Washington Nationals Reportedly Sign RHP Edwin Jackson; John Lannan Trade Rumors Swirl.
by Patrick Reddington on Feb 2, 2012 2:03 PM EST
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• UPDATE - 2:20 pm EST - Making it official: @NationalPR: "#Nationals have agreed to terms with RHP Edwin Jackson on a one-year contract, pending a physical."
What began as a pretty good day for 27-year-old Washington Nationals' lefty John Lannan, (he lost his arbitration case against the Nats but will make $5M this year after earning $2.75M in 2011), took a dramatic turn shortly thereafter as FOXSports.com's Ken Rosenthal and Jon Morosi reported this afternoon that the Washington Nationals are "aggressively shopping" Lannan, "... with the goal of signing free-agent right-hander Edwin Jackson to a one-year contract." MLB.com's Bill Ladson (@washingnats) chimed in on the Twitter, writing that, "The #Nats are hoping to trade LHP John Lannan for a position player, maybe a center fielder." After mentioning free agent right-hander Roy Oswalt as a potential target for Washington in the initial reports, FOXSports.com's Mr. Rosenthal (@Ken_Rosenthal) followed up on Twitter by writing that sources were telling him the, "... #Nationals' target is E. Jackson, not Oswalt. Move hinges on whether they can trade Lannan."
Whether or not they'll eventually deal Lannan, CBSSports.com's Jon Heyman (@JonHeymanCBS) is now reporting that the Nationals and Edwin Jackson are in agreement on a deal pending a physical:
@JonHeymanCBS: "edwin jackson in agreement with #nationals on deal. (he was seen in airport for physical)."
@JonHeymanCBS: "edwin jackson deal is obvs pending physical. since thats what he was in wash for. $ is not known."
Reports so far say that the Nationals and Jackson have agreed a one-year deal. More info when it's available...
Washington Times' writer Amanda Comak (@acomack) wrote after confirming that a deal with Jackson is in place pending a physical that no deal with Lannan is imminent in spite of the speculation.
Lannan, an 11th Round pick out of Siena College in 2005, was (10-13) in 2011, his fifth major league season, posting a career low 3.70 ERA, 4.28 FIP, 76 BB (3.70 BB/9) and 106 K's (5.17 K/9) in 33 starts and 184.2 IP. Lannan's (38-51) with a 4.00 ERA in his career, a 4.61 career FIP, 282 walks (3.38 BB/9) and 393 K's (4.71 K/9) in 128 starts and 751.0 IP since his July 26, 2007 debut.
Jackson, a 28-year-old free agent, hit the pitching market after a (12-9) 2011 season with the Chicago White Sox and World Series-winning St. Louis Cardinals in which he had a 3.79 ERA, 3.55 FIP, 62 walks (2.79 BB/9) and 148 K's (6.67 K/9)in 32 G, 31 GS and 199.2 IP. In his career, he's a .500 pitcher at (60-60) in 203 games and 1079.0 IP over which he's walked 439 (3.66 BB/9) and struck out 801 (6.68 K/9).
FOXSports.com's Mr. Rosenthal (@Ken_Rosenthal) is now writing that Jackson's deal with the Nats is believed to be for, "One-year deal expected to be in $10 million range."
Washington Post writer Adam Kilgore (@AdamKilgoreWP) writes that the Nats will likely head to Spring Training with Lannan and any deal would likely come then...
The Nationals have been tied to Jackson before, with rumors connecting the two when Adam Dunn was being shopped around the league at the 2010 trade deadline. The right-hander was reportedly entertaining several multi-year deals earlier this week, but the idea is that a one-year deal will allow the right-hander who found himself unsigned with ten days before pitchers and catchers report to hit the market again next winter after he's spent the season pitching alongside Stephen Strasburg, Gio Gonzalez, Jordan Zimmermann, Chien-Ming Wang and Ross Detwiler.
Where will John Lannan get dealt? Will another Nats' starter go instead? Does anyone have more value than Lannan? Is there any way Washington keeps all these arms? Did signing EJax before trading Lannan put the Nationals in a position where they have less leverage over teams interested in Lannan?
More when there is more...
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I wonder what Kenny Williams is muttering at this moment?
You guys. You lollygag the ball around the infield. You lollygag your way down to first. You lollygag in and out of the dugout. You know what that makes you? Larry!
K. Williams [mutters]: "[Rizzo points to head.]"
Vivian Jaffe: "Have you ever transcended space and time?"
Albert Markovski: "Yes. No. Uh, time, not space... No, I don't know what you're talking about."
by Patrick Reddington on Feb 2, 2012 2:07 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Spring Training at Thunderdome!
acomak:
W/regard to trade to clear out #nats P staff, which could certainly happen at right $, source notes there’s “no rule” against ST competition
3 pitchers enter, two leave for the bullpen? Or one gets traded!!
#notascatchyastheoriginalthunderdomeslogan
Vivian Jaffe: "Have you ever transcended space and time?"
Albert Markovski: "Yes. No. Uh, time, not space... No, I don't know what you're talking about."
by Patrick Reddington on Feb 2, 2012 2:08 PM EST up reply actions
nathanfenno: Jackson’s fastball averaged 94.5 mph in 2011, 5th-best among qualifying pitchers, & he threw the third-most sliders. #Nats
Stras would have been #1 had he qualified.
You guys. You lollygag the ball around the infield. You lollygag your way down to first. You lollygag in and out of the dugout. You know what that makes you? Larry!
and his Change up
would have put him at 73rd at 89 Mph
You guys. You lollygag the ball around the infield. You lollygag your way down to first. You lollygag in and out of the dugout. You know what that makes you? Larry!
NationalsPR:
#Nationals have agreed to terms with RHP Edwin Jackson on a one-year contract, pending a physical.
