Wire Taps: Washington Nationals' John Lannan Chatter, ST Home?
by Patrick Reddington on Feb 7, 2012 9:28 AM EST
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• I'll Stay Home Forever, Where 2+2 Always Makes A 5: 24-year-old Los Angeles Angels' outfielder Peter Bourjos' name came up in connection to the Washington Nationals' search for a center fielder earlier this winter. Writers including the Boston Globe's Nick Cafardo wondered if the AL West team had room for Bourjos in their outfield with Mike Trout coming soon and Torii Hunter and Vernon Wells on the roster. FOXSports.com's Ken Rosenthal identified the Angels' '05 10th Round pick as a target for the Nationals, but NatsInsider.com's Mark Zuckerman spoke to a source "familiar with the Angels," at the time, who told him Los Angeles had no interest in dealing Bourjos, instead projecting he'd be part of a future outfield with Trout. Bourjos had a .271/.327/.438 slash in his first full season in Anaheim last year, with 26 doubles, 11 triples, 12 HR's and 22 stolen bases, and he was worth +4.3 fWAR on the year, with a .989 fld%, 4 errors and a +8.1 UZR/150 in center field.
The Boston Globe's Mr. Cafardo brought up the possibility of Bourjos ending up being the solution for the Nationals' center field issues again this past Sunday, writing in his weekly "Sunday Baseball Notes" column that Nats' lefty John Lannan, "... is a terrific option as an end-of-the rotation starter now that Washington has signed Edwin Jackson," but...
"There is a lot of speculation that the Nationals will deal him to the Angels for center fielder Peter Bourjos, with Mike Trout on the way to play that position in Anaheim."
Orange County Register writer Bill Plunkett wrote on Monday night, in an article entitled, "Whew — Bourjos is safe now", that he thinks the Nationals decision to bring veteran outfielder Rick Ankiel back on a minor league deal should end any speculation about the Nats trading for Bourjos. And anyway, the only people who were buying into this Lannan-for-Bourjos business were people who were, "... less familiar with the Angels putting 2 and 2 together — and getting 5." The Angels love Bourjos' defense, the writer argues, they see him as part of a future outfield with Trout, and aren't desperate to add a fifth starter with one-time National-for-a-minute Jerome Williams leading the pack of potential starters competing for the last rotation spot.
Does the Ankiel signing effectively end the Nationals' search for a center fielder this winter? D.C. GM Mike Rizzo did tell reporters, following the Gio Gonzalez press conference, "I think that we have candidates in house that we'll go to Spring Training with," though he did, of course, add that, "That's not to say that we've abandoned the search for the right fit for us." And that was before Ankiel re-signed...
• ST HOME?: SBNationDC writer Samuel Chamberlain wrote on Monday about an article from the Ft. Myers News-Press by Thomas Himes entitled, "Lee officials continue talks with Washington Nationals", in which the News-Press' writer reports that Lee County, FL officials have, "... targeted the Washington Nationals in an effort to bring big league baseball back to City of Palms Park." City of Palms Park was the home of the Boston Red Sox until this season when the AL East team moved into a new Spring home. The Nationals, who have a contract to play in Space Coast Stadium in Viera, FL through the 2017 season, are exploring several possibilities according to a team spokesman quoted in the article.
D.C. GM Mike Rizzo was asked about Spring Training facilities he had visited in a press conference earlier this winter, and the Nats' general manager told reporters, "I've been to Viera to watch Instructional League. We made a trip to Ft. Myers to take a look at a couple of places over there, but we're scheduled and prepared to be in Viera next year and looking forward to arriving." This talk has been going on for a while now. That link goes back to 2010. This one from when the chatter about leaving Viera came up last February. And this one from last March. The move to Fort Myers, the News-Press' writer notes, would put the Nats in close proximity to the Red Sox, Twins and Rays' Spring facilities. More news on the Nats' plans when it's available.
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Thanks for the RH reference
in case any of you missed it,
You have not been paying attention! Paying attention! Paying Attention!
Rob
--"Well my days of not taking you seriously are certainly coming to a middle." -- Mal Reynolds
"Don't question my authority or put me in a box, cause I'm not, cause I'm not..."
Vivian Jaffe: "Have you ever transcended space and time?"
Albert Markovski: "Yes. No. Uh, time, not space... No, I don't know what you're talking about."
by Patrick Reddington on Feb 7, 2012 11:50 AM EST up reply actions
Maybe not.
Rob
--"Well my days of not taking you seriously are certainly coming to a middle." -- Mal Reynolds
they can get out of it apparently.
