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A Few 2011-2012 Offseason CF Options

 

If there's one thing that Mike Rizzo has shown us over the past few seasons it's that he's never afraid to make a splash when acquiring new players. Whether it's through the draft, the free agent market, or the trade market (nixed Greinke deal), he's made it known that he's willing to give to get. One of the more apparent needs this offseason is an everyday centerfielder. And now that we're wrapping up the 2011 season, this seems like an opportune time to lay out all the options for this position.

  • CF Options
  • - Denard Span, Twins: Obviously the club has shown alot of interest in him in the past. And in terms of proven ability, he is definitely the best available leadoff hitter. But Rizzo backed away from him at the deadline because of health concerns and after his concussion symptoms seemed to have gotten worse after the deadline, it's hard to really see the Nats reconsidering Span in the offseason. Especially at the same price as before (Storen, Bernadina, Lombardozzi).
    - BJ Upton, Rays: Another guy that Rizzo has had his eyes on over the past few years. Upton, who is experiencing somewhat of a down year, has still put up a higher WAR than anyone on the Nats other than Danny Espinosa. With the emergence of Desmond Jennings, Upton has become even more expendable and he has even publicly stated his desire to play for Washington. To get him, the Rays would probably try to get Derek Norris and some bullpen arms in return at the least. The only question is, whether the Nats are willing to add another toolsy high strikeout guy to their lineup for this price.
    - Grady Sizemore, Indians: Depending on whether the club picks up his option or not, Sizemore could be had via free agency or trade. But either way, he wouldn't be a terribly expensive option to go to because he is coming off another unproductive injury riddled season. At 29 though, it would not be that much of a suprise to see Sizemore return near his 6-8 WAR form. This is another instance where injury risk/reward is the deciding factor.
    - Peter Bourjos, Angels: If the Angels are that concerned about their overcrowded outfield, Bourjos seems like the only guy they can deal to clear things up a bit. Hunter's, Abreu's and Wells' contracts are all untradable. Trout is banging on the door for playing time and with Morales back next year, Trumbo may be bumped to the outfield mix as well. Bourjos' outstanding speed and defense is probably what peaked Rizzo's interest at the deadline and he may be willing to give up some young pitching to get him. Here, the only concern is Bourjos' approach at the plate. .321 OBP and a 22.4% K rate doesn't really suggest that he's the leadoff hitting type Rizzo is looking for but he's still young and athletic enough to work with.
    - Franklin Gutierrez, Mariners: (Pure Speculation) Defensively, Gutierrez is widely considered the best center fielder in the league when healthy. And we all know how much Rizzo loves D. But offensively over the last few seasons he has gone from passable to abysmal. It could be easy to write off Gutierrrez completely because of his recent offensive struggles. But his poor performance at the plate could actually be explained by a gastrointestinal bug that has caused an apparent weight loss this season. A full offseason to regain strength could help him rebound fully. He's another guy that could be acquired this offseason at his lowest price but there is a huge injury risk on him moving forward.
    - Dexter Fowler/Charlie Blackmon, Rockies(Pure Speculation) It's safe to say the Rockies are going to have a surplus in center field in the future. Dexter Fowler is finally reaching potential in the majors, Charlie Blackmon is finally reaching the majors, and switch hitting power hitter Tim Wheeler is tearing up AA pitching. Fowler is just starting to show a little patience at the plate and Blackmon has never had a OBP below .360 in his professional career, so they both are showing their potential as leadoff hitters. The Rockies are lacking power arms in the rotation so I'm sure they'd target a guy like Detwiler in any trade. But this seems to be a fit for both teams if the Nats are willing to go the younger/unproven route.
    - Austin Jackson, Tigers: (Pure Speculation) So far in his career, A-Jax has shown that he will be an above average center fielder defensively but his offensive production depends a little too heavily on a high BABIP. He has the speed to lead off but his plate approach is what holds him back there. He has a career BB/K ratio of .30 (league average should be around .43). The Nats could go after him if they feel like he will refine his approach a little more, but there's no real evidence that the Tigers are shopping him right now.
    - Roger Bernadina/ Rick Ankiel, Nationals: To be fair, it shouldn't be assumed that these guys definitely won't get a chance next year. If Rizzo decides not to take a risk on any injured or unproven centerfielders, he might just leave center field as is and save the time and money to use it elsewhere (toward Fielder, Wilson, or Zimmerman extension for example).