LERNERS ARE CHEAP
;)
"I just want to tell you both good luck. We're all counting on you."
-Leslie Nielsen, Airplane
I like This......
I was hoping we would sign Edwin; however, I was opposed to trading for him when we had those opportunities…..especially when the ChiSox wanted Adam Dunn in return. Things are getting very interesting in NatsTown, that’s for sure. I’m sure we still can’t afford what it would take to get a certain OFer from Pitt, but what about an Adam Jones?
Sure would like to have him but...
Jones is their (Orioles) one huge trade piece. It is common knowledge that 5 tool cf’s come at one of the highest premiums of any position in the game, so while I would LOVE to see him patrolling center, I don’t wanna have to give up any of our big league ready pos. players right now (b/c thats what it would take —> Lannan, Espinosa + c/c+ prospect). Btw, first time poster, been reading the site for awhile now, love all of the differing perspectives we got here.
by Dcsportsguy425 on Feb 2, 2012 2:33 PM EST up reply actions
agreed.. don't think the Nats can afford to trade major league ready position players for him
also, welcome to the party :)
(Except LaRoche)
"I just want to tell you both good luck. We're all counting on you."
-Leslie Nielsen, Airplane
Call me crazy
I don’t think Adam Jones is as good as everyone else does. He strikes out over 100 times a year, bats in the low .280s and high .270’s, and I don’t think 12 sb count as a speed tool. I would take him on my team, but I don’t think he is the type of player everyone should be drooling over.
I think he's the best center fielder you're going to get
If John Lannan and/or Adam LaRoche is the centerpiece on the other end of the deal
"I just want to tell you both good luck. We're all counting on you."
-Leslie Nielsen, Airplane
I think it would take more than those two
The Orioles shot down a trade of Jurrens, Prado, and a pitching prospect for him.
It could be that he's still just 26 and remains a little projectable
In terms of the Nats needs, I’m not the hugest fan……..
1) He’s right-handed. Not the hugest deal in the world, but the team lacks, well, pretty much anything from the left side. Espinosa’s a switch hitter, Laroche (gone after this season) is a lefty, and when Harper comes up they’ll certainly have something from the left side. Still, the lineup is very right-handed.
2) We’ve seen some highlight reel plays, but most metrics tend to say that Jones is average to below average defensively in CF.
3) No leadoff skills whatsoever. Career 4.8% walk rate (actually lower than that in each of the past two seasons, so it’s not like he’s improving there) and .319 OBP
The speed is there, but he’s never really let it rip too much on the basepaths. That could have something to do wtih a ho-hum conversion percentage when he actually does run. It could also have something to do with the fact that the Orioles have mainly used him in spots in the order that are more conducive to run producing than table setting.
by bluelineswinger on Feb 2, 2012 4:54 PM EST up reply actions
Edwin Jackson vs 2011 Nats starters
using fWAR (unhelpful as that may be for pitchers)
Jackson: 3.8
Zimm: 3.4
Livo: 1.9
Marquis: 1.6
Lannan: 1.3
Strasburg: 1.1
FAKE REPORT: Lannan is said to have enjoyed his 90 minutes as the Nats' highest-paid pitcher...
Vivian Jaffe: "Have you ever transcended space and time?"
Albert Markovski: "Yes. No. Uh, time, not space... No, I don't know what you're talking about."
by Patrick Reddington on Feb 2, 2012 2:48 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
federalbaseball:
RT P2K>P2C @BenGoesslingPP: So, the Nats are done with that whole pitch-to-contact thing, huh?
Celebration!
Rob
--"Well my days of not taking you seriously are certainly coming to a middle." -- Mal Reynolds
by RobBobS on Feb 2, 2012 2:39 PM EST up reply actions 3 recs
I can't rec this enough, plus I have not given you sufficient props for your sig quote.
Aim for the head baby Jesus
Well, it looks more like the philosophy is
“Hey, all you P2K pitchers, we love you guys, and the Ks, but you don’t need to strike out EVERYONE. We want you to get to the 7th more than we want you to strike people out.”
"I just want to tell you both good luck. We're all counting on you."
-Leslie Nielsen, Airplane
interesting
The nats’ rotation will certainly make them contenders, at least at the outset. All 5 have the potential to put up winning records, even with a weak lineup. Still, I’m hesitant to pencil the Nats in for a playoff spot so soon (besides the normal hesitation one would have in doing that anyway…) because there are still a lot of question marks at the plate.
Because of the potential lack of offense, because the Nats look more primed for 2013 than 2012, it makes me wonder why they would abandon the Lannan/Detwiler combo for a one year deal. Don’t get me wrong – 80% chance this move is super-awesome. The nats might get quality for Lannan, though 1-1 with a starting CF is holding your breath IMO. Jackson might do well and resign. You get the idea. I’m just afraid of the other 20% – Lannan’s FIP numbers really are smoke and mirrors, Detwiler doesn’t develop, and Jackson leaves after this year.
If Jackson leaves its no big deal because next years FA class is SP and CF heavy
Check it out, there are a million decent options, and a decent amount of really good options
MOAR SEVERINO!