You guys. You lollygag the ball around the infield. You lollygag your way down to first. You lollygag in and out of the dugout. You know what that makes you? Larry!
OK, I'm a bit concerned about this Ankiel thing
I can tolerate him on the bench, being the late-inning defensive replacement for Werth, but this article makes it sound like people are penciling him in as the regular starting CF? Isn’t that exactly the sort of thing that made the Nats one of the worst offensive clubs in the Majors last year?
Rob
--"Well my days of not taking you seriously are certainly coming to a middle." -- Mal Reynolds
There doesn’t seem to be any CF options available via trade. it’s all pie in the sky stuff.
I think CF from a hitting standpoint is a lost cause this year. I say make sure it is a defense strength and call it a day.
I wouldn't count out the Shark
His back is against the wall. Maybe this is the spring that he turns the corner. He has the physical tools to do it.
Maybe Beast Mode 2.0.
I don't believe that there are no options
I think there are plenty of options, it just depends on how much they want it. I have moaned (loudly) that the Nats have done nothing to improve their offense this off-season (save for saying “it’s just going to be better, OK?!”) Signing Ankiel to be a regular is like doubling down on doing nothing. Why don’t they coax Matt Stairs out of retirement while they’re at it?
Rob
--"Well my days of not taking you seriously are certainly coming to a middle." -- Mal Reynolds
To get you started, there's this post
Thanks to a certain chubias.
Rob
--"Well my days of not taking you seriously are certainly coming to a middle." -- Mal Reynolds
I remember reading that and don’t recall anything there that jumped out at me… which one(s) did you think were doable at the right price?
by PerryMason on Feb 7, 2012 12:07 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
I still believe that Colby Rasmus could be had for not too much.
But others disagree. In any case, I think most anyone is ‘gettable’.
Rob
--"Well my days of not taking you seriously are certainly coming to a middle." -- Mal Reynolds
I agree they have done nothing to bolster the offense and they should.
However, I think it is reasonable to believe that the offense should get better with Zimm, LaRoche, and Werth reverting to norms. I think the Nationals bench could use a DH-esque hitter, to pinch hit once game.
On the CF front, I find it unlikely that we would be able to acquire a true top flight CF. However, I think that there are a number of potentially good options in AAA guys or Left fielders that might slide over. I think that we could get somebody like Logan Schafer, Dave Sappelt, Charlie Blackmon or Gorkys Hernandez for John Lannan. These guys have all been tagged as “ideal fourth OFs” but remain unproven so I don’t think they have a great deal of value for thier respective teams. In addition, with the exception of Sappelt, they all play on teams with a crowded OF. I think the high side would be getting somebody like Gerrado Parra, who would be a major victory to land. However, if we were trading with AZ, then Chris Young might be more likely.
#extendZim
Young would be a good get
but he’d be expensive, I imagine.
Rob
--"Well my days of not taking you seriously are certainly coming to a middle." -- Mal Reynolds
Probably more than the Nationals can offer at this time.
The Diamondbacks don’t have any glaring holes at this time, particularly after the Cahill trade and the Saunders signing. They do have a couple key pieces in walk years though. Drew and Montero could be FA after this season, so they might be looking for some additional payroll flexibilty.
#extendZim
Which brings me back to my original post. Unless Mr. Run Silent Run Deep knows something we don’t about an upgrade that could be had at a reasonable price, the Nats are going to have to live with a CF who is not a good hitter;and if that’s the case I would hope they make sure that defensively CF will be a plus plus.
It's one big name.
There are plenty of other less-than-big names that I think could be had. Again, I think Rasmus would be a good pick-up, and I’m sure the Jays could use another starter.
Rob
--"Well my days of not taking you seriously are certainly coming to a middle." -- Mal Reynolds
Any reason the Nats need him more than the Jays?
Sure the Nats really need a CF, but do the Jays really have any alternatives. They made the trade to grab him in the first place, clearly he fills a need.
So, in essence, why would the Jays even consider making him available?
You guys. You lollygag the ball around the infield. You lollygag your way down to first. You lollygag in and out of the dugout. You know what that makes you? Larry!
They have four CFs on their depth chart
None of them are all that inspiring. More importantly, they are very thin in starting pitching.
Rob
--"Well my days of not taking you seriously are certainly coming to a middle." -- Mal Reynolds
And more importantly, they have Anthony Goose in AA, who does look like a star.
I doubt that the Jay’s would part with Rasmus for Lannan alone.
#extendZim
Fine.
#sendThemLaRoche
Rob
--"Well my days of not taking you seriously are certainly coming to a middle." -- Mal Reynolds
I'm not sure I actually see that helping the offense.