Overall, there is some sort of risk involved with each player available. The only center fielders that are young and proven are locked up or untouchable. This is why, in my personal opinion, we should be a little more open to B.J. Upton. If Matt Kemp can go from a .3 WAR season to a 7.6 WAR season, there's no reason why Upton can't make half that leap especially while he's only 27 and he's already done it twice before. Definitely open to discussion though; let me know if you want to add anyone or change anything. I'd love to hear what you guys think!

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One unmentioned option:

Jayson Werth. Davey and Rizzo have both commented on his being able to play CF, and Davey’s been playing him there (with Ankiel & Bernadina playing a corner when in the lineup), except for the games when Werth’s leg injury has flared up. He’s not the best defensive option, and doesn’t answer the leadoff question, but Davey’s always liked offensive-oriented lineups (NYM had Howard Johnson and Kevin Mitchell seeing extensive time at SS). I expect Werth to hit closer to his Phillies numbers than this year’s slash, so I wouldn’t be surprised if the Nats open ’12 with an outfield alignment of Morse-Werth-? .

Brain: "Pinky, are you pondering what i'm pondering?"
Pinky: "Yes, ... wait, ... no, ... never mind"

by jbg2772 on Sep 21, 2011 10:05 AM EDT reply actions  

Ankiel

If Werth and Laroche have rebound seasons, the team can afford Ankiel’s offensive shortcomings, eliminating the need for a new CF at all. That’s a big if, though. And it doesn’t really solve the leadoff problem, but luckily there’s leadoff candidates to be found among middle infielders (including our own Lombardozzi).

by rarumberger on Sep 21, 2011 10:35 AM EDT up reply actions  

I think that's what they'll do if everything else doesn't work out.

But that right fielder better be able to hold his own with glove.

Whats the frequency, Kenneth?

by ZimforPrez on Sep 21, 2011 3:47 PM EDT up reply actions  

Harper...

"LESS LOON...!!!" by MissB on Sep 12, 2011
"...and the Nats win four in a row in NY." by Patrick Reddington on Sep 15, 2011

by cat daddy3000 on Sep 21, 2011 10:28 AM EDT reply actions  

The Nats aren't saying it,

but this seems to be the obvious reason Werth’s playing center. We can assume Morse in left, which means the whole ‘searching for a CF’ story is just a ruse.

Rob

-- In baseball we trust.

by RobBobS on Sep 21, 2011 11:28 AM EDT up reply actions  

I think that the Nats aren't saying it in part because it's obvious, and in part because they want to see if he can consistently play a decent CF

That just raises the next question, though. If Werth plays CF who plays RF until Harper makes it (whether in 2012, 2013 or …)?

by d_c_guy on Sep 21, 2011 11:31 AM EDT up reply actions  

Morse-Werth-Harper OF makes me cringe defensively / Morse at first

Werth is a great corner outfielder with a strong arm, not a great CF. His age will only slow him down. While I don’t know much about Harper, it seems like he’s similar. It would seem to me that IF Morse continues beast mode, come 2013 (read: after LaRoche’s contract ends) Morse would move back to first and you’d have two great corner outfielders. LaRoche would have to really perform next year to win a contract extension, I’m talking higher than career numbers which is unlikely. Still need CF, but with two good corners you have leeway.

by mk7676 on Sep 21, 2011 2:40 PM EDT up reply actions  

Agree.

Like it or not we need Werth to remain productive and playing CF isn’t a good idea for that. Plus, I don’t see Harper becoming a viable CF for awhile. He is still newish to the outfield, so I wouldn’t be suprised if they give him time in RF or LF first to work on his routing. Plus, we don’t know how long it will take him to get his .256/.329/.395 slash up, maybe he’ll arrive in June and maybe it will be September. Eitherway, we can always move Morse back to first.

by chubias on Sep 21, 2011 4:23 PM EDT up reply actions  

I think we can still go either way with it though.

