man in the bullpen, allowing Hector Noesi to concentrate on starting..." - "Yankees Take Two Relievers in Rule 5 Draft" - David Waldstein, NYTimes.com
• "And if you're the Nationals or Ryan Zimmerman, you hopefully paid close attention to this all this." - "Nats, Zim can learn from Pujols drama" - Mark Zuckerman, NatsInsider.com
• "The Nationals may be the next best bet to break the bank on Fielder, the way they did Jayson Werth last winter, but they owe Adam LaRoche $9 million and would be better off not using Mike Morse in the outfield too much, or at all." - "Rumor mill continues" - Jason A. Churchill, Prospect Insider
• "Unfinished business: The Nationals are still looking for a veteran starting pitcher, center fielder and a few bench players. Rizzo believes he laid the groundwork to get what he wants." - "Nationals feel productive despite lack of deals" - Bill Ladson, nationals.com: News
• "It's become increasingly clear that the Nationals' hopes of trading to fill their twin vacancies for a center fielder and leadoff hitter are coupled with their ability to get another pitcher." - "Nats GM Rizzo upbeat as Winter Meetings end" - Pete Kerzel, MASNSports.com
• "So the Angels did the unthinkable, emerging within the past 48 hours or so with a stealth bid that stole Pujols away from the Cardinals..." - "Albert Pujols: Angels shock baseball with 10-year, $250 million deal" - Dave Sheinin, Baseball Insider - The Washington Post
• Your Daily Message From The Dalai Lama On Twitter (@DalaiLama):"I am a man of religion, but religion alone cannot answer all our problems."
• NATS MINOR/WINTER LEAGUE UPDATES:
• Liga Venezuela Beisbol Profesional: Aragua 5, Lara 1 - Wilson Ramos (ARA) - 1 for 5, 1 R - Box Score.
• Liga Venezuela Beisbol Profesional: Magallanes 2, Caribes 1 - Jesus Flores (MAG) - 1 for 3, 1 R - Box Score.
• Liga Venezuela Beisbol Profesional: Zulia 8, Caracas 1 - Josh WIlkie (CAR) - 0.2 IP, 3 H, 2 R, 2 ER, 1 K - Box Score.
• Liga de Beisbol Dominicano: Escogido 3, Licey 0 - Jhonatan Solano (LIC) - 1 for 4 - Box Score.
• "Rule 5 Draft Results" - NationalsProspects.com
• "The 2012 NationalsProspects.com Watchlist" - NationalsProspects.com
• NATSTOWN:
• "Winter meetings are kicking off; I’m expecting a ton of 'what-if; trade questions." - "Ask Boswell 12/5/11 edition" - Todd Boss, Nationals Arm Race
• "Plan A dashed, no Plan B, on to Plan Yu" - Nats Enquirer
• "A fellow blogger (For the Cubs at View from the Bleachers) asked about [Brad] Meyers earlier, so I got a little thing ready about him..." - "Rule V losses" - Harper, Nationals Baseball
• "It’s easy to see why both the Nationals and Marlins were so covetous of Buehrle, 32, who has spent his entire professional life with the Chicago White Sox since being drafted in 1998." - "Nats Whiff On Buehrle; Move On to Oswalt" - Samuel Chamberlain, District Sports Page
• "From the beginning, the Nationals weren't shy about making Mark Buehrle their top target, despite the non-DC media's attempt to make CJ Wilson their #1 guy." - "Winter Meetings Disappointing For Nationals So Far" - Joe Drugan, The Nats Blog
• "Nats Talk On The Go: Episode 3" - Capitol Baseball
"In this week's episode of Nats Talk On The Go, The Nats Blog's Joe Drugan and Capitol Baseball's Craig MacHenry talk about the Washington Nationals and Winter Meetings." -
• NL EAST UPDATES:
• Braves: "It was actually pretty interesting for us hardcore baseball fans that the Braves selected someone in the Rule 5 draft." - "Analysis Of Braves Rule 5 Selection Robert Fish" - gondeee, Talking Chop
• Mets: "For the right price, just about any player on the Mets’ roster is available. Just give general manager Sandy Alderson a call." - "Sandy Alderson, Mets general manager, willing to hear many different trade proposals" - MIke Puma, NYPOST.com
• Marlins: "The Marlins returned home from baseball’s winter meetings on 'Air Loria,' owner Jeffrey Loria’s private plane..." - "Pujols, Wilson say no; Miami Marlins still ‘cooking’" - Clark Spencer, MiamiHerald.com
• Phillies: "With Pujols signed, Lozano will now also have more time to negotiate with the Phillies or any other team that might be interested in shortstop Jimmy Rollins." - "Inside the Phillies: Pujols deal helps Phillies" - Bob Brookover, Philadelphia Inquirer
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Comments
Because of Desmond’s progress at the leadoff spot, Rizzo doesn’t feel there is a rush to acquire a leadoff hitter, which was one of the goals before the Winter Meetings began.