I think a healthy LaRoche could bring .260/.330/.475, which isn’t great for a corner position, but you could do much worse.
#extendZim
Morse/Harper/Rasmus/Werth
will almost certainly be better than LaRoche/Morse/Ankiel/Werth.
Rob
--"Well my days of not taking you seriously are certainly coming to a middle." -- Mal Reynolds
Well,
That depends on Rasmus coming back to life from zombie form, and it assumes that we would keep Ankiel. We might be able to trade for a solid OBP, Cf without trading LaRoche.
Maybe guy Moises Sierra. They also DFA’d Darin Mastroianni who the Blue Jays seem to have forgotten about in AA years ago. Could be worth a pick up.
#extendZim
Mastroianni
I can’t find much on him, but I can’t understand why. He consistently posts double digit walk rates, is fast on the base paths, and has good contact. Yet, he’s 25 and in AAA with all of 2 MLB PAs. Here’s an old article about him being awesome.
http://www.milb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20100510&content_id=9956524&vkey=news_milb&fext=.jsp
I think this calls for an invite to ST.
#extendZim
If they can trade LaRoche and his absurd $9M contract
it’ll be good all around.
Rob
--"Well my days of not taking you seriously are certainly coming to a middle." -- Mal Reynolds
I think it's a reference to the contract itself (and its recipient)
rather than the financial impact of said contract.
Brain: "Pinky, are you pondering what i'm pondering?"
Pinky: "Yes, ... wait, ... no, ... never mind"
Brisbee suggests
Clippard and Solis for Bourjos and Thompson.
A trade which does nothing for the Nats crowded SP situation. (?)
Rob
--"Well my days of not taking you seriously are certainly coming to a middle." -- Mal Reynolds
Yeah, that trade makes no sense.
I don’t really understand the fascination with Bourjos or Jones. They both are overvalued by thier current team.
#extendZim
True, but
either would represent a substantial upgrade for CF on the Nats.
Rob
--"Well my days of not taking you seriously are certainly coming to a middle." -- Mal Reynolds
Agreed, but
1. The Nats CF was awful for offense last year, so you aren’t saying much.
2. The Nationals are actually probably ok for power. Even with down years from Zim, Werth, and LaRoche, we were slightly above average for HRs in the National league. However, as you know we were basically tied for last in avg. and obp.
3. Jones and Bourjos do little to help with this problem and are mostly valued for thier power. They are mid-pack for OBP, but nearly last in BB/K ratio.
This leads me to conclude that they are valued because they offer power at an unusal position. But the Nationals would get move bang for their buck by simply having guys that don’t get out as much.
#extendZim
by chubias on Feb 7, 2012 12:21 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I'm not talking about an improvement over last year,
I’m talking about an improvement over what they’ve got TODAY. Either would be a substantial improvement over Bernadina and/or Ankiel and/or Cameron. Substantial.
Rob
--"Well my days of not taking you seriously are certainly coming to a middle." -- Mal Reynolds
The guys from last year are the same guys from TODAY!
Unless for some reason you believe that Cameron is going to amount to a discernable difference. I thought that was most of your point?
I agree that Jones and Bourjos would be improvements, but they would like cost more in trade than the Nationals can afford without opening a new hole in the line-up. Additionally, there are cheaper options that would better meet the Nationals needs.
#extendZim
+1
While the Nationals need a CF, the LAST thing they need is someone who can’t get on base but can hit for power. Zim, Morse, Harper, Werth, Espinosa, Ramos, even Rendon, that’s 7 with over 15 HR/year. They need a leadoff hitter, who doesn’t strike out. It seems like Mr. Brisbee (venture bros.? anyone?) doesn’t seem to understand the situation.
It's not the "last thing"
The Nats are already on path to put up a guy who can’t hit for power NOR can he get on base.
Rob
--"Well my days of not taking you seriously are certainly coming to a middle." -- Mal Reynolds
We won't know
who is the starting cf until well into Spring Training , maybe even not till opening day. Also 2 sore arms in ST and you no longer have a crowded starting pitching problem!
Two sore arms
and the Nats probably don’t have to worry about the logistics of printing up and distributing playoff tickets, either. So, let’s not count on or hope for that to happen!
Rob
--"Well my days of not taking you seriously are certainly coming to a middle." -- Mal Reynolds
I'm not hoping for or counting on
that to happen but you always need to be prepared. The facts are injuries happen especially to pitchers and depth is the only cure.
Yeah, but you probably shouldn't have seven ML starters;
with only one having options, they are too crowded.