We’re trying Werth in center just to see if a Morse/Werth/Harper outfield could work. I don’t think that trying him in center means it’s a permanent move that we’re definitely going to implement right away next year. There is a way to have Morse, Harper, Werth, AND a shiny new center fielder and thats just to wait at least a half season to unload LaRoche. Morse goes back to first, Harper can be up if need be, Werth’s in his natural spot, and we have an actual center fielder patrolling center. No one is out of place.

Whats the frequency, Kenneth?

by ZimforPrez on Sep 21, 2011 4:06 PM EDT up reply actions  

also, gluttony of poor fielding outfielders

Chances are Nix and Gomes are not back next year. So Werth in CF now probably won’t continue next year. Even if it’s Ankiel or the Shark, god, please no Werth in CF next year.

by mk7676 on Sep 21, 2011 4:49 PM EDT up reply actions  

Troof

They both need to stick on the corners though

Whats the frequency, Kenneth?

by ZimforPrez on Sep 21, 2011 7:09 PM EDT up reply actions  

I don't think you'll ever see Morse/Werth/Harper in the OF on an ongoing basis

If Harper is ready in 2012 and Morse keeps hitting, the Nats would most likely dump LaRoche for a bag of baseballs at the trade deadline. This is why I think the Nats hang onto Ankiel or Bernadina as a fourth or fifth OF in 2012: to give a defensive replacement for Morse until Harper comes up, and to provide a plus CF to go with Harper and Werth in the corners after he comes up.

If Harper isn’t ready until 2013, the Nationals have a buyout clause in LaRoche’s contract that they can exercise after 2012. Once again, Morse goes to first and Harper to the corner.

by d_c_guy on Sep 21, 2011 4:51 PM EDT up reply actions  

Ankiel and Bernadina are not "plus center fielders."

Ankiel doesn’t have the bat, and Shark doesn’t have the glove.

"If you ain't got the pants, you ain't got a chance." --PerryMason (on the sartorial component of being a Real Ballplayer)

by Doghouse on Sep 21, 2011 10:13 PM EDT up reply actions  

Fixed

“plus defensive CF”

by d_c_guy on Sep 21, 2011 10:27 PM EDT up reply actions  

Good roundup, Zim4Prez

A few of those guys weren’t on my radar at all. Right now, I think Werth is getting an evaluation in CF for the rest of the season (his hitting this season plays pretty well for a CF, and any regression toward his 2008-10 numbers would be gravy) in anticipation of Harper going to RF. I suspect that unless Rizzo finds a spectacular deal, we’re only going to see OF changes at the margins, along the lines of Gomes/Nix/Ankiel types. The Nats are likely to start 2012 with Werth, Morse, and then three 4/5 OF types, figuring Harper to come up mid-season.

"If you ain't got the pants, you ain't got a chance." --PerryMason (on the sartorial component of being a Real Ballplayer)

by Doghouse on Sep 21, 2011 2:15 PM EDT reply actions  

I agree.

And the infield seems set – LaRoche (like it or not), Espinosa, Desmond, Zimmerman, and Ramos.

AND, I wager the starting rotation will be filled from within the organization, too (two-headed beast, plus Lannan, Det, and Wang). (Wang gets counted by me as within the organization even though he’ll be a free agent, and yes, I fully understand there are those who don’t think he’ll be around, and don’t otherwise want him around).

Bottom line is the only action from the front office that I expect to see impacting the 25-man roster next year will involve 1) bench players; and 2) bullpen.

So it begs the question, I suppose: do we think that this starting lineup, plus Harper once he arrives, is good enough to seriously win?

If you don't eat your meat, you can't have any pudding! How can you have any pudding if you don't eat your meat?!

by ricksnats on Sep 21, 2011 2:54 PM EDT up reply actions  

Now *that* would be a good post in itself

it begs to ask the questions (among others)
- Will Werth regress toward the mean (i.e., 2008-2010 numbers)?
- Will Espinosa adjust, or will he be a streaky .235 hitter with some power?
- Will LaRoche (a) contribute along career lines, and (b) not be a first-half black hole?