Indeed. Desmond’s skills at the leadoff position have improved dramatically since the beginning of the week.
Rob
-- In baseball we trust.
by RobBobS on Dec 9, 2011 11:35 AM EST reply actions 2 recs
Ian Desmond is a great leadoff hitter!
…in September.
"I just want to tell you both good luck. We're all counting on you."
-Leslie Nielsen, Airplane
Matt Moore
Rays just locked up Matt Moore. Let’s go Rizzo, your up, lets get this deal done.
You guys. You lollygag the ball around the infield. You lollygag your way down to first. You lollygag in and out of the dugout. You know what that makes you? Larry!
I suggest we offer Zim something that @TrippingOlney suggested for Pujols:
$10 million dollars (TOTAL) over the course of 200 years.
"I just want to tell you both good luck. We're all counting on you."
-Leslie Nielsen, Airplane
Heresy
I honestly believe that when you also consider defense, Ryan Zimmerman might be the absolute best player in the big league’s over the next 3-5 years. They need to lock him up coming off a down year.
Ross Detwiler will have a breakout year...Believe It!...and I'm serious this time!
Over the top
Zim is good; he’s not that good. Expect around a 5-5.5 bWAR out of him if healthy. That’s nowhere close to best in the Majors.
Sorry.
Rob
-- In baseball we trust.
Predictive Value
Theoretically most players peak somewhere between the ages of 27 and 29, for Zim those years are still ahead of him. If he’s already posted an over 7 WAR with little protection in the lineup it’s not at all far-fetched to think he could eclipse that each of the next two years.
What I’m getting at is that even though he’s been good, his best years should be ahead of him.
Ross Detwiler will have a breakout year...Believe It!...and I'm serious this time!
by Pig.Pen on Dec 9, 2011 4:33 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
He has a 5.3 and a 5.2 bWAR under his belt.
I don’t see it getting that much better.
Rob
-- In baseball we trust.
Wasn't he leading the NL in Fangraphs WAR at the time of his injuring in 2010?
Aim for the head baby Jesus
Been Really Busy This Week.....
….and have not followed all the discussion in this forum, so my apology if this was already discussed. However, I did see a comment within the past couple of days (I’m certain by Bowden) on ESPN, that suggested the Nats could pursue Hanley Ramirez from the Marlins, in a deal that would center around Ryan Zimmerman. Just the thought of that made me feel a little ill, and made me rejoice in the fact that we now have a better GM in Rizzo, and no longer Bowden (who would even consider such a move). Just wondering though….is Stan Kasten still around, maybe hiding somewhere in the Lerner mansion? There still seems to be a flavor in the air of Kastenomics…maybe Rizzo was taking detailed notes while Stan was still in town. I agree with most though….GET ZIM SIGNED LONG TERM! It would HAVE to be cheaper now, especially considering the absence of competing bids, than what it will be THEN when values increase….wouldn’t you think? But hey….I’m not a baseball executive, so maybe ours do know what’s best.
"Integrity First, Service Before Self, Excellence In All We Do" - USAF Core Values
I suspect that Zimmerman isn't pushing this very hard
For several reasons, including that extending now could well cost him a lot of money long term. If he goes out and has a healthy Zim year (much less a career/MVP year) then he really is in line for Tulowitzky money.
by d_c_guy on Dec 9, 2011 1:45 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
and if he goes out and has another injury-plagued, grade-B type season?
Rob
-- In baseball we trust.
Then he's in line for CJ Wilson kind of money. :)
"I just want to tell you both good luck. We're all counting on you."
-Leslie Nielsen, Airplane
Zim != Pujols
Not even close. If Zim walks away because he thinks $200M is insufficient, I won’t burn my jersey, but I sure as heck won’t wear it any more.
Rob
-- In baseball we trust.
No. But Zim > Reyes.
"I just want to tell you both good luck. We're all counting on you."
-Leslie Nielsen, Airplane
At least Al went to a different league…..imagine the Rangers hatred for Wilson, who bolted to a division rival. I would mention the Mets and Reyes, but the Mets are so low right now they probably don’t care. BTW….how much would Zim likely accept, right now, and for how long, to get locked-in? Just wondering what it would likely take today. 5 years? 7 years? 10 years? 20mil per? More?
