Nats 2011: 2000s As or 1990s Mets?
by mason_beer on Sep 28, 2011 8:41 PM EDT
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PrintComparison have been made over and over between Stephen Strasburg and previous pitching phenoms like Kerry Wood and Steve Avery. But as this season has closed, I saw at the end of the year a coalescing of three young starting pitchers for the Nationals that will dictate their future. Its not just Stephen Strasburg but . . . but Strasburg, Jordan Zimmermann, and Ross Detwiler. The Nats seem to have everything in place right now . . . hitting, defense, and especially their bullpen. At times in the last two years, all three of these guys have shown flashes of true brilliance - which made me thought of two teams. The early 2000s A's and the mid-90s Mets. Why? Because its a tale of what to do and what not to do with a group of amazing young arms. The A's nurtured Mark Mulder, Tim Hudson, and Barry Zito to lead those Moneyball teams constantly into the post-season. The Mets future of Jason Isringhausen, Bill Pulsipher, and Paul Wilson fizzled before it could start - only Isringhausen has had a career of note, converting into a effective reliever and winning a World Series with St. Louis in 2006.
I'm not an expert on why one worked and one didn't, but I would hope MIke Rizzo takes a good look into why. I like what the Nationals have done all around and I expect them to round-out the power and lead-off spots through free agency. There will be a lot of pressure on these three to finally come through for DC next year for an entire season. Strasburg will be the key, the superstar and face of the franchise. But he needs help . . . and with probably Chein-Ming Wang and John Lannan being the only two starters behind them (if they can resign CMW).
This should be the only question Mike Rizzo asks Davey Johnson in his "job interview." Starting pitching.
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Agreed; there are no guarantees at this point
Injuries happen, and performance can fluctuate. And it’s almost a crime at this point to put Detwiler in the Strasburg/Zimmermann/Muldur/Hudson/Zito range – he’s had a couple of good games at this point.
Still, I’m hoping that instead of the “Core Four” of the Yankees (Jeter, Rivera, Pettitte, Posada), that the Nationals end up with a much larger but just as effective “Core [X]” that includes the three pitchers, Zimmerman, Morse, Harper, Werth, Storen, Ramos and Espinosa. And perhaps even some of the prospects from the group of Rendon, Lombardozzi, Peacock, Cole, Purke, Milone, Rosenbaum, Solis, Meyer, and Norris will become “core” players as well. Pretty exciting stuff, really; I guess we’ll just have to see how it all turns out.
To quote the noted philosopher Inigo Montoya: “I hate waiting.”
Only guy I can't see in the "core":
Mike Morse. Love him. He’s old. I don’t foresee it, but it could all come crashing down very quickly for him at a time we least expect it.
Rob
-- In baseball we trust.
You mean like Dunn?
Sorry, I couldn’t resist.
Brain: "Pinky, are you pondering what i'm pondering?"
Pinky: "Yes, ... wait, ... no, ... never mind"
Yes, well, I admit.
Like Dunn.
Well, OK, nobody will EVER match Dunn’s belly flop this year. That was historic. Like the Braves/RedSox.
Rob
-- In baseball we trust.
But not official
See Al Yellon’s post on the baseball page.
Brain: "Pinky, are you pondering what i'm pondering?"
Pinky: "Yes, ... wait, ... no, ... never mind"
The difference is
the Yankees “Core Four” all came up about the same time (1995-1996), and are within a couple of years of each other. This list ranges from a teenager (Harper) through a 30-something (Werth).
Brain: "Pinky, are you pondering what i'm pondering?"
Pinky: "Yes, ... wait, ... no, ... never mind"
Well, Werth and Morse are the outliers
The rest of them are pretty close in age except for Harper (and Cole, for that matter). Werth is going to be here another six years, so he had better be a core player. I’m not looking for everyone to play together the better part of 15 years the way the Yankee Core Four did.
And of course I’m not caught up in the idea that all these guys are going to be here for years – that’s not the way baseball works. The idea is to put good short term pieces in around the core. Yes, Jeter has won five rings so far. At third base were Charlie Hayes, Wade Boggs, Scott Brosius (twice) and Alex Rodriguez. Change is constant. But the more talent, the better :-)
Not quite sure what you mean by "nurtured"
You say the A’s nurtured Mulder, Zito, and Hudson. What do you mean?
I would normally think of “nurturing” as bringing up slowly, carefully, not overworking. But looking at IPs, for all three, they were annually well over 200 IP:
2001: Hudson 235; Mulder 229; Zito 214
2002: Hudson 238.1; Mulder 207.1; Zito 229.1
….and so on. If anything, it seems one could make the case they were overworking them, based on IP. So in what way do you mean they were nurtured?
If you don't eat your meat, you can't have any pudding! How can you have any pudding if you don't eat your meat?!
That's only overworking depending on what they threw in 1999 and 2000
If they’d established themselves as 200IP guys, or slowly ramped up to it, then it can’t really be considered overwork.
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