Washington Nationals Announce No Deals As Deadline Passes. Drew Storen And Tyler Clippard Still Nats.
by Patrick Reddington on Jul 31, 2011 4:28 PM EDT
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Tyler Cippard was pitching as the 2011 Non-Waiver Deadline passed and Drew Storen came on to a loud ovation in the top of the ninth inning with the Nats up 2-1 over New York. No deals have been announced as of 4:19 pm EDT. We'll have more information after today's game, but as of now it looks like the back of the Nats' bullpen will remain in tact. The Nationals and Twins were reportedly unable to come to an agreement with NatsInsider.com's Mark Zuckerman reporting in an article entitled, "Storen stays as deadline passes", that, "Twins GM Bill Smith wanted more players in addition to Storen included in the trade, while Rizzo was willing to deal the 23-year-old closer only if he got more than Span in return."
We'll have more if there is more, but for now it looks like the deals that sent Hairston to Milwaukee and Marquis to Arizona will be it...
UPDATE 4:27 pm EDT: Storen just gave up a game-tying HR to left. Scott Hairston's second of the game ties it at 2-2. What are you going to do?
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Glad we kept Storen.
What happened in this game meant very little. His body of work and potential has proven to be more impressive than Span’s. He just pulled a 2010 Clippard and went for the win.
Skins rule
What are we going to do?
Celebrate a vulture W, and try not to think of a Bixler/Ankiel CF platoon and a black hole at leadoff.
Brain: "Pinky, are you pondering what i'm pondering?"
Pinky: "Yes, but isn't a cucumber that small called a gherkin?"
yes....
"Let’s ask Witch Doghouse for some charms for the trend to continue!" by jbg2772 on Jul 21, 2011
by cat daddy3000 on Jul 31, 2011 5:01 PM EDT up reply actions
how 'bout celebrate a vulture win
And bring back Shark as soon as he finishes up his Shark Week duties (7 more days until he does the 10 day requirement?) And yes, Bix back to AAA please
by FreddieBallgame on Jul 31, 2011 5:31 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Which points up the flaw in the "trade Desmond, call up Lombardozzi" assumptions
Lombardozzi has had a great debut at AAA, with a slash of .323/.361/.430. Great! You know what position player is leading Syracuse in OPS? Brian Bixler! That’s right, BB has a slash of .314/.439/.407 in AAA ball this year. Everyone who thinks that Lombardozzi is just going to step into DC and start OPSing .360 should consider Bixler. And Justin Maxwell. Etc. It’s a long way from AAA to MLB, and rushing Lombardozzi isn’t necessary. Call him (and Marrerro) up in September – Milone and Peacock should be up already – and let them fight for jobs in ST, sure.
bingo on the AAA to MLB stat reality....
in the meantime, Bixler probably needs to learn here…
"Let’s ask Witch Doghouse for some charms for the trend to continue!" by jbg2772 on Jul 21, 2011
by cat daddy3000 on Jul 31, 2011 5:46 PM EDT up reply actions
For me
Its that Desmond doesn’t have what it takes. Lombardozzi serves as a replacement once Espinosa moves to ss and a fill in until Rendon comes up. We should see what he can do and bench Desmond. His figures are atrocious.
I am tired of desmonds at bats
You guys. You lollygag the ball around the infield. You lollygag your way down to first. You lollygag in and out of the dugout. You know what that makes you? Larry!
bu...but, he was Player of the Game today.....
hitting 8th screws him up… and you don’t get anything to hit…Lombardozzi can come up in September and compete for a job in ST, if he’s capable……
"Let’s ask Witch Doghouse for some charms for the trend to continue!" by jbg2772 on Jul 21, 2011
by cat daddy3000 on Aug 1, 2011 1:00 AM EDT up reply actions
So, you have decided that Espinosa's good for the long haul,
and Desmond’s not? Interesting, ‘cause in case you haven’t noticed lately, Espinosa has struggled big time with the bat. Desmond’s July OPS of .632 may not have been great, but it was better than Espi’s .613. Espi has a lot of holes in his swing, as evidenced by his large number of strikeouts, and the league is exploiting them at this point. Will he make the adjustments? I sure hope so.
But the major point here is that Ian Desmond had a .263/.300/.434 slash line through his first 100 games; Espinosa has a .225/.309/.431 in his first 106. Desmond has struggled since his hot start, will Espinosa? Can anyone say for sure?
Rob
-- In baseball we trust.
Does it matter?