And what about Naomi?

Brain: "Pinky, are you pondering what i'm pondering?"
Pinky: "Yes, ... wait, ... no, ... never mind"

by jbg2772 on Sep 21, 2011 3:24 PM EDT up reply actions  

LaRoche

has consistently throughout his career been a well-below-average producing offensive first baseman. His WARs have been below 2 every year save one, five years ago. He will be one of the two or three least productive 1Bs in the league again next year, like pretty much every year of his career. He IS a black hole with the bat. But the Nats are stuck with him.

Rob

-- In baseball we trust.

by RobBobS on Sep 21, 2011 4:23 PM EDT up reply actions  

I don't think it is enough

I really think we need to add a CF/ leadoff guy and another arm to the rotation and then just call it a day. Werth is a good RF and should stay there, especially as he ages. Harper will be the opposite corner outfielder once he comes up. Say we manage to obtain Denard Span and he checks out medically, then your outfield is set with Morse, Span, Werth. I actually would rather have Morse at 1B but I don’t mind putting LaRoche there to start the year and hope he plays well enough to become a trade chip. Ideally, Harper would be ready to come up to the bigs around the all star break at about the same time we deal LaRoche. You plug in Harper in LF and move Morse back to 1B and you’re good to go. The lineup would look like this to start the year:
1.Span-CF
2.LaRoche-1B…….. after trade- Harper takes this spot and plays LF
3.Zimm- 3B
4.Morse-LF……Morse back to 1B after trading LaRoche
5.Werth-RF
6.Espi- 2B
7.Desmond-SS
8.Ramos-C

Rotation of: Strasburg, Zimmerman, (free agent), Lannon, Detwiler/Peacock/Milone
Bullpen: Gorz, Livo, Burnett, Matteus, Clipp, Storen

That’s a team that can compete

by jeffco01 on Sep 21, 2011 4:02 PM EDT up reply actions  

I think the Nats need to strongly consider the possibility

that Morse is having a career year that he will not come close to matching in the future. He is a definite “sell high” candidate.

Rob

-- In baseball we trust.

by RobBobS on Sep 21, 2011 4:25 PM EDT up reply actions  

Definitely something to consider

Very tricky stuff. I’d like to think it was more his breakout year than anything and I would be willing to roll the dice on him as long as he remains under team control. I would rather play him at 1B and see if he really did breakout than spend a sh*t ton of money on Prince Fielder and not have the funds to lock up R Zimm.

by jeffco01 on Sep 21, 2011 4:37 PM EDT up reply actions  

They will have plenty of funds to sign Zimm

They are at ~ $75M right now for 2012, when Zim will be earning $12M ($14M in 2013). If he resigns, it’ll cost the Nats another 3 or 4 million at most. They are well situated to jack their payroll up to ~$100M in the next few years. If they can find a way to dump a significant chunk of LaRoche’s joke of a contract, they could very easily afford $17-$19M on Fielder and still have room to grow in 2013, 2014 and 2015. Then, of course, Werth’s contract starts becoming a bit more of an issue.

Rob

-- In baseball we trust.

by RobBobS on Sep 21, 2011 5:40 PM EDT up reply actions  

"He" who?

Rob

-- In baseball we trust.

by RobBobS on Sep 22, 2011 11:27 AM EDT up reply actions  

Zim.

Aim for the head baby Jesus

by Doncosmic on Sep 22, 2011 5:47 PM EDT up reply actions  

If I were to guess, I figure he'd get ~$16-17M for the contract

Probably backended, so perhaps a couple of $20M seasons.

Rob

-- In baseball we trust.

by RobBobS on Sep 22, 2011 6:11 PM EDT up reply actions  

For what?

