The Washington Nationals, Ryan Zimmerman And The Return Of The "Extend-Zim" Chatter.
The "Extend Ryan Zimmerman Movement" (hashtag #extendZim*) made its way onto the pages of Yahoo!Sports.com's Big League Stew, with Kevin Kaduk (aka 'Duk) discussing the conversation that's come up once again after the Washington Nationals announced what is reportedly a 5-year/$42 million dollar extension with newly-acquired left-hander Gio Gonzalez on Sunday afternoon. Zimmerman, the Nats' 3rd baseman and first 1st Round pick, is heading into the next-to-last year of the 5-year/$45 million dollar extension the then-24-year-old signed in April 2009. The '05 1st Round pick, taken with the 4th overall selection in the franchise's first draft following their relocation from Montreal, was coming off a .283/.333/.442 2008 season in which the 4th-year pro had 24 doubles and 14 HR's in 106 games and 466 plate appearances and was in the midst of what would end up being a 30-game hit streak when he signed the five-year extension in early '09. Zimmerman had missed 48 games in '08 recovering from a small labrum tear in his left shoulder...
Nats' GM Mike Rizzo, who'd taken over for Jim Bowden just weeks earlier, referred to Zimmerman as the face of the franchise before the deal was officially announced back in 2009, telling MLB.com's Bill Ladson in an article entitled, "Nats, Zimmerman agree to extension", that the third baseman, "... is a vital part of the franchise, both as the face of the franchise and one of its star players." After hitting for a combined .299/.375/.518 line in 2009-10 with 69 doubles and 58 HR's in 299 games and 1,296 PA's, winning a Gold Glove and Silver Slugger award in '09 and Silver Slugger in 2010 in seasons he finished at +7.3 and +7.2 fWAR, respectively, Zimmerman was asked about signing an extension during the beginning of Spring Training in 2011.
Zimmerman said at the time, as quoted by Washington Post writer Adam Kilgore in an article entitled, "Ryan Zimmerman wants to keep calling Washington home, but the Nationals will have to make it happen", that he would like to sign on long-term in D.C., provided he thought the team was headed in the right direction, which he did, sooner than others thought he explained, and provided an extension happened before he headed into the final year of his current contract in 2013. "If you get to two years left [before] free agency, you can talk," the bland-by-design 26-year-old infielder told reporters, "'But if nothing works out, if you have one year before free agency, you might as well play your year out and see what happens.'"
Thus the urgency on the part of Nationals fans to see a deal done before the 2012 season starts, since Zimmerman has previously expressed a desire to avoid negotiating during the season. In mid-November 2011, D.C. GM Mike Rizzo told reporters that the team had already, "... initiated talks about a contract extension," as FOXSports.com's Ken Rosenthal wrote in an 11/16/11 article in which he quoted the Nats' general manager saying, "'It’s important to us. We’ve already begun preliminary discussions with his people. He’s an important piece for us, a guy that we would like to have here long-term.'"
As Yahoo!Sports.com's 'Duk noted this afternoon, however, the torn abdominal muscle Zimmerman suffered last season, which eventually required surgery and limited the seven-year veteran to 101 games and 404 plate appearances, "... has complicated things a bit,":
"That injury was just bad medical luck, but I'm guessing the injury delayed Zimmerman's dreams of landing a Troy Tulowitzki- or Ryan Braun-type contract this early in the process (especially when there were/are other trophies to be bagged)."
Tulowitzki, the Rockies' shortstop, and the 7th overall pick in the '05 Draft, was 26, in the third year of a 6-year/$31 million dollar extension and coming off a .315/.381/.568 Gold Glove and Silver Slugger-worthy 2010 season in which he'd hit 32 doubles and 27 HR's in 122 games and 529 plate appearances and was worth +6.5 fWAR when he signed an extension of his extension which left the shortstop with a 10-year/$157.75 million dollar deal that will keep him Colorado through 2020. Braun, the 5th overall pick in '05 by the Brewers, was 27 and in the fourth year of an 8-year/$45 million dollar deal when he and Milwaukee agreed last April on a 5-year/$105 million dollar extension which covers the 2016-2020 seasons with an option for 2021. Braun was coming off a .304/.365/.501 2010 campain in which he hit 45 doubles and 25 HR's and finished the year at +4.4 fWAR.