How long do you give the starting position to one of the worst performing SS’s in baseball? I don’t really care whether or not he could combine some skills in some way to get going. Let’s talk about now. People argue that he is a great defensive player, but his stats still don’t reflect above average defense to make up for his poor offensive abilities.
Right now he is more valuable than Y. Betancourt who will lose his job, Cliff Pennington who is about to, and Ryan Theriot who just did. Thats it.
You guys. You lollygag the ball around the infield. You lollygag your way down to first. You lollygag in and out of the dugout. You know what that makes you? Larry!
Let's be clear
He was GIVEN the job. Time for some competition.
You guys. You lollygag the ball around the infield. You lollygag your way down to first. You lollygag in and out of the dugout. You know what that makes you? Larry!
I.e.
We need to see what Espinosa looks like at SS and what other players who can either play SS or 2nd base look like?
Is Espinosa and answer there, well we clearly don’t know yet, thats why we have to find out.
You guys. You lollygag the ball around the infield. You lollygag your way down to first. You lollygag in and out of the dugout. You know what that makes you? Larry!
Not sure where you get your numbers, but...
According to BBR, Desmond is ranked 19th in WAR among the 45 players who played a majority of their games at SS. His WAR is 0.6, and the defensive component of that is 4 runs better than the average (not replacement level) player. I will once again point out that he’s substantially more valuable than more lauded players like Hanley, Jeter, Renteria, Therio, and Furcal. Does he compare with Tulowitzki? Of course not, but he’s certainly substantially better than you give him credit for.
Rob
-- In baseball we trust.
Not to quibble with a point I agree with...
…but isn’t replacement-level defense assumed to be league average? I vaguely recall some baseball quote about glovemen falling out of any tree that you shake hard enough, with the bat separating the men from the boys.
"I don't believe in luck, but it was just one of those things where it wasn't really skill, either." --Jerry, jr.
This would basically be an argument
of whether BBR or Fangraphs uses better data for their measurements, UZR or TZ
You guys. You lollygag the ball around the infield. You lollygag your way down to first. You lollygag in and out of the dugout. You know what that makes you? Larry!
Re: replacement level defense.
Ummm… not sure. I should look into that.
Rob
-- In baseball we trust.
Wins above Replacement for position players
A Single Number that presents the number of wins the players has added to the team above a replacement player (AAA or AAAA player for example) Scale 8+ MVP, 5+ All-Star, 2+ Starter, 0-2 Reserve, < 0 Replacement
Desmond = 0.6
Espinosa = 2.0
You guys. You lollygag the ball around the infield. You lollygag your way down to first. You lollygag in and out of the dugout. You know what that makes you? Larry!
Runs for Fielding
is based on a league average
You guys. You lollygag the ball around the infield. You lollygag your way down to first. You lollygag in and out of the dugout. You know what that makes you? Larry!
UZR
has desmond at approximately .8 Runs better than average
“- TZ and TZL are both good metrics, although UZR and DRS are still considered the most accurate fielding metrics. However, UZR and DRS can only be calculated for modern-day players due to technology constraints, so TZ is the best historical fielding statistic available. If you want to compare a modern day player’s fielding with a player from the 1940s, TZ would be the statistic to use.”
“While UZR and DRS are both based off of data collected by Baseball Info Solutions (BIS), Total Zone (TZ) is the lone defensive statistic calculated exclusively using play-by-play data available from Retrosheet. Invented by Sean Smith, it’s calculated in a variety of ways depending upon how much data is available in that specific year (details can be found here), but since it only requires play-by-play data, TZ scores can be calculated for any player in baseball history. As a result, TZ is used in historical WAR scores on both FanGraphs and Baseball-Reference.
Total Zone with Location Data (TZL) is an improved version of TZ that Sean Smith developed this past season. You can read about all its details here, but in short, it uses Gameday hit location data to make its calculations more accurate."
You guys. You lollygag the ball around the infield. You lollygag your way down to first. You lollygag in and out of the dugout. You know what that makes you? Larry!
"...are still considered to be..."
Well, I suppose there are some that still consider them to be. I personally have big issues with UZR, the assumptions that it makes, the types of plays it uses and the types it ignores, and the methodology used to assess zones of responsibility. Other than that though, I’m a big fan.
Rob
-- In baseball we trust.
Rob............
I have decided that ESPI is twice the player DEZ will ever be…………..
You’ve scene that swing of DEZ’s, just pitiful. and those K’s………
I’ll take a SS that hits .240 with 24 HR’s and 80 rbis…………I need someone on this team to strikeout in the 50s.