List
Starting pitchers
Scott Baker (31) – $9.25MM club option
Joe Blanton (32)
Matt Cain (28)
Fausto Carmona (29) – $9MM club option
Bartolo Colon (40)
Aaron Cook (34)
Kevin Correia (32)
Jorge De La Rosa (32) – $11MM player option with a $1MM buyout
Ryan Dempster (36)
R.A. Dickey (38) – $5MM club option with a $300K buyout
Zach Duke (30)
Scott Feldman (29) – $9.25MM club option with a $600K buyout
Jeff Francis (31)
Gavin Floyd (30) – $9.5MM club option
Freddy Garcia (37)
Zack Greinke (28)
Jeremy Guthrie (34)
Cole Hamels (29)
Dan Haren (32) – $15.5MM club option with a $3.5MM buyout
Livan Hernandez (38)
Tim Hudson (37) – $9MM club option with a $1MM buyout
Edwin Jackson (29)
Hiroki Kuroda (38)
Colby Lewis (33)
Francisco Liriano (29)
Kyle Lohse (34)
Rodrigo Lopez (37)
Derek Lowe (40)
Paul Maholm (31) – $6.5MM club option with a $500K buyout
Shaun Marcum (31)
Jason Marquis (34)
Daisuke Matsuzaka (32)
Brandon McCarthy (29)
Kevin Millwood (38)
Brett Myers (32) – $10MM club option with a $3MM buyout
Carl Pavano (37)
Jake Peavy (31) – $22MM club option with a $4MM buyout
Joel Pineiro (34)
Anibal Sanchez (29)
Jonathan Sanchez (30)
Ervin Santana (30) – $13MM club option with a $1MM buyout
Joe Saunders (32)
James Shields (31) – $9MM club option with a $1.5MM buyout
Chien-Ming Wang (33)
Jake Westbrook (35) – $8.5MM mutual option with a $1MM buyout if club declines
Dontrelle Willis (31)
Randy Wolf (36) – $10MM club option with a $1.5MM buyout
Carlos Zambrano (32) – $19.25MM player option depending on Zambrano’s Cy Young voting placement
MOAR SEVERINO!
good point
this had to be a major reason.
You guys. You lollygag the ball around the infield. You lollygag your way down to first. You lollygag in and out of the dugout. You know what that makes you? Larry!
There are some good names
But a lot of these guys are going to stick with their teams. I mean their teams will do what they can to re-sign him — esp. Cain and Hamels. Those kind of guys. Maybe Sanchez?
Lots of good CFs going to be available, too.
Rob
--"Well my days of not taking you seriously are certainly coming to a middle." -- Mal Reynolds
True, but the amount of names just as good as what we have if nice
catcher is also deeper than usual, but hopefuly we wont need to look there
MOAR SEVERINO!
Might want to update Fausto Carmona's age and name
I love this signing. Also, don’t forget that they are hoping Purke or Solis will be ready next year.
"I was a victim of a series of accidents. As are we all."
---Malachi Constant
by The Herndon Kid on Feb 2, 2012 3:00 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
TL;DR
Two types of guys worth targeting. The #1, 2 and 3 types, and the #4 and 5 types.
Front end
Matt Cain (28)
Zack Grienke (28)
Cole Hamels (29)
Edwin Jackson (29)
Shawn Marcum (31)
Brandon McCarthy (29)
Anibal Sanchez (29)
Back end
Joe Blanton (32)
Jeremy Guthrie (34)
Colby Lewis (33)
Joe Saunders (32)
Chien-Ming Wang (33)
Maybe we can get a CF for Lannan now!
I will hold off final judgment till we are done on this move, but I like it, and like what it sets up for other pieces
MOAR SEVERINO!
Opens up a lot of possibilities...
With this signing, Lannan may not be the only one on the block. Although Rizzo loves Det, I wouldn’t be surprised to see him dealt (in a package) to someone like the Rays for Upton (who Rizzo likes even more). Bottom line, having too many pitchers is never, EVER, a bad thing.
If there was one team with more depth at SP than the Nats.....
It’s the Rays.
That team is STACKED
1. Price
2. Shields
3. Hellickson
4. Moore
5. Niemann
6. Davis
7. Cobb
Then whatever AAAA depth they have. Lannan is the last thing they’d be interested in, unfortunately.
Who/what can we get for a sub-4.00 ERA experienced Lefty SP making $5M?
So, any thoughts on what the Nats will likely go after if they trade away Lannan now? What can we get for a sub-4.00 ERA experienced Lefty SP making $5M per year? I would be sorry to see JL leave, as he’s been a critical cog in our rotation longer than anyone, but I understand the rationale (even if EJax is just a 1-year stopgap – I hope it eventually works out that he’s around longer than that). Do we go after a trade for that major league CF we need so bad? Do we pick up the wished-for big bench bat? Or just look for a strong prospect in return? I think I’d argue for going after a CF now, though ‘solid/high prospect’ seems to have a high chance of where we end up.
As to whether this puts us in an awkward spot for trading Lannan – teams perceiving that the Nats really almost NEED to trade him – I think the key is to have patience. And I trust Rizzo has plenty of that. JL is a quality lefty #3 or #4 SP, and sometime between now and April 1 some team will be desperate for such a thing. No rush guys.
-bdbd
Im thinking with just Lannan your looking at someone like
Craig Gentry or Julio Borbon. a young guy who isnt proven, but has a decent upside
MOAR SEVERINO!
I hope Rizzo, as he's calling around trying to sell Lannan
isn’t using the same flash cards as he did during yesterday’s hearing.
Rob
--"Well my days of not taking you seriously are certainly coming to a middle." -- Mal Reynolds
Nah, he had someone take notes on what Lannan's agent used.
"I just want to tell you both good luck. We're all counting on you."
-Leslie Nielsen, Airplane
The Red Sox are shitting themselves
Some sample proposals: 1B Lars Anderson (#88 best prospect pre 2010) and Felix Doubront (23 year old big league ready LH SP).
I would shit myself for that kind of haul! I’d drive Lannan myself to Fenway. The craziest thing is none of the posters there even thought that the deal was that outlandish!
Language!
FF site, remember.
Rob
--"Well my days of not taking you seriously are certainly coming to a middle." -- Mal Reynolds
Haha I did too!
I was amazed when I saw it was already two-thirds in favor of acquiring him!!