Rob
--"Well my days of not taking you seriously are certainly coming to a middle." -- Mal Reynolds
Waldis Joaquin
Never heard of him before, but he’s an NRI relief pitcher. Any inside into on him? It would appear from a VERY small sample over three years for the Giants that he has a lot of trouble throwing strikes, but, as we say VSSS. He’s got a cool name anyway.
Rob
--"Well my days of not taking you seriously are certainly coming to a middle." -- Mal Reynolds
Typical Rizzo scrap heap pickup
Throws hard, and has great stuff(upper 90’s FB), but cant control it. Very similar to Cortes I belive. Basicly an reliver Rizzo picks up will be hard throwing. Its just the Rizzo way
MOAR SEVERINO!
Center Field
I think Harper will be in DC by June at the latest. Considering that, I’m okay with stop-gap solutions to CF for half a season (ie Ankiel/Cameron) until Werth shifts over and Harper plays RF. I don’t think we should give the farm away when next year’s FA class has Bourn, Victorino and Upton. One more year also allows the team to see what they have in Taylor, Perez and Goodwin as well.
We Aim to Maim - JoseRijo es mi Amigo aka court
That's fine
But if the Nats are in a wait ‘till next year mode, why then did they sign Jackson? I’m just confused about how I should feel about this year.
Rob
--"Well my days of not taking you seriously are certainly coming to a middle." -- Mal Reynolds
Why not?
They are close to contention. I think they are mathematically a few games above .500. And with the possible addition of a second wild card, someone could make the playoffs with 88 wins or so. So they are a Danny Espinosa hot streak away from the playoffs.
Edwin is the perfect guy because of the one year contract. 2013 has a plethora of SP’s, thus far. So one year gap bridges them to 2012. He is a solid starter and will reduce the strain on a young rotation. I like it.
I get that some teams don’t want to spend money they don’t have to especially when they aren’t in contention. But they are close and if they build on last year, fans can begin to expect good baseball which will draw more fans. If you can get a reasonable contract for a player, and it makes your team better, I think it almost always makes sense.
If for some reason they struggle out of the gate, he is a reasonable trade chip midseason, though I know he must be at least semi sick of that prospect.
You guys. You lollygag the ball around the infield. You lollygag your way down to first. You lollygag in and out of the dugout. You know what that makes you? Larry!
And if the story about his Windup is true
all the better. it would be fun to see him blossom in a Nats uniform. Their rotation could be silly.
You guys. You lollygag the ball around the infield. You lollygag your way down to first. You lollygag in and out of the dugout. You know what that makes you? Larry!
I don't get "mathematically a few games above .500"
They may project that way, but it’s far from the certainty of math. But I speak semantics here.
I have no idea what the Nats’ plan is: are they really thinking of playing Ankiel full time (I hope not)? Is there a trade for a CF in the works (I hope so, with qualifications)? It’s that uncertainty that vexes me.
Rob
--"Well my days of not taking you seriously are certainly coming to a middle." -- Mal Reynolds
well i am using the data geeks forecasts
but thats all you can really do as a GM of the Nats right? Try and predict your win output and improve on it. If you think you are within striking distance of a playoff chance, take it.
thats all i am saying. they obviously have to play the game.
You guys. You lollygag the ball around the infield. You lollygag your way down to first. You lollygag in and out of the dugout. You know what that makes you? Larry!
If you can't improve your team with hitting, then add more pitching
I see adding Jackson as the best way to improve the team considering the options available. He wanted to add a starting pitcher and a CF, but when the CF didn’t materialize, he just added another SP.
I don’t think the team is in ‘wait-until-next-year’ mode. It’s more about playing the hand you’re dealt. Add Harper, keep LaRoche, play Werth in CF this year. Then lose LaRoche next year, move Morse to 1B, Werth to LF and sign a FA CF for next year’s squad. While this year’s lineup is not ideal, at least they bulked up the rotation so we can lean on them this year.
We Aim to Maim - JoseRijo es mi Amigo aka court
taylor and perez cant hit
i dont get why rizzo gets all these toosly players who just look good in a uniform,and run fast.some of the best players are the least athletic looking,we need a centerfielder whos primarily a good hitter,with fielding and speed second.
by Rob"t.plush"Bowden on Feb 7, 2012 3:05 PM EST up reply actions
They are both work-in-progresses
Taylor hit for power, just not average and Perez is still young enough to improve. Both it goes without saying that they both need to improve in order to be MLB caliber players. Hood took a big step forward last year, hopefully one or both of these guys does something similar this year.
Too soon to give up on them.