Lombo should be brought up in two weeks an the move should be made…………….
And why we bat him 2nd?
I have NO IDEA!
You guys. You lollygag the ball around the infield. You lollygag your way down to first. You lollygag in and out of the dugout. You know what that makes you? Larry!
135 k's...............5-6 hrs
8th is exactly where he belongs……………….
And on a team thats still rebuilding, the worst player is the next one to go………..
The rest of 2011 should be used to see if ESPI can play short and if LOMBO can hit .250 with low K’s…………
THE HOLD UP IS A GUY HITTING .223!!!!!!……………………My anger grows weekly on this issue………..
When Bixler was 26
He had an OPS of .600 as has been labeled a utility player for the rest of his career.
You guys. You lollygag the ball around the infield. You lollygag your way down to first. You lollygag in and out of the dugout. You know what that makes you? Larry!
Bixler.............
Should be cut today…………Failing to get those two bunts down is unacceptable………….Wheres LIVO? Can he play center cause he can get the bunts down…………
Both are excellent, but Espy's the better athlete of the two, hands down
Espy’s a SS playing out of position at 2B, and doing it like a Gold Glover. Both are streaky at the plate, and what of it – Espy’s better there too, because he hits for better power than Desmond, and hits from both sides of the plate.
IF you could keep only one of these guys, you’d keep Espy. Fortunately, we don’t have to make that choice. Yet.
"On my tombstone just write, 'The sorest loser that ever lived.'" - Earl Weaver
My point all along here is that
using a little under 2/3rds of a season, everyone is simply convinced that Espinosa is a keeper. But some people have also concluded that Desmond is a dumper, when there’s zero ML evidence that Espinosa will be better than Desmond in the long term, and there’s a reasonable argument that Desmond actually outperformed Espinosa in his first 100 games (at least, offensively).
I’m not saying that Desmond will be a very valuable shortstop in his career, but it appears to me that he will probably be a slightly above average, defense-oriented guy playing in a defense-oriented position. Guys like that aren’t that easy to come by with, and the calls to toss him off the bus at this point in his career just baffle me.
Rob
-- In baseball we trust.
Without question, Six is a top hand and will be for many years to come
Thing is, when you’re shopping for a first-tier CFer and lead-off guy, you gotta come to the market-place with something of value (good flick – 1957, b/w with Sidney Poitier and Rock Hudson).
My point: because we also have Espy, this makes Six the best position-player we can “afford” to trade away. I’m satisfied that Espy can play SS just as well as Six – and who knows, somma them guys in the bushes may pan out for 2B.
Meanwhile, we need that quality CFer. Need him bad. Real bad.
"On my tombstone just write, 'The sorest loser that ever lived.'" - Earl Weaver
yep, once again the L/R split fascination makes for some questionable roster management...
"Let’s ask Witch Doghouse for some charms for the trend to continue!" by jbg2772 on Jul 21, 2011
by cat daddy3000 on Jul 31, 2011 5:42 PM EDT up reply actions
Patience can be a virtue at times
"On my tombstone just write, 'The sorest loser that ever lived.'" - Earl Weaver
Storen's was probably still distracted from all of the recent trade talk
Even if the deadline had passed, the recent trade rumors may have still been bothering him. He should settle down in a couple days.
-------------------------------------------------
"Save it. I'm goin' for a smoothie."
The Washington Nationals, the team of the 2010s!
That would not surprise me.
Rocking the Red for teams on the banks of the Potomac and at the Gateway Arch and Singing the Blues about Hockey.
Maybe he was distracted,
but he has shown a disturbing propensity toward giving up game-tying homers to players not known for hitting the ball out of the park (Bartlett, Y. Molina, and now Hairston). That’s not including the one he gave up to Cameron in a non-save situation earlier in the week. At least all those game-tying meatballs he gave up were with bases empty. I’m willing to ignore the one against Cameron, since he was coming in to get some work after several days when his services as closer were not needed. I’m glad we didn’t give him up for a player whose health is a question mark given the less than stellar record of the Nats medical staff.
Unfortunately, he’s not the only one of our relievers who’s surrendered a homer in game tying situations. Both Clippard and Rodriquez have done so as well. Generally, the Nats have good late inning relievers but these game tying homers are cringe-worthy.