Zimmerman finished the 2011 season at +2.5 fWAR, with a .289/.355/.479 line, 21 doubles and 12 HR's in 101 games and 440 plate appearances, numbers in line with career norms had he played a full season, but he once again missed time with an injury and endured some questions/criticism for the aesthetic damage he did as he worked out some issues with revamped throwing mechanics he believed would benefit him as a professional with plans for a long career at third base. In the end, Yahoo!Sports.com's 'Duk wonders if Zimmerman might not be better off waiting to see how some of the other rumored moves this winter work out.
"[Zimmerman's] leverage could really be bolstered if Fielder decides to sign elsewhere," 'Duk writes, referring to the rumors which have Prince Fielder considering D.C., "and GM Mike Rizzo catches a glance of the upcoming free agent fields, which are relatively thin on star power." Or Zimmerman's leverage could be bolstered if the Nats do sign Fielder (though much like the current Fielder vs Josh Hamilton chatter, some wonder whether the Rangers/Nationals can afford both players) and Zimmerman has another two years like his 2009 and '10 campaigns, aka the last time he was hitting in front of a big middle of the order bat. The Nats might want to lock Zimmerman up long-term before he prices himself out of D.C. with a full-year hitting in the lineup Washington would have with Fielder's bat in the nation's capital. (ed. note - "Zimmerman will, of course get paid for what he's done his whole career, not just for the last season, but the idea of 'leverage' is what's being discussed here.")
The player wants to sign and stay in one place, at third in Nationals Park as long as possible. The Nationals, publicly, through their GM, have said they too are interested in getting an extension done. Nats' skipper Davey Johnson, after watching Zimmerman hit a walk-off grand slam to beat the Phillies on August 19th pretty much summed up how all of NatsTown thinks of the face of the Nats' franchise. "'He's one of those great players that's totally in control in those tough situations," Johnson said, "He's very calm. The rest of us get a little excited, but he doesn't." Zim's clutch. Though we all know "clutch" doesn't really exist. #extendZim.
• LINKS: Can/Will/Should the Nationals make the Mr. National a National for life?:
• "Well, if they wind up signing Fielder for $150 million-plus, the prospects of keeping Zimmerman in D.C. diminish by a significant amount..." - "Addressing the Fielder rumors" - Mark Zuckerman, NatsInsider.com
• "The Nationals, if they’re inclined, do not have to choose between Ryan Zimmerman and Prince Fielder." - "For the Nationals, Prince Fielder or Ryan Zimmerman is only a choice if they make it one" - Adam Kilgore, Nationals Journal - The Washington Post
• "But what about that other guy, Ryan Zimmerman? Where does the (former?) Face of the Franchise fit in in Mike Rizzo's Phase 2?" - "What about Zim?" - Nats Enquirer
• (ed. note - " * = this hashtag isn't really out there.")
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Yeah...#ExtendZim!
They can’t lose The FOF.
"player development" should not be gladiator games. by cat daddy3000 on Aug 6, 2011
by MissB on Jan 17, 2012 9:54 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
Yes!!!...................#ExtendZim!!!
and if there are Lerner bucks leftover, off a Dunn deal to Fielder….(2 years, $20mil)
"...I don't want to go watch American League baseball." -Lance Berkman....
I wanna watch the "... tape-measure-testing, laser-throwing, eyeblack-oozing baseball cyborg."
by cat daddy3000 on Jan 17, 2012 12:35 PM EST up reply actions
Boras laughs and SNEERS at your leetle offer
for his Round Prince.
Heh.
"player development" should not be gladiator games. by cat daddy3000 on Aug 6, 2011
by MissB on Jan 17, 2012 2:49 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Zim's a big reason why I love this team...
Extend Zim Rizzo or face a revolt. I’m polishing up my pitchfork.
I’d love to see Zim extended but I can certainly understand the worries over injuries since he’s the Mike Green of the Nationals (or is Mike Green the Zimmerman of the Capitals?).
"Just the fact that I knew something was bad, I knew it was probably broken, I knew I'd have to miss some time--that makes me upset more than anything."
Ryan Zimmerman rides a Vespa scooter? Wait, now I'm really confused...
Vivian Jaffe: "Have you ever transcended space and time?"
Albert Markovski: "Yes. No. Uh, time, not space... No, I don't know what you're talking about."
by Patrick Reddington on Jan 17, 2012 9:56 AM EST up reply actions
No, Mike Green = Nick Johnson
Key offensive performer, solid defender, check. Fluke injuries, check. Takes longer than expected to recover, check.