I am not sure what you would want in return. We need more offense, and I don’t think teams are going to trade that to get him. I agree he is playing well above expectations and thus we might want to move him, but I question why the expectations were set low. This year and last were the closest thing he has had to full seasons, and both were very solid.

by chubias on Sep 21, 2011 4:54 PM EDT up reply actions  

Any trade obviously depends on what you can get in return

If including Morse in a package that nets a true TOR starter or a true impact player. I’d at least make a phone call concerning Matt Kemp. He is arbitration eligible after this season, a free agent after next season and the Dodgers are in financial difficulties. Moving Morse, a middle infielder to enable the Dodgers to move Jamey Carroll to 2b (and bench Aaron Miles), and one or two good prospects might make it tempting.

by d_c_guy on Sep 21, 2011 5:38 PM EDT up reply actions  

And by "middle infielder" I mean either Desmond or Espinosa

Lombardozzi isn’t going to cut it in the Kemp sweepstakes.

by d_c_guy on Sep 21, 2011 5:39 PM EDT up reply actions  

I'd frown on trading Morse AND a young MI for a player destined for FA after next year

Unless the Nats need Kemp to compete in 2012, which is overly optimistic, in my book, or they have a realistic chance to lock him up.

Rob

-- In baseball we trust.

by RobBobS on Sep 21, 2011 5:44 PM EDT up reply actions  

Which goes back to my original point

that what we need is more guys like Morse. And so I agree that there is a good chance that Morse is at peak value, but the team that we trade him to will be looking for the same things we are looking for and thus not likely to trade us what we need. A top of the rotation pitcher is intriguing but I think most of those are going to be traded to fetch prospects as generally contenders don’t have spare aces. Morse will be 30 next season so I think that the only teams that are going to want him are those that are close to contention in the next two years. What team is saying we can afford to trade away a top pitcher if they want to contend now?

by chubias on Sep 21, 2011 6:22 PM EDT up reply actions  

I agree

Any trade would be contingent on Kemp signing an extension

by d_c_guy on Sep 21, 2011 10:28 PM EDT up reply actions  

Maybe.. but only because of the Dodger's money problems

and even then I would make a longer term deal with Kemp part of the deal. If they can’t get that, then it is not worth it. And I think that might be difficult to do. Don’t get me wrong, I think that Kemp would be awesome, but I don’t see why Kemp wouldn’t just wait for FA. And if so, why give up Morse and an MI for him.

by chubias on Sep 21, 2011 5:56 PM EDT up reply actions  

Oh, I agree

Any trade would be contingent on Kemp signing an extension.

by d_c_guy on Sep 21, 2011 10:29 PM EDT up reply actions  

I'm only considering him if they drop that price severely

It’s funny how that works though. Seemingly the only perfect fit out of every center fielder in the league turns out to have brain damage (exaggerating of course) that’s sidelining him on and off for about two seasons now. We just can’t have it our way

Whats the frequency, Kenneth?

by ZimforPrez on Sep 21, 2011 7:01 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yup, see Cory Koskie and Mike Metheny as recent examples

Brain: "Pinky, are you pondering what i'm pondering?"
Pinky: "Yes, ... wait, ... no, ... never mind"

by jbg2772 on Sep 22, 2011 12:39 PM EDT up reply actions  

also see Church, Ryan

although the probobly sped up what was going to hapen soon anyway

MOAR SEVERINO!

by jeff550 on Sep 22, 2011 4:31 PM EDT up reply actions  

Thats a team..........

That would lead the entire sport in strikouts………

by artistfork on Sep 23, 2011 7:33 AM EDT up reply actions  

But it would be near the top in runs scored as well.

Strikeouts don’t really matter.

Aim for the head baby Jesus

by Doncosmic on Sep 24, 2011 5:57 PM EDT up reply actions  

Cabrera?

Melky Cabrera has .303/ .336/ .472 and he hits at 2
 (sometimes leadoff). Great speed (41 doubles, 5 triples) and decent
 power (18HRs). His fielding is solid .991 fielding percent, only 3
 errors, and a better zone rating than Ankiel. (his range factor is
 significantly lower than Ankiel though). Another bonus is that Melky
 is young; only 27 has a year or two of arbitation left. So he could
 be a long term solution.

We would have to trade to get him, but the Royals might be willing to trade on discount given that they have couple options for replacements in the minors. Including Lorenzo Cain, who was a big part of the Grienke deal. Additionally, the a decent pitching rotation away from contending in the AL Central next year. Once you recover from your laughter, take a look at how explosive their offense has been. I think that we could trade a servicable starter like Lannan to the Royals. Obviously, not our top guys for Cabrera, but we have a host of ‘crafty lefty’ pitchers that seem to be working out.