What has this world come to? Red Sox fans squealing over the Nats scraps
Lars would be perfect in a Nats uniform
just saying. we could use a lefty 1b prospect.
You guys. You lollygag the ball around the infield. You lollygag your way down to first. You lollygag in and out of the dugout. You know what that makes you? Larry!
We've already got a failed full-time lefty 1B
Rob
--"Well my days of not taking you seriously are certainly coming to a middle." -- Mal Reynolds
He hasn't failed, he is just blocked.
He played well two Septembers ago.
"I was a victim of a series of accidents. As are we all."
---Malachi Constant
by The Herndon Kid on Feb 2, 2012 4:21 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
No he's failed
He was the 19th best prospect in all of baseball in 2009.
He’s now thought of as a back up 1B.
That’s failure if I ever saw it.
its not like he'd be blocking anyone on the Nats
I understand Tyler Moore is floating around. But still, he isn’t a major prospect either.
You guys. You lollygag the ball around the infield. You lollygag your way down to first. You lollygag in and out of the dugout. You know what that makes you? Larry!
Moore is a righty
And also almost a whole year younger than Anderson, despite Anderson playing 2 full seasons at AAA. Moore doesn’t have a single plate appearance at that level.
I’m sure Anderson’s .791 OPS at AAA would have been closer to Moore’s .846 OPS if he were playing a level lower.
We don't need another marginal 1B.
Between Marerro and Moore we are full for that.
#extendZim
Package Lannan and LaRoche for an ML center fielder...
…and I’ll do a victory lap.
Rob
--"Well my days of not taking you seriously are certainly coming to a middle." -- Mal Reynolds
by RobBobS on Feb 2, 2012 2:53 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
I think if the bar is at ML center fielder we can keep LaRoche
LaRoche and Lannan for McCuthen!(sp?)
MOAR SEVERINO!
I think if the bar is at ML center fielder we can keep LaRoche
They can take LaRoche anyway. ;-)
Rob
--"Well my days of not taking you seriously are certainly coming to a middle." -- Mal Reynolds
Right, so we trade him at the end of April.
"I just want to tell you both good luck. We're all counting on you."
-Leslie Nielsen, Airplane
at least now theres about 75 pitchers between o perez and the major league roster
Yeah, well, you know, that's just like, uh, your opinion man
by TJL on Feb 2, 2012 2:59 PM EST reply actions 2 recs
He's with the Mariners now. They're making him a AA reliever.
"I just want to tell you both good luck. We're all counting on you."
-Leslie Nielsen, Airplane
Oliver Perez...
Is no longer a threat to pitch in D.C.
Vivian Jaffe: "Have you ever transcended space and time?"
Albert Markovski: "Yes. No. Uh, time, not space... No, I don't know what you're talking about."
by Patrick Reddington on Feb 2, 2012 3:12 PM EST up reply actions
What fraction of the team does Boras control now?
I love that we didn’t have to trade anyone for him. If only we could’ve gotten Hudson for Dunn.
Scott Boras, megalomaniac
Rob
--"Well my days of not taking you seriously are certainly coming to a middle." -- Mal Reynolds
A revisionist history
Rizzo blasts Lannan in the arbitration hearing. Rizzo calls Lannan up later to say something like “nothing personal, it’s just business”. Lannan replies “you think that little of me? I want a trade.” Rizzo forced to find another starter at twice the price to comply…
Rob
--"Well my days of not taking you seriously are certainly coming to a middle." -- Mal Reynolds
Rizzo teleconference w/ reporters at 4:00...Any questions?
Rizzo on 106.7 the FAN at 4:30 and apparently on MLB Network’s Clubhouse Confidential at 5:35 pm EST.
Vivian Jaffe: "Have you ever transcended space and time?"
Albert Markovski: "Yes. No. Uh, time, not space... No, I don't know what you're talking about."
by Patrick Reddington on Feb 2, 2012 3:14 PM EST reply actions
"I'm not going to comment on trade speculation..."
Vivian Jaffe: "Have you ever transcended space and time?"
Albert Markovski: "Yes. No. Uh, time, not space... No, I don't know what you're talking about."
by Patrick Reddington on Feb 2, 2012 3:17 PM EST up reply actions
OK, then I have a follow-up question:
who are the Nats going to get for John Lannan?
Rob
--"Well my days of not taking you seriously are certainly coming to a middle." -- Mal Reynolds
[at which point my line is 'mysteriously' disconnected]
Vivian Jaffe: "Have you ever transcended space and time?"
Albert Markovski: "Yes. No. Uh, time, not space... No, I don't know what you're talking about."
by Patrick Reddington on Feb 2, 2012 3:21 PM EST up reply actions
"Does signing Edwin Jackson mean that the rotation is set?"
Or is there competition for the #5 spot still?
"I just want to tell you both good luck. We're all counting on you."
-Leslie Nielsen, Airplane
This, everyone putting wang is as the definite #4-5 guy when he hasn't been decent in years baffles me.
Aim for the head baby Jesus
The problem is what else do you do with him?
As a signed FA, he can’t be traded until well into the season; he can’t be sent to the minors without going through waivers, and “word is” he’s not well-suited to long relief. If the latter’s untrue, then my guess is that Stammen renews his apartment lease in Syracuse, Wang, Lannan and Detwiler fight it out for the fifth spot, and the Nats have an eight-man pen.
Brain: "Pinky, are you pondering what i'm pondering?"
Pinky: "Yes, ... wait, ... no, ... never mind"
Thinking out loud...
Kinda curious that all this happened immediately after arbitration, dontcha think?
The coincidence is too large to be true. This suggests they already had a deal in place for Lannan, but the other team wanted to wait until they saw how much he was making. What other explanation is there, besides complete coincidence? (btw it can’t be their surprise at how much he’s making because they won the hearing)
See my "revisionist history" remark above
It may not be all that far fetched.