We Aim to Maim - JoseRijo es mi Amigo aka court
Also, you can't teach tools
Ignoring for a moment that hitting for average actually IS one of the 5 “tools”, I would imagine that the reason why you go for tools after the 2nd round is because you can’t teach them. You can’t teach speed, or arm, or range, or even power sometimes. After the first 50 or so are picked, I don’t think there are any real projected starters. Yes, I know a lot of guys end up being starters after 50, but I doubt they’re projected as such right away. If anything, that goes to show how difficult projections are for professional baseball, which is why after your first two picks it makes sense to go for the things that you can’t teach, that aren’t going anywhere, so you know that if they DO become good hitters, they got the tools to go along with them.
Cespedes?
No way he actually gets 60 mill. So why not take a serious bid on him? He could be an additional power bat we desperately need. I know there was all that talk of possibly going after him if we didn’t land Prince. So why not sneak in there and win this bid. I know everyone maybe a little skeptic with such an unknown, and Yunesky Maya doesn’t exactly help. I just feel like we can’t go into the season with Werth at CF, Morse at LF and Harper at RF. I’m not excited with anything we have coming off the bench. Love Bernadina and have been hoping he could put it together, but I also want to win now. I want Cespedes in CF, Werth in LF, Harper in RF, Morse at 1b
How much does a team pay for a complete unknown like Cespedes?
If not $60M, then, what, $40M? $20M? He’s going to want more than most teams will feel comfortable paying him. It’s “sticker shock” with him — not even in the “perhaps I can bargain” range.
Rob
--"Well my days of not taking you seriously are certainly coming to a middle." -- Mal Reynolds
harper should be in center
if harpers in center it opens us up for new trade targets like say andre ethier or nick markakis. And outfield of werth harper and markakis is a lot better than one of werth bourn and harper,In my opinion mayberry jr,markakis,jones,upton,and even chris heisey are better than bourn.hitters who really on infield singles tend to drop off the map quickly. i would love to see the nats sign victorino though,he seems to always take good swings.the nats need to take a page out of the phillies book and stand close to the plate,i hate when i see the nats take those long reaching swings that hit weak grounders,i would love to see them turn on the ball more.
by Rob"t.plush"Bowden on Feb 7, 2012 2:50 PM EST reply actions
Harper in CF is the best case scenerio
It’s just a matter of if he can play it. If Harper starts the year in the minors, I’d like to see him play CF just to see if he can. He said on twitter it’s his favorite OF position, for what it’s worth.
We Aim to Maim - JoseRijo es mi Amigo aka court
FWIW
I’d rather him play a low risk corner outfield position and hit hrs.
You guys. You lollygag the ball around the infield. You lollygag your way down to first. You lollygag in and out of the dugout. You know what that makes you? Larry!
He's young; he'll be OK physically
If we all really believe he’ll bail to the Yankees the moment he can, I say the Nats ought to let him play CF and extract as much of his talent while they can. (This assumes that he has some talent for the job, which I believe he does but others might disagree).
Rob
--"Well my days of not taking you seriously are certainly coming to a middle." -- Mal Reynolds
I am sure he'd be down to play second if someone brought it up
You guys. You lollygag the ball around the infield. You lollygag your way down to first. You lollygag in and out of the dugout. You know what that makes you? Larry!
I'd like to see them get Victorino next off-season.
He may very well be available, too.
Rob
--"Well my days of not taking you seriously are certainly coming to a middle." -- Mal Reynolds
I think that depends on contract length.
At 32, a long term contract won’t be worth it.
#extendZim
I see this conversation going on for a long time...
Rob
--"Well my days of not taking you seriously are certainly coming to a middle." -- Mal Reynolds
All I am saying is that aging CFs generally transition to a corner role, where they are often over paid.
Consider Aaron Rowand, Torii Hunter, Andruw Jones, Juan Pierre, Vernon Wells, Gary Matthews, Jr. and even Ken Griffey, Jr.
As they begin to lose the range for elite CF, they move to the corner where the salary that bought the elite defense for CF is too much given the reduced power production compared to the traditional corner OF.
#extendZim
this.
Bourn may be a better solution, but we’ll see.
You guys. You lollygag the ball around the infield. You lollygag your way down to first. You lollygag in and out of the dugout. You know what that makes you? Larry!
well he is 2 years younger than Victorino, thats my point
I wouldn’t just assume his speeds disappears.
You guys. You lollygag the ball around the infield. You lollygag your way down to first. You lollygag in and out of the dugout. You know what that makes you? Larry!
But he's nowhere near as good as Victorino.
Offensively, defensively, or even on the base paths.
Rob