We could still end up with Strasburg, Zimmerman, Wilson, Wang, Detwiler/Milone. I think Peacock goes back to the minors barring a very solid next start. I am happy that he had several scoreless innings, but he was riding high on the defense given his low K rating.
 

by chubias on Sep 21, 2011 4:11 PM EDT reply actions  

There's a good reason Cabrera has fallen from the Yankees to the Braves to the Royals

He’s not performed well in his career. This year wasn’t terrible, but his career .275/.330/.398 can be matched by folks already in the Nats system (e.g. Bernadina).

No thanks on Melky.

Rob

-- In baseball we trust.

by RobBobS on Sep 21, 2011 4:30 PM EDT up reply actions  

Melky might not be the right choice for us,

but I think it is more likely that Melky holds this years numbers than Bernadina adds .30 to every line in his slash. Over 4 seasons Bernadina is .242/.306/.365, which is about what Melky’s worst season total was. So, no I don’t think Bernadina can match him.

by chubias on Sep 21, 2011 4:37 PM EDT up reply actions  

He's also a below-average defensive CF

Fangraphs has him as a -8.0 UZR/150 as a CF for his career (-5.5 UZR/150 for all OF), -2.4 outfield arm above average in CF (+5.6 for all OF, driven by +6.9 for LF). He’s leading AL CF’ers in assists this year; then again, Soriano was among NL leaders with the Nats.

Brain: "Pinky, are you pondering what i'm pondering?"
Pinky: "Yes, ... wait, ... no, ... never mind"

by jbg2772 on Sep 21, 2011 6:42 PM EDT up reply actions  

A good point

I don’t know enough about the advanced sabermetric stats to quantify whether his fielding is bad enough to disqualify him from consideration. Is -8 UZR truly awful or just not good? I will say is that I would trade some defense for a batter like Cabrera has this year. (high avg., plenty of extra base hits).

by chubias on Sep 22, 2011 9:45 PM EDT up reply actions  

I thought about putting him on here actually

And apparently the Royals don’t know what to do with him right now too, according to MLBTR. For some reason I thought he was alot older than that so I decided against it.

Whats the frequency, Kenneth?

by ZimforPrez on Sep 21, 2011 7:05 PM EDT up reply actions  

And I'm glad you brought up Lannan

Love watching him pitch and love having him here but I feel like there’s a chance he could be dealt. I thought something around Lannan/Bourjos matched well. LAA hasn’t had a lefty in the rotation since the Kazmir debacle and the lefty closest to the majors is Reckling who’s just settling in AA. And now that you mention it, I can see why the Royals would have interest too. Overall I think there’s more options than we think. Like at the deadline, it looked like Span vs. Upton but I think there’s a case to be made for at least 2-3 more guys

Whats the frequency, Kenneth?

by ZimforPrez on Sep 21, 2011 7:33 PM EDT up reply actions  

Well they have about 6 outfielders

Bourjos and Trout are the only ones that can be moved. And Mike Trout is Mike Trout so they should be open to a Bourjos deal. Imagine ‘should’ in italics since the italics button doesn’t like me.

Whats the frequency, Kenneth?

by ZimforPrez on Sep 22, 2011 5:40 PM EDT up reply actions  

Could be value there.

I think the trade tilts slightly in our favor, but not so much that it couldn’t get done. The Angels will certainly be looking for some pitching. They probably don’t need $100MM pitching though as they have a solid 3 of 4. Lannan might actually be a good fit for them. He has 3 healthy seasons of good, not great pitching. I would not be excited to see him leave, but with both Milone and Detwieler projecting similar, and quality FA pitching being generally scarce, I could see getting more than we should for him. Also, Bourjos is still young enought that this year could be an abberation.

by chubias on Sep 22, 2011 10:12 PM EDT up reply actions  

Nice work, good discussion. Rec'd

And bless you for not assuming that the Nationals are going to get Brett Gardner :-)

by d_c_guy on Sep 21, 2011 10:30 PM EDT reply actions  

Haha

Tried to keep it within reason

Whats the frequency, Kenneth?