Rob
--"Well my days of not taking you seriously are certainly coming to a middle." -- Mal Reynolds
That's actually what prompted my post...
…but I don’t think that’s what happened. It would require, in just a few hours, for Rizzo to go “uh oh”, decide not to let Lannan sleep on it and talk to him in the morning, call the Lerners and authorize a $10M payout, call Jackson’s agent, give him the terms, have the agent contact Jackson, have Jackson jump at the opportunity, then contact Rizzo again. And all the press stuff that goes along with it.
It all just happened too fast. If it happened next week, maybe.
There may have been preliminary discussions with Boras/Jackson all along
I honestly don’t know how quickly these things get done. It was pretty fast in “Moneyball” ;-)
Rob
--"Well my days of not taking you seriously are certainly coming to a middle." -- Mal Reynolds
Does any team even consider trading for Lannan if they haven’t had time to prepare an arbitration case? If not, then there doesn’t have to be anything in place, there’d just be no market at all until it’s settled, right?
It was settled
The Nats won the arbitration case. Lannan is owed $5 million this season.
by bluelineswinger on Feb 2, 2012 3:28 PM EST up reply actions
maybe
At least not within a week of the arbitration hearing. But before that, yea, guys have been traded. And why not sign Jackson before the hearing if your intention was to shop Lannan, anyway? And why not shop him before the hearing, just to see interest, even though the trigger won’t be pulled until after arbitration?
Didn't understand the unhealthy obsession with Edwin Jackson when it was time to trade Dunn
Part of that was the opportunity to snag Daniel Hudson from the White Sox until they eventually just traded him as part of the E-Jax deal. Given all the rumors around the 2010 trade deadline, I was amazed that the Nats hadn’t really been mentioned as a suitor for Jackson this entire offseason.
I’m still not so sure I understand the obsession, but there are two good things here…….
1) After years of struggling with it, Jackson does appear to have his control down at this point. The stuff/ability was always way ahead of it, and I can deal with a little bit of risk/reward out of the fourth spot in the rotation.
2) It’s only a one year deal.
Agreed. Also,
I’m loving the fact that our #4 guy has the potential to be as high as 2 in the future.
At this point, I think it's hard to call Jackson projectable
He’s 28 and has pitched the equivalent of six full seasons in the big leagues (first reached the bigs in 2003, but didn’t really stick as a starter until 2007). By the most common standards, that tells us he should be in his prime. You could argue that a pitcher’s prime starts (and ends) at a slightly younger age.
He is what he is, which is fine considering he’s the talent ahead of (around?) him in the rotation. Solid 3.5-4.0 fWAR pitcher who figures to keep an ERA a little under 4.00 with a FIP that could be a bit lower.
I do have to admit that a look at his profile page on Fangraphs has me a bit more excited about capitalizing on picking up a guy in his prime. Jackson’s FIP has dropped in each of the past four seasons (down to 3.55 in 2011).
by bluelineswinger on Feb 2, 2012 3:36 PM EST up reply actions
Red Sox
Were in for Jackson, but balked at his asking price.
Coincidentally, they wouldn’t offer more than $5mil. Fortunately, a guy just popped up on the market for an identical price….
(A slightly less-good guy...)
"I just want to tell you both good luck. We're all counting on you."
-Leslie Nielsen, Airplane
True
But besides Oswalt (who seems to be very geographically inclined to stay in the Midwest), who else is available?
Money seems to be the sole deciding factor for the Sox this offseason, to the point that they’re willing to field a worse team in order to save a couple million dollars. Cherington doesn’t seem to be nearly as crafty as Epstein, so I wouldn’t put it past them.
Well, what are they going to offer us for him?
Or what are we willing to take for him? He’s a decent back-end lefty with 2 years of control left, one of which is arb’d for 5 mil?
"I just want to tell you both good luck. We're all counting on you."
-Leslie Nielsen, Airplane
Over on the Sox SBNation blog
One guy proposed Felix Doubront and Lars Anderson. I personally think that a little too much (Cherington isn’t THAT dumb), but it does make a lot of sense.
Doubront is a LH SP in AAA. He got a few starts for the Sox in September, and would be basically big league ready. He’s the guy I’d go after to add some depth to AAA after we lost most of it in the Gio trade.
Anderson is kind of a failed top prospect. Not too dissimilar from Chris Marrero. Both were highly ranked in the top 100 prospects, but their bat never developed as expected, and neither project to hit well enough to be a good 1B, and can’t play another position. He could be good depth at 1B, especially with Marrero out for a while.
There’s a bunch of other options like Ryan Sweeney, I’m just building on some Red Sox fan’s suggestion.
Hmm...I'd take either one of those two if they threw in a high-A prospect who plays the other one's position.
So Anderson and a high-A LHSP, or Doubront and a high-A 1B.
"I just want to tell you both good luck. We're all counting on you."
-Leslie Nielsen, Airplane
Maybe we could get Che-Hsuan Lin and Doubront.
Lin is a super-speedy, plus defending OF, with great plate discipline, but has almost no power.
#extendZim
So Nyjer with discipline and an arm?
"I just want to tell you both good luck. We're all counting on you."
-Leslie Nielsen, Airplane
The crazy I don't mind so much.
As long as he’s crazy in non-getting-suspended ways.
"I just want to tell you both good luck. We're all counting on you."
-Leslie Nielsen, Airplane
Morse is huge
wherever he goes.
Rob
--"Well my days of not taking you seriously are certainly coming to a middle." -- Mal Reynolds
what do people here think of Kalish as a CF option?