Depending on the medicals
I would go 7 years and 130 million today for him, and in 3 years it would look like a bargain.
Ross Detwiler will have a breakout year...Believe It!...and I'm serious this time!
Zim > Pujols
Over the next 10 years at least. I would much, much rather have a 37 year old Zimmerman than a 42? (Would like to see the birth certificate) Pujols. Zimmerman doesn’t have to post better offensive numbers because the defense is so superb, but I think he will. While he’s been great already, he’s just entering his prime.
Ross Detwiler will have a breakout year...Believe It!...and I'm serious this time!
Unfortunately,
Zim has proved himself (to me) to be very inconsistent and streaky. So, while there are times he carries the team (or he hits that dramatic late-inning homer), there are other times when he can go three weeks straight with nothing but a few seeing-eye singles.
Such a player will not typically be able to put up big-time seasons. Pujols does it as a matter of course.
Rob
-- In baseball we trust.
I'm curious to how much you think he is worth.
I think you are the only one who isn’t saying pay the man anything he wants. Obviously, that’s not bad thing, but I’m just wondering what you think would be sufficient.
Skins rule
Well, I did say 200M at one point.
But even that seems like a lot. I tend to think of him as being worth $20M / year over a long term contract.
Rob
-- In baseball we trust.
It would make sense that he would accept less than that.
Both in terms of his value and his commitment to the Nationals. I would offer 8 years, $140-$150 million, with some wiggle room. I also wouldn’t hate it if he asks for more and gets it.
BTW I wasn’t trying to call you out, I was just curious.
Skins rule
What about Zim vs. Fielder?
Fielder has by far the better bat … but Zim has put up more bWAR and fWAR than Fielder.
Fielder's best bWAR is nearly a game better than Zim's best.
I think they are pretty close in terms of money I’d pay them, but perhaps that’s me expecting that it should be easier to keep Zim here than it would be to lure Fielder here.
Rob
-- In baseball we trust.
I see your point
But Pujols provides little to no defensive value. He is an above average 1B or rather he plays the easiest defensive position on the diamond. Also, with regards to streaky players it’s not uncommon for some of that to iron itself out as players enter their prime (which Zim is doing), for example Bonds was very streaky in his early to mid-20’s, but as he entered his prime a lot of the streakiness evaporated. Second, I think we have a very different idea of how good Pujols will be in 5 years, I think you’re looking at a 2-3 WAR player in 5 years, 1.5-2.5 WAR player in 6 years and after that you’re looking at a 1 WAR to perhaps even a negative WAR player. No one Pujols’ size produces past the age of 40 without pharmaceutical help.
Ross Detwiler will have a breakout year...Believe It!...and I'm serious this time!
Pay the man
Had Zimm had his 3 straight 7+ WAR season in 2011 (unfortunately was 2.5) he’d have been the 4th best in baseball since 2007 behind Pujols, Utley, and Holliday.
Pay the man while he is cheaper. And unlike those three, Zimm is on his way up.
You guys. You lollygag the ball around the infield. You lollygag your way down to first. You lollygag in and out of the dugout. You know what that makes you? Larry!
Never heard of this site before, but it was linked from baseball reference
http://www.throughthefencebaseball.com/bank-on-harper-starting-season-in-washington/14739/#
Ross Detwiler will have a breakout year...Believe It!...and I'm serious this time!
Offseason
Really wonder why the won’t talk about extending Zimmerman. The man is your franchise player, you should treat him as such. Not necessarily for 10 years, but a fair number, maybe 6? Also, with all these premiere free agents coming off the board, really starting to get worried at Rizzo’s inability to get any deals done so far.
They have had informal discussions, but no one is saying that they are not returning calls, etc
It’s really too early for both sides. The Nationals have concerns about Zimmerman’s injuries, Zimmerman wants to be paid like he never gets hurt. 2012 should naturally move the two towards a common ground, not away.
O GLORIOUS DAY
BALLESTER HAS FINALLY BEEN TRADED
The Balester trade seems like a fresh start for a fresh start
Perry was a 1st round pick, with good MiLB numbers. Hes also only 24, so there is hope
MOAR SEVERINO!
Yup
“The Nationals have traded right-hander Collin Balester to the Tigers in exchange for another right-hander, Ryan Perry.”
Don’t know much about Perry, but this seems like a pretty minor trade.
Someone on MLBTR said that he though Perry could devlope into a setup guy in a few years
said he was rushed through the minors. Now the big question is, does he have options?
MOAR SEVERINO!
One option remaining, IIRC
Brain: "Pinky, are you pondering what i'm pondering?"