"Things are going great, and they're only gettin' better..." Timbuk3
How long of a deal?
Is Zimm looking for a shorter deal like 3-5 years or something more like a 8-10 year thing?
No word terms being discussed...
Lot of speculation about what he could get of course, but that’s all…
Vivian Jaffe: "Have you ever transcended space and time?"
Albert Markovski: "Yes. No. Uh, time, not space... No, I don't know what you're talking about."
by Patrick Reddington on Jan 17, 2012 10:26 AM EST up reply actions
RZimm's value for an extension is probably in the $15-$18M/yr range
I think if Rizzo has a couple of sit-downs with Ryan & his agent this spring, they’ll get a deal roughed out & get it signed sometime between OD and the All-Star break. Length of contract TBD.
"Things are going great, and they're only gettin' better..." Timbuk3
Being the contrarian of the group
I would just like to offer the notion that the more the fan base clamors for an extension of Zimm just because he’s the “face of the franchise”, the more Zimm’s people will demand in negotiations, which will lead, perversely, to a diminished chance that they will extend him. Furthermore, I would like to suggest that Zimm was given the moniker “FoF” back in the days when he was really the only player on the team worth a damn. The new-look Nats could potentially feature five players in 2012 that could put up 5-WAR seasons, so Zimm is hardly alone any longer.
Rob
--"Well my days of not taking you seriously are certainly coming to a middle." -- Mal Reynolds
Not at all.
But I will assert that the days of “sign him, he’s all we’ve got” are over. This allows the Nats to take a less-emotionally charged argument and to discuss on rational terms what exactly he’s worth.
Rob
--"Well my days of not taking you seriously are certainly coming to a middle." -- Mal Reynolds
So you're going to "Sign him if the price isn't completely unreasonable?"
I’m in the “Sign him if the price is actually reasonable”
"I just want to tell you both good luck. We're all counting on you."
-Leslie Nielsen, Airplane
I don't know that any has endorsed a "sign him, he's all we've got" stance.
I think there is plenty of room for emotion on both sides of the table. No other fandom will love Zim like we do. I mean he’s a friggen picture book story: local kid, first 1 number pick for a “new” team, bats 3rd. His charitable efforts to raise money to fight MS are important to those of us in that community, though wholly unrelated to baseball. That being said I don’t think anyone has volunteered 10 years/ $300 million kind of crazy.
#extendZim
No, nobody's mentioned those kind of numbers,
including (I’m sure) Zimmerman’s own people. My point is that management should not feel cornered into ‘pay him whatever it takes’ because he’s such a fan favorite.
“Local kid”? Really? It takes me four hours to drive to Virginia Beach, which is more or less his hometown as far as I know.
Rob
--"Well my days of not taking you seriously are certainly coming to a middle." -- Mal Reynolds
It's more the UVA thing, there is a huge network of UVA grads in Northern Virginia,
and several of them have a lot of money. From Ryan’s side, he came here straight from college, Arlington is his home now, and he has never lived outside of Virginia.
Aim for the head baby Jesus
I don't blame either party for having reasons to hesitate approaching an extension right now
The Nationals are understandably hesitant to commit major cash/years to a player that has had trouble staying on the field two of the last four seasons. And Zimmerman is understandably reluctant to sign a major deal coming off one of his less productive years.
Two more:
@NationalsPR: #Nationals agree to terms w/ RHP Jordan Zimmermann & LHP Tom Gorzelanny on 2012 contracts, thus avoiding salary arbitration.
Vivian Jaffe: "Have you ever transcended space and time?"
Albert Markovski: "Yes. No. Uh, time, not space... No, I don't know what you're talking about."
by Patrick Reddington on Jan 17, 2012 11:07 AM EST via mobile reply actions
ExtendZim
The Nationals have to keep Zimmerman in a Nationals jersey. Teach Rendon how to play second, move espinosa to short (his natural position). Even without Fielder (replace him with a serviceable first baseman) this would be one of the best infields in the league, both offensively and defensively.
Montee Ball for Heisman 2012
What are you doing with Desmond then?
(I hate to ask).
Rob
--"Well my days of not taking you seriously are certainly coming to a middle." -- Mal Reynolds
Teach him to play CF?