"We're not here to try; we're here to win" - Brooks Laich
To be honest, I could be OK with Kalish as a CF option
The injury scares me a little, though.
by bluelineswinger on Feb 2, 2012 4:32 PM EST up reply actions
And I don't think that the Red Sox will trade him after dealing Reddick already this offseason
If he was 100%, he’d likely be their opening day RF.
by bluelineswinger on Feb 2, 2012 4:33 PM EST up reply actions
sorry, im a semi-baseball novice so dont know about the injury (and obviously I didnt read down to your next post)…
"We're not here to try; we're here to win" - Brooks Laich
No biggie
I actually do like Kalish quite a bit. Plus glove in a corner spot that could be adequate in CF. Strong on-base skills with good speed and a little pop. Lefty bat, which is a bonus (this team is so overloaded with right-handed hitters going forward). Also has less than a full season of service time, so we’re talking about a guy with six years of club control.
by bluelineswinger on Feb 2, 2012 4:46 PM EST up reply actions
Nice Irish lefty to Boston?
That would make sense. They already traded off a little of their outfield depth with Reddick going to Oakland, though. I know they’re hurting for big league ready outfielders themselves at this point with Kalish expected to be out until midseason and Crawford likely to start the year on the DL.
by bluelineswinger on Feb 2, 2012 3:49 PM EST up reply actions
Make that SP and SS
Desmond might be on the block too. Doubt LaRoche would be traded now; not that valuable – besides, we’ll need him until Harper gets called up,
"I can go to my left or right, I am amphibious." - Charles Shackelford
How about Lannan for Marlon Byrd? Straight up?
If you don't eat your meat, you can't have any pudding! How can you have any pudding if you don't eat your meat?!
i could see this happening
You guys. You lollygag the ball around the infield. You lollygag your way down to first. You lollygag in and out of the dugout. You know what that makes you? Larry!
Well, there is no reason that the Cubs would want Lannan.
And Bryd may bring the rebuilding Cubs another draft slot.
If Bryd goes to Boston, then maybe.
#extendZim
Three-team trade?
Lannan to Boston, Boston prospects to Chicago, Byrd to us?
"I just want to tell you both good luck. We're all counting on you."
-Leslie Nielsen, Airplane
That might have some potential there.....
If you don't eat your meat, you can't have any pudding! How can you have any pudding if you don't eat your meat?!
I was thinking Selig's comment that he was sending a Major player to the Red Sox for Theo compensation.
The best case scenario for the Nationals would be for Selig to give the Red Sox Brett Jackson as compensation for Theo leaving. Then the Red Sox trade Jackson to the the Nationals for Lannan and a bullpen arms. However, this seems like a really jerk move by Selig as Brett Jackson is basically the only thing Cubs fans are excited for this season.
#extendZim
Well now, if you check over at Bleed Cubbie Blue....
several people are in favor of getting Lannan, Some even want to trade Byrd to the Nationals. Theo and Jed play their cards close to the vest, so no one has any idea what the Cubs may or may not actually do.
"Pinky, are you pondering what I'm pondering?"--The Brain
MarkZuckerman:
Rizzo: “We’re certainly always open to a deal that makes sense for us. We did not acquire Edwin Jackson to trade another starting pitcher.”
That is the sweet sound of LEVERAGE
I agree the team needs more innings considering the injury history, but I also believe Rizzo is currently trying to squeeze as much out of somebody as he can. God bless him, and God’s Speed.
We Aim to Maim - JoseRijo es mi Amigo aka court
Yeah, but
the current option is to send a five-million dollar pitcher down to the minors?
Rob
--"Well my days of not taking you seriously are certainly coming to a middle." -- Mal Reynolds
So no one has said it yet, but...
Six-man rotation?
"I just want to tell you both good luck. We're all counting on you."
-Leslie Nielsen, Airplane
With the Nats' offense?
Heaven forbid.
Rob
--"Well my days of not taking you seriously are certainly coming to a middle." -- Mal Reynolds
acomak:
Rizzo notes that John Lannan does have an option remaining but #Nats don’t seem to plan to use it. “We feel he’s a major league pitcher.”
Maybe the Nats plan on carrying 26 active players
and hope nobody notices.
Rob
--"Well my days of not taking you seriously are certainly coming to a middle." -- Mal Reynolds
Or six man but not bother with a long-man.
“Okay, we need the long guy. Who’s supposed to pitch tomorrow? You’re going in.”
"I just want to tell you both good luck. We're all counting on you."
-Leslie Nielsen, Airplane
16 win front 4...
easy. stras 5 jordan 4 gio 3.5 jackson 3.5 give or take. That is awesome.
by William.Hatheway on Feb 2, 2012 4:08 PM EST reply actions
AdamKilgoreWP:
Mike Rizzo says the Nats needed another starter. “We felt we had an innings shortage.”
agreed
because stras and because it is wise to expect injury, plus they lost 2-1 mlb-ready starters getting gio…
by William.Hatheway on Feb 2, 2012 4:10 PM EST up reply actions
Lannan to Toronto for Colby Rasmus?
It’s all I got.
Rob
--"Well my days of not taking you seriously are certainly coming to a middle." -- Mal Reynolds
Lannan's got to be better than McGowan
Rob
--"Well my days of not taking you seriously are certainly coming to a middle." -- Mal Reynolds
The Jays do have a number of good OF prospects coming up
But I have no interest in Colby Rasmus.
#extendZim
He'd be the best CF on the Nats.
Rob
--"Well my days of not taking you seriously are certainly coming to a middle." -- Mal Reynolds
and a nice lefty bat in the lineup.
You guys. You lollygag the ball around the infield. You lollygag your way down to first. You lollygag in and out of the dugout. You know what that makes you? Larry!
his dad's a prick though
You guys. You lollygag the ball around the infield. You lollygag your way down to first. You lollygag in and out of the dugout. You know what that makes you? Larry!
ummm...