Rocking the Red for teams on the banks of the Potomac and at the Gateway Arch and Singing the Blues about Hockey.
that's what we get with the "throw strikes!", "don't nibble", pitch-to-contact (P2K) philosophy of McCatty and Rizzo....
it beats walks……
"Let’s ask Witch Doghouse for some charms for the trend to continue!" by jbg2772 on Jul 21, 2011
by cat daddy3000 on Jul 31, 2011 7:11 PM EDT up reply actions
Nothin' beats strikeouts...
Just sayin’.
"I don't believe in luck, but it was just one of those things where it wasn't really skill, either." --Jerry, jr.
strikeouts are good............sometimes the hitters connect for home runs, though...
(and that would be P2C above….)
"Let’s ask Witch Doghouse for some charms for the trend to continue!" by jbg2772 on Jul 21, 2011
by cat daddy3000 on Jul 31, 2011 9:50 PM EDT up reply actions
Sometimes, the P2K guys run into C by mistake
It happens.
While I’m sure Span would have been a good acquisition for the Nats, giving up Storen would have been too high a price. Granted, it’s hard to determine the value of closers, since their performance tends to be mercurial, but Storen has the potential to be a stud closer and is already headed in that direction.
Rocking the Red for teams on the banks of the Potomac and at the Gateway Arch and Singing the Blues about Hockey.
I think this is right
The key to closers is selling high, and Storen’s potential value is much higher than this. It’s a risk, but probably a worthwhile one.
Say what you want about America, thirteen bucks still gets you a hell of a lot of mice!
Ankeil............
Plays CF and hits 7th……….Lombardozzi should be hitting leadoff in two weeks………….
Complete nonsense pandering to a guy hitting .223…….3hrs………..90Ks………
Because guys who do ok in a short time in AAA make great leadoff hitters in the Majors?
Aim for the head baby Jesus
And guys who have a good month (or so I'm told) should be the starting CF?
not that there are many alternatives, with apologies to Sharkadina
Brain: "Pinky, are you pondering what i'm pondering?"
Pinky: "Yes, but isn't a cucumber that small called a gherkin?"
Why the lengthy ellipses?
With all respect, one period is sufficient at the completion of a sentence. Just a suggestion.
In response to your comment, no one is “pandering” to Rick Ankiel; we’re merely getting by at CF the best we can. For now. I thought everyone understood that.
"On my tombstone just write, 'The sorest loser that ever lived.'" - Earl Weaver
Desmond...........
is the one hiting .228 3 hrs, 90 k’s………….
[What the hell, I figured it was worth a try]
"On my tombstone just write, 'The sorest loser that ever lived.'" - Earl Weaver
Just some thoughts on the entire thread
1. The Lombo to Bixler comparison isnt that big, and Bixler was never really a prospect, more of an OG, like most of our AAA team, he just had a good ST.
2. As much as I like Lombo, we cant be dumping players and banking on him, why dont we give him a shot in September, and ST to earn the job, and if he does, then we can talk about dumping guys to make room for him
3. One last though on Desmond, I think the quad injury was really effecting him during the first half, as he is a different player so far in the second half. I think Desmond could hit .260 with 15HR, but the power seems to be gone this year(injury related?)
SSS, but...
Desmond’s OPS in the second half is .761. If he hits anywhere near .761 — with his sparkly defense — then he’ll have himself a long productive career at shortstop.
Rob
-- In baseball we trust.
True enough--that's well above league average, which is down at .700 this year.
"I don't believe in luck, but it was just one of those things where it wasn't really skill, either." --Jerry, jr.
Dumping............
the time for “dumping” has come and gone…………Now just play Lombo for 40 games.
Same with Starting Detwiller over Gorzolanny………..
As soon as the Wang experiment comes to an end bring up Milone.
I’d even like to see Marrero though Morse deserves to play 1st until his next DL stint, including over LaFraud.
Lombo will get more than 40 games
Between Syracuse and (after September 1) in DC. I think that’s the right move, FWIW (which isn’t much).
I actually hope that the Wang experiment goes reasonably well and lasts the rest of the season. I do think that Milone and Peacock should be getting starts ahead of Livo in September. Hopefully Strasburg can slide into JZim’s place in the rotation.
Morse deserves to play 1st until his next DL stint
His next DL stint? When was his last DL stint? Morse has never struck me as injury prone. Marrero will get a chance to play in DC in September, though. He’s earned a callup with a pretty good season at Syracuse.
Morse deserves to play 1st until his next DL stint
That was a shot at Rizzo trying to force LaFraud back on the team in the spring…….Just pay him his money and let him pound sand………
Morse has just looked so comfortable at 1st. Leave it alone.
Find a .300 hitting OF free agent for Left.
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