Although if we’re going to pick one, let’s wait until Rendin actually shows us something un the minors and Espi’s had another turn through the league. We might rank them differently this time next year.
Mon pauvre vieux, les empires s'écroulent, les républiques s'effondrent et les imbéciles demeurent.
by Doghouse on Jan 17, 2012 1:11 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
while we're at it, how about giving Desmond a season batting in the same lineup order
with an unchanging role under a single manager and see how he does….
"...I don't want to go watch American League baseball." -Lance Berkman....
I wanna watch the "... tape-measure-testing, laser-throwing, eyeblack-oozing baseball cyborg."
by cat daddy3000 on Jan 17, 2012 1:43 PM EST up reply actions
I do agree with that
having a manager who was a successful middle infielder during his playing days can only help Desmond and Espinosa develop. At least Desmond’s defense was better last year.
Montee Ball for Heisman 2012
I hadn't thought of Davey being an influence that way, but of course...
"...I don't want to go watch American League baseball." -Lance Berkman....
I wanna watch the "... tape-measure-testing, laser-throwing, eyeblack-oozing baseball cyborg."
by cat daddy3000 on Jan 17, 2012 8:43 PM EST up reply actions
ZIMM?
“Desmond is a horrible baseball player”………..
Zimm is going to have to finish the 2012 season without a long DL stint AND-AND Hit 25 diggers…………then he’ll get his 20mil deal………..
Desmond is far from a horrible baseball player.
I think he’ll earn the leadoff spot this season, though he may be destined to be a very very good utility player in 2013 to make room for Rendon. Of course if Espinosa’s power the first half of last season was a fluke then he may end up as the utility player.
Aim for the head baby Jesus
Needless to say
The jury is still out.
Desmond (and Espinoza) have a way(s) to go, but to call either “horrible” at this point in their career is “Atristforkian”.
by PerryMason on Jan 18, 2012 10:33 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
"Needless to say"..................
But…………………maybe……………………needs to be said after all……………………
Since some people………………………..(I’m not naming names)………………seem to have reached a conclusion…………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………….
If you don't eat your meat, you can't have any pudding! How can you have any pudding if you don't eat your meat?!
To be real
Zimmerman is a full two years away from Free Agency (2014). So why sign it with two years left on a contract of a injury riddled player. Long-term contracts are incredibly risky, and the overwhelmingly long-term contracts do not pan out in favor of a club. So why sign him now, you are basically just drastically increasing the risk for the club.
With all that said you should think they would want to resign him, but if he wants (lets say) 7 years, thats really a 9 year contract from today. NINE YEARS! How did that turn out for Mauer in Minnesota? Mark Teixiera has even been failing to live up to his contract. Manny Ramirez wasn’t worth his contract.
You guys. You lollygag the ball around the infield. You lollygag your way down to first. You lollygag in and out of the dugout. You know what that makes you? Larry!
It's so rare when a player actually earns his long term contract that I tend to remember those as the outliers
I can think of two right away, though: Jeter’s first big contract (10 years) and Mike Mussina, both for the Yankees. Of course, the Yankees have had their share of true stinkers, too.
A friend of mine did an analysis for an MLB team while he was getting his MBA at Haas
And he found that contracts of 3 years or more only very rarely work out. The extreme majority of these contracts don’t work out.
You guys. You lollygag the ball around the infield. You lollygag your way down to first. You lollygag in and out of the dugout. You know what that makes you? Larry!
with that said
Zimmerman is an exceptional player because his ability to be an +WAR offensively and defensively at a premium position.
You guys. You lollygag the ball around the infield. You lollygag your way down to first. You lollygag in and out of the dugout. You know what that makes you? Larry!
And for whatever reason
everyone talks about moving Zimmerman OFF of 3rd base. he has a gold glove. I know his throwing wasn’t great but it has improved drastically (though ugly). his UZR rating since 2008 is 3rd amongst all 3rd baseman and probably would be fighting for the top billing if not for his injury mangled 2011.
You guys. You lollygag the ball around the infield. You lollygag your way down to first. You lollygag in and out of the dugout. You know what that makes you? Larry!
Tops in NL mind you
You guys. You lollygag the ball around the infield. You lollygag your way down to first. You lollygag in and out of the dugout. You know what that makes you? Larry!
Longoria and who in the AL?