OK.
Rob
--"Well my days of not taking you seriously are certainly coming to a middle." -- Mal Reynolds
Rasmus seems erradic for no particular reason.
If he were a prospect that would be fine. But as a 3rd season player? Less so. I don’t see him as having a high-upside.
#extendZim
HA i know i know
but its to the point where it effects his performance and his relationship with his team
You guys. You lollygag the ball around the infield. You lollygag your way down to first. You lollygag in and out of the dugout. You know what that makes you? Larry!
Id certainly take Rasmus
I don’t think we’d meet their demands though.
You guys. You lollygag the ball around the infield. You lollygag your way down to first. You lollygag in and out of the dugout. You know what that makes you? Larry!
They can have LaRoche, too!
Lind is somewhere between worthless and pretty good. Depends on the year though.
Rob
--"Well my days of not taking you seriously are certainly coming to a middle." -- Mal Reynolds
Rasmus
Plus plate discipline…….. lefty bat…….. average defense in CF, but a legit CF. Plus power, but I’d think that the discipline and speed would make him a leadoff option. Not that I think Anthopuolos (sp?) wouldn’t laugh Rizzo off the phone in a straight up deal……
The guy I could see AA shopping for Lannan would be Travis Snider. Don’t think he could handle CF, but he’s been very disappointing for them. Change of scenery could work wonders.
by bluelineswinger on Feb 2, 2012 4:23 PM EST up reply actions
Snyder won't work
No where to play him. He is a bad corner outfielder defensively. With Werth and Harper…eh.
Rasmus would be a nice get. I just don’t see it happening though. They won’t give up on him now.
You guys. You lollygag the ball around the infield. You lollygag your way down to first. You lollygag in and out of the dugout. You know what that makes you? Larry!
Agreed that Snider is a poor defensive corner outfielder.... Again, don't think he could handle CF
Rasmus would be an amazing get, but I just can’t really see the Nats having the pieces to get it done. I doubt they’d move Anthony Gose (still at least a year or two away anyway) either.
Snider’s definitely still young enough to live up to the hype with the bat. I agree he wouldn’t exactly be the ideal target, but I’m not sure we’re really going to find someone who is.
by bluelineswinger on Feb 2, 2012 4:31 PM EST up reply actions
In terms of bWAR
Rasmus and Lannan aren’t THAT far apart. Their best two years were roughly identical. Meanwhile, the Jays are in need of an SP, and Rasmus crapped the bed last year after the trade. All that spells: he might be had, if not just for Lannan then for not much more than Lannan.
Rob
--"Well my days of not taking you seriously are certainly coming to a middle." -- Mal Reynolds
+1
Snider is still young enough to live up to that potential. The problem is- where would he play in July? He’s not nearly athletic enough to play CF (some even think he’s not good enough for the corners), and those spots are taken by Werth and Harper.
It might not be a bad idea to wait until Spring Training to trade Lannan
Wait until a team loses a starting pitcher to injury and then RZO would maybe be able to get a little more. Plus it covers us in case we have an injury of our own.
We Aim to Maim - JoseRijo es mi Amigo aka court
AdamKilgoreWP:
Interesting from Rizzo: The Nats think Jackson has a flaw in wind-up that allows hitters to see the ball. They’ll make “tweaks” to delivery.
so is he going on the fan here shortly?
You guys. You lollygag the ball around the infield. You lollygag your way down to first. You lollygag in and out of the dugout. You know what that makes you? Larry!
did i miss him?
or they wasting time with some crazies?
You guys. You lollygag the ball around the infield. You lollygag your way down to first. You lollygag in and out of the dugout. You know what that makes you? Larry!
If it was baseball
it would be 4:35.
Rob
--"Well my days of not taking you seriously are certainly coming to a middle." -- Mal Reynolds
who is baby hawk?
You guys. You lollygag the ball around the infield. You lollygag your way down to first. You lollygag in and out of the dugout. You know what that makes you? Larry!
The Fan teased Rizzo...
but maybe he’s working the phones with BOS, TOR, CHC?
We Aim to Maim - JoseRijo es mi Amigo aka court
Of course, they are only talking about football
for some reason.
Rob
--"Well my days of not taking you seriously are certainly coming to a middle." -- Mal Reynolds
I like the fan
but they just talk Redskins 24/7
I get that its the biggest conversation in Washington. But so tiring.
You guys. You lollygag the ball around the infield. You lollygag your way down to first. You lollygag in and out of the dugout. You know what that makes you? Larry!
It sounds to me more like a bunch of dudes sitting around the couch
sippin’ beers and whatnot on a Saturday afternoon.
Rob
--"Well my days of not taking you seriously are certainly coming to a middle." -- Mal Reynolds
It's the Redskins version of FanCave
"I just want to tell you both good luck. We're all counting on you."
-Leslie Nielsen, Airplane
Translation:
it’s like being the only sober guy at the bar.
“Are all our conversations so inane?!”
Rob
--"Well my days of not taking you seriously are certainly coming to a middle." -- Mal Reynolds
Suggestion:
Have a drink. They’ll start sounding better.
"I can go to my left or right, I am amphibious." - Charles Shackelford
I don't really trust Lavar to ask the Hard Questions.
nor give the interview i am looking for.
You guys. You lollygag the ball around the infield. You lollygag your way down to first. You lollygag in and out of the dugout. You know what that makes you? Larry!
He is at 5:30
"I just want to tell you both good luck. We're all counting on you."
-Leslie Nielsen, Airplane
Dig up the ESPN 980 interview when it happens
Supposedly at 5:30. They MIGHT ask harder questions. At least more knowledgeable ones.
But the Nat Pack ask more interesting questions in trivia games than Lavar does on his show.
"I just want to tell you both good luck. We're all counting on you."
-Leslie Nielsen, Airplane
Can we have Debbi do it?
You guys. You lollygag the ball around the infield. You lollygag your way down to first. You lollygag in and out of the dugout. You know what that makes you? Larry!
...aannnnnddddd....
more inanity.
Rob
--"Well my days of not taking you seriously are certainly coming to a middle." -- Mal Reynolds
No, if it were baseball, it would SAY 4:35
And happen at 4:39 (weather permitting)
"I just want to tell you both good luck. We're all counting on you."
-Leslie Nielsen, Airplane
AdamKilgoreWP:
Lo and behold, the league’s hit .283/.344/.438 vs. Jackson w/ bases empty (wind up) since 09. With runners on (stretch): .246/.308/.385
Bring in the Ryan Dempster and Matt Garza Twitch
You guys. You lollygag the ball around the infield. You lollygag your way down to first. You lollygag in and out of the dugout. You know what that makes you? Larry!
I saw in some other tweets that EJax may tip his pitches...
so if we can get his wind-up stats in line with his stretch stats, we’re cooking with kerosine.
We Aim to Maim - JoseRijo es mi Amigo aka court
(Don't do this at home, kids)
Rob
--"Well my days of not taking you seriously are certainly coming to a middle." -- Mal Reynolds
(Or anywhere else without proper safety precautions, such as a fire truck)
"I just want to tell you both good luck. We're all counting on you."
-Leslie Nielsen, Airplane
I know we'll see a big improvement in our 2012 rotation but...
anybody else a little bit bummed that we won’t see any Livo and possibly no Lannan now, new era
Lannan and Livo
Horse-and-buggy thinking, if you pardon the expression. They represent the “old Nationals”. The “Natinals”, if you will.
Rob
--"Well my days of not taking you seriously are certainly coming to a middle." -- Mal Reynolds
(No, that was Dunn)
"I just want to tell you both good luck. We're all counting on you."
-Leslie Nielsen, Airplane
I miss the Donkey...
Rob
--"Well my days of not taking you seriously are certainly coming to a middle." -- Mal Reynolds
He pulled the cart, all right.
I miss him too, but I’d rather have Morse.
"I just want to tell you both good luck. We're all counting on you."
-Leslie Nielsen, Airplane
Love the move
If the Nats don’t trade Lannan, hello depth at pitching, which you can never have too much of.
If John’s gone, maybe addresses the longstanding CF problem.
Win-win.
I was trained to mix concrete and sign complicated insurance forms.
Love the signing
good job Rizzo. He is still young, so if he does well and the Nationals do well, maybe he might want to sign an extension to stay here.
Thanks, was just coming to do that. Rizzo quotes from interview up top...
Transcribing the rest now. That’s just first run.
Vivian Jaffe: "Have you ever transcended space and time?"
Albert Markovski: "Yes. No. Uh, time, not space... No, I don't know what you're talking about."
by Patrick Reddington on Feb 2, 2012 5:11 PM EST up reply actions
Go back to our CF wish-list
Not fer nothing, but why don’t we just go back to our Nov-Dec. CF wish-list and see what a Lannan and a RP (or 1B) might buy… What do Rays want for Upton? Do the Twins need a SP (for Span)? What would Bourgos take to pry away from LAA? (and do they need a LHSP?) Do the Yanks do Gardner for Lannan? (I think yes, but he has just 1 year left, at $2.8M.) Any other CF/lead-off targets out there to go for, especially on teams needing SP’s? Would any of these teams be interesested in Lannan and maybe another piece we have?
BTW, I agree with the comment that a little patience might be in order, as SP often seems particularly in big demand as the month of March progresses…. And yes, JL still provides valuable competition for Wang/Det for the #5 slot, and important injury insurance.
But the real point is, “What’s more valuable to the Nats — a 7th (quality LHP) potential starter/innings eater… OR….a quality CF/lead-off hitter…OR…quality prospect(s)???”
Clearly there’s value in having that insurance SP, but I think there’s more value to this team getting the lead-ff hitter and CF they clearly need.
-bdbd
CF wish-list vs pitcher need
Yanks just added 2 starting pitchers many think they will be trading a pitcher. The Rays have extra starting pitchers also. Angle have a strong starting rotation, I don’t think they have extra starters. Think they are more interested in trading an extra 1B then a CF.
The pitcher that the Yankees want to trade is Burnett
At this point, I’d rather have Lannan. Other than a LH bench bat/designated hitter, it’s also not clear what the Yankees need at this point.
I don't think the Yanks will trade Gardner for Lannan
As HG said, they just added two starters better than Lannan. Lannan would be a #5 starter, meaning he would not get any playoff starts (and yes the Yankees do think that far ahead). Also, Gardner is one of only two Yankees with any speed, and they don’t have a replacement for him offensively or defensively, nor do they have any top OF prospects (but have a lot of top pitching prospects).
Not the worst trade on paper (though I still might not do it if I’m the Yanks), but it just doesn’t make sense for them at this time.
Lannan would be a #5 starter? Unlikely
He would be nothing more than insurance in case Hughes falters. And that’s assuming the Yankees deal Burnett.
All the more reason why the Yanks don't make the trade
I was assuming he’d start over Burnett and Hughes. Hard to not start someone making a bajillion dollars. Hard to deal them, too.
Oh, no worries - I've made it my personal mission to squelch the longstanding "Lannan for Gardner" trope
I wouldn’t have Lannan the favorite against Hughes even up on talent … actually I wouldn’t give him the edge over either in talent, but he certainly gets ahead of A.J. on consistency. When good A.J. shows up, he’s better than either of them. But when bad A.J. shows up … yikes.
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