Pinky: "Yes, ... wait, ... no, ... never mind"
Perry is a year younger and probably has more upside that Balester—- Perry was selected in the first round of the draft 2008 and has put up pretty good minor league numbers. Looks like the Tigers just gave up on him because he hasn’t done so well at the major league level.
Seems like Rizzo couldn’t imagine a real use for Balester for going forward, so he swapped him for a higher-upside project.
The real question for me is which pitcher has more/any minor league options
By all accounts Perry has a power arm, so that fits what Rizzo likes. Mostly this feels to me like a low level mutual change of scenery type trade – although the Nationals’ have suffered a significant loss in the all important porn star ’stache department.
It appears that Perry has at least 1 option left
possibly more. I could very well be wrong, though
MOAR SEVERINO!
Zuckerman says he has one option left.
@MarkZuckerman Mark Zuckerman
One reason for trade from #Nats perspective: Balester is out of options, Perry has one left.
Waiting to bang my drum in parades for the Nats and Caps.
And after I just spent 15 minutes figuring exactly that out LOL
Oh, well, it’s useful that I now know how option years are calculated :-)
I'm glad about this deal
Bally had worn out his welcome in the organization with his subpar 2011. I think Bally can make it in the bigs, but there simply isn’t enough room for him here with the likely moves we’re going to make. Enjoyed the ride, Bally, and best wishes with hopefully a bit more rope to make it in the bigs.
Waiting to bang my drum in parades for the Nats and Caps.
I like it too
Ax me, The Cat is the best pitching coach in baseball, and clearly Rizzo sees something in Ryan the Tigers don’t see. Looks like a ho-hum deal right now – but at first glance, so did the deals that brought us Ramos and Morse. This could be a real sleeper, boyz.
"On my tombstone just write, 'The sorest loser that ever lived.'" - Earl Weaver
Ramos wasn't ho hum
Morse however was. I’ll give you that.
Bally just always seemed immature. Maybe thats because of his twitter account?
You guys. You lollygag the ball around the infield. You lollygag your way down to first. You lollygag in and out of the dugout. You know what that makes you? Larry!
The porn 'stache certainly didn't help...
No matter how endearing it was..
The ability to destroy a planet is insignificant compared to the power of the Morse
by Nationalpastime9 on Dec 9, 2011 6:24 PM EST up reply actions
Yeah, the tongue action was enough to make ye' throw up
…specially with them damn camera close-ups
"On my tombstone just write, 'The sorest loser that ever lived.'" - Earl Weaver
Clippard
does something funky as well with his tongue. I sat front row at a cubs game next to the bullpen and it was ridiculous. he needs to chill out a bit .
You guys. You lollygag the ball around the infield. You lollygag your way down to first. You lollygag in and out of the dugout. You know what that makes you? Larry!
So yer telling me that you knew all along about Ramos?
Sure you did. Damned few foresaw what Ramos could and would do here. That’s what I meant.
As for Bally – nice fella, but a terminal busher. Sorry, Bally fans.
"On my tombstone just write, 'The sorest loser that ever lived.'" - Earl Weaver
Ramos
Was always very high in the pre-season prospect rankings.
http://www.baseballamerica.com/today/prospects/rankings/organization-top-10-prospects/2009/267227.html
http://www.baseballamerica.com/today/prospects/rankings/organization-top-10-prospects/2010/269381.html
2010, he was listed as 65 best prospect in baseball in Baseball Prospectus with Norris, Posey, Santana, and Montero in front of him in terms of Catchers.
You guys. You lollygag the ball around the infield. You lollygag your way down to first. You lollygag in and out of the dugout. You know what that makes you? Larry!
He was ranked behind Norris, Posey, Santana, and Montero?
Ye’ don’t say. Thanks for making my point. Who knew?
Today, it’s a short list of catchers would rank better’ than Ramos, in all of MLB. After his sophomore year, ye’ll be counting them on one hand, without using a couple of fingers. Just you wait.
"On my tombstone just write, 'The sorest loser that ever lived.'" - Earl Weaver
well Posey and Santana would still both be,
and I wouldn’t be surprised if Montero ends up the better player as well.
Aim for the head baby Jesus
If I were the Nationals I'd deal Ramos for Montero in a heartbeat - and I like Ramos
Ramos’s defense is better, but Montero’s bat is truly special. He’s got a chance to be a Mike Piazza type offensive catcher. It’s hard to get that much offense from that position.
Zuckerman's got an article up
Here goes. Bally’s wife is due to have her first child soon as well.
Waiting to bang my drum in parades for the Nats and Caps.
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