"I just want to tell you both good luck. We're all counting on you."
-Leslie Nielsen, Airplane
The Gold Glove winner - Adrian Beltre
You guys. You lollygag the ball around the infield. You lollygag your way down to first. You lollygag in and out of the dugout. You know what that makes you? Larry!
The reason you sign him now, is so that you can afford him later. See e.g., Evan Longoria.
Esstentially, the Nationals will get a discount on free agent prices of Zimmerman, by asorbing the liabilty that he might not produce or will be injured. Yes, there is risk. Any player could be injured. Mauer had been in great health before the 2011. So, unless you want the Nationals to just stop signing top tier talent on focus only on the draft, then I don’t understand your point.
#extendZim
The point is you can look at a number of players
Yes, Longoria worked out. Thats an exception to the rule. Imagine if the Rangers had signed Hank Blalock to a long-term contract.
You guys. You lollygag the ball around the infield. You lollygag your way down to first. You lollygag in and out of the dugout. You know what that makes you? Larry!
Remember the Orioles and Albert Belle!
"I just want to tell you both good luck. We're all counting on you."
-Leslie Nielsen, Airplane
And look at how terrible Sabathia, Jeter, and Pujols all did.
Boy are we lucky that we dodged those bullets!
Obviously, there are bad contracts in baseball. There are careers that are cut short by injury. However, unless the Nationals are going to adopt the Tampa Bay model and never sign prime free agents, you should get used to the idea that each signing brings a risk.
#extendZim
Tampa Bay has done it once successfully.
Matt Moore is TBD. And you throw out potentially 3 HOF’s as examples.
You guys. You lollygag the ball around the infield. You lollygag your way down to first. You lollygag in and out of the dugout. You know what that makes you? Larry!
I wasn't talking about Tampa Bay's extension.
I was more focuesed on the fact that few players stay with the team for more than 4 or 5 years, because they get traded early in arbitration.
And yes, I think Ryan Zimmerman has HOF potential.
I am not saying that we should offer Pujols money to Zimm. However, the longer we wait, the more expensive Zimm will become, and the more likely we won’t be able to sign him (or that we will sign him for too much).
#extendZim
ZIMM...........
Should have been extended a year ago…………Of course then he misses 40 games in 2011……….
Resigning ZIMM is a another major reason to Limit any PRINCE deal, length wise…………….
HOF.........
He’s really going to have to pick up the pace. 08 and 11 and you figure one more season is really goin gto hurt him………..
It would also help if he became a “perenial” gold glover……….
This is Zimmerman's age-27 season, and he's playing on the best team he ever has.
Look for something big in 2012.
#extendZim
Yea, he needs to put up a really big year this year to get back to being the player we have always expected him to be.
Of course if he stays healthy I have no doubt he can do it.
Aim for the head baby Jesus
And you can only afford him later
if he produces and continues to be a top MLB player. any lost contract is not affordable.
You guys. You lollygag the ball around the infield. You lollygag your way down to first. You lollygag in and out of the dugout. You know what that makes you? Larry!
I am saying there shouldn't be a hurry to lock this guy in for 8-10 years
he has two years left on his current contract and we don’t know what he is asking for in terms of salary or years.
I am not in favor of 7-10 year contracts. 6 is alot, but its through Zimm’s prime.
You guys. You lollygag the ball around the infield. You lollygag your way down to first. You lollygag in and out of the dugout. You know what that makes you? Larry!
I mean the guy will be 28 at the end of this contract
we ready to sign him through age 36?
You guys. You lollygag the ball around the infield. You lollygag your way down to first. You lollygag in and out of the dugout. You know what that makes you? Larry!
Depending on the cost, absolutely. If we can sign him for an AAV of $15, then I would.
Besides an extentsion could void his current contract if the sides agreed to do that.
#extendZim
You talk now
because Zimmerman has stated (cited in Patrick’s post) that, if you get to the off-season before your last year of the contract, you may as well wait and see what the market has to offer. Sign an extension now = bidding against yourself. Wait = bidding against the field.
Brain: "Pinky, are you pondering what i'm pondering?"
Pinky: "Yes, ... wait, ... no, ... never mind"
they need a DH not a catcher. they have a pretty good catcher already.
You guys. You lollygag the ball around the infield. You lollygag your way down to first. You lollygag in and out of the dugout. You know what that makes you? Larry!

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