by ZimforPrez on Sep 22, 2011 1:02 AM EDT up reply actions  

Coco Crisp

Is a free agent next year.

by HG_VA on Sep 24, 2011 11:33 AM EDT reply actions  

I think we swhould sign Crisp next year

better than trading what it would take to get Upton, or Span, and Crisp can hit leadoff

MOAR SEVERINO!

by jeff550 on Sep 24, 2011 12:10 PM EDT up reply actions  

I don't think it would be a bad idea at all

But I believe Rizzo has said that he wants younger guys so I tried to keep older guys off the list. But I would certainly keep him in mind because you know what you’re going to get. He’s one of those few guys that puts up the exact same numbers every year. I admit, if I put Sizemore on here I probably should have mentioned Crisp

Whats the frequency, Kenneth?

by ZimforPrez on Sep 24, 2011 12:38 PM EDT up reply actions  

I would only want his short term

I just dont belive there our any young guys out there that are worth giving up our young guys to get. I think he we get Wilson, Crisp, some infield depth(would Infante take a backup role?), and some guys who outfielders who could pinch hit, we could be in the playoff race next year.

MOAR SEVERINO!

by jeff550 on Sep 24, 2011 5:19 PM EDT up reply actions  

I'm lukewarm on this.

Downside
-Crisp probably wouldn’t be a bust, but he hasn’t exactly been a star either.
-I doubt that his batting average is going to increase in the NL East pitching.
-He will be 32 next year, but you’ll never know how his decline will come.

On the upside:
-It would be a good thing to have at least some players outside the core age range, so that the team doesn’t face a season where they lose 5 or 6 key players to FA.
- No trade cost means they might be able to make other trades.

I think the real problem here is that we have limited space to really make moves unless we move one of the young core. We need another impact bat and I don’t think that Crisp is really going to do that. I don’t think of us as the team with a few great pieces and a couple big holes. Instead, I see us as the team with too many above average players and not enough super stars. This isn’t to say that we don’t have super stars, just that I think that we should try to focus on filling CF with a bona-fide all-star bat. However, if signing Crisp meant that we were able to bring a super star somewhere else, then I wouldn’t complain.

by chubias on Sep 26, 2011 12:01 PM EDT up reply actions  

Andrew McCutchen?

Yes…..it would take a lot to get him, maybe much more than what we should even consider. But the Pirates WILL need a catcher next season…..so that would be ONE piece we could add to that puzzle. Phil Wood mentioned that it would likely take 5 players to get him, IF Pitt would even consider that. He would be a perfect fit for the Nationals though…..too bad it wasn’t HIM in the trade when we got Nyjer!

"Integrity First, Service Before Self, Excellence In All We Do" - USAF Core Values

by sullyzz on Sep 25, 2011 7:20 PM EDT reply actions  

McCutchen is definitely the best of the batch

but I seriously doubt it happening. He’s the cornerstone to Pittsburgh’s improvement, and, if he’s traded, Coonelly et al., would be hung. And not in effigy.
IF he is traded, McCutchen would require a trade similar to or beyod the proposed Greinke one: Zimmermann, Desmond, probably Ramos, and two prospects.

Brain: "Pinky, are you pondering what i'm pondering?"
Pinky: "Yes, ... wait, ... no, ... never mind"

by jbg2772 on Sep 25, 2011 8:07 PM EDT up reply actions  

I would never trade Jzim, Desi, Ramos for McCutchen

why would you create 3 holes to fill one. I would proboly do Lannan, Norris, Cole, and Peacock for him, but dont know if the Pirates would do it

MOAR SEVERINO!

by jeff550 on Sep 25, 2011 8:40 PM EDT up reply actions  

Neither would I

That’s just what I think it would take. #4 starter, questionable-defense catching prospect, and 2 MiL pitching prospects probably wouldn’t do it…

Brain: "Pinky, are you pondering what i'm pondering?"
Pinky: "Yes, ... wait, ... no, ... never mind"

by jbg2772 on Sep 25, 2011 9:04 PM EDT up reply actions  

I dont think the PIrates would take that

nor should they. RobBobS wins this discucion

MOAR SEVERINO!

by jeff550 on Sep 27, 2011 4:11 PM EDT up reply actions  

This is more an uncutchen

since we like him, but can’t get him…

Brain: "Pinky, are you pondering what i'm pondering?"
Pinky: "Yes, ... wait, ... no, ... never mind"

by jbg2772 on Sep 27, 2011 6:32 PM EDT up reply actions  

No one.......

Is trading JZIMM and Ramos for McCutcheon. Pittsburg knows this.

by artistfork on Sep 26, 2011 11:09 AM EDT up reply actions  

Well, they aren't going to take the pu-pu platter of grade D prospects

McCutchen should have been an all-star this year. He’s arguably one of the top CF in the NL, if not all of baseball.
I’m not advocating trading Zimmermann, Ramos, et al.; I’m just saying that is what it I think would take.

Brain: "Pinky, are you pondering what i'm pondering?"
Pinky: "Yes, ... wait, ... no, ... never mind"

by jbg2772 on Sep 26, 2011 1:03 PM EDT up reply actions  

In other words

McCutcheon is going nowhere. Moving on.

Rob

-- In baseball we trust.

by RobBobS on Sep 26, 2011 3:04 PM EDT up reply actions   2 recs

Word.

Brain: "Pinky, are you pondering what i'm pondering?"
Pinky: "Yes, ... wait, ... no, ... never mind"

by jbg2772 on Sep 26, 2011 7:09 PM EDT up reply actions  

^This

"If you ain't got the pants, you ain't got a chance." --PerryMason (on the sartorial component of being a Real Ballplayer)

by Doghouse on Sep 26, 2011 11:37 PM EDT up reply actions  

He WAS an all-star

after like 4 injuries of course.

And yeah, Cutch would take a lot to move since he hasn’t even hit arbitration yet. He won’t extend without testing FA so I’m open to it, but it’s probably not worth it for either side for 2 more years at least. Plus PNC would be burnt down.

by Mr. E on Oct 1, 2011 5:43 PM EDT up reply actions  

since we're speculating

I’ll take the BJ Upton option. In fact, my perfect Nats off-season would be: trade Desmond or Lombardozzi + Flores + ? for Upton and stick him at center. Then re-sign Pudge for back-up catcher and re-sign Zimm. If the price is right, go after Reyes too as he could be your leadoff, reducing offensive pressure on Upton, and whoever doesn’t get traded Desmond or Lombardozzi can then be your bench IF.

IF all the above goes right;
1. Reyes – SS
2. Upton – CF
3. Zimmerman – 3B
*4. LaRoche / Morse – 1B
5. Werth – RF
*6. Morse / Bernadina – LF
7. Espinosa – 2B
8. Ramos – C (Pudge back-up)

*The 4/6 slot are interchangeable depending on who’s hotter between Morse and LaRoche. Which could also change IF we trade LaRoche and/or call up Harper. IF Harper gets called up at the ASG break, he would play LF and hit in the #6 slot until he gets comfortable. Then he could be #2, depending on how Upton is doing who could slide into #6.

That’s a very flexible team with a strong bench around $100m. I’d expect playoff contention.

"If you want money, go to the bank. If you want bread, go to the bakery. If you want goals, go to the net." - Brooks Laich

by bigity b on Oct 3, 2011 2:46 PM EDT reply actions  

I actually like your idea very much….that is a formidable lineup. The only concern I’d have, if the Nats actually did this, would be, who would play SS when Reyes is on the DL for several weeks a season? Reyes is obviously very talented, but his history with injury is frightening.

"Integrity First, Service Before Self, Excellence In All We Do" - USAF Core Values

by sullyzz on Oct 4, 2011 10:31 AM EDT up reply actions  

Either espinosa, with Lombardozi at 2nd, or Desmond, depending on who was traded. Short term I love this idea, but I think the years necessary to get Reyes could be a serious problem with his injury history.

Aim for the head baby Jesus

by Doncosmic on Oct 4, 2011 1:07 PM EDT up reply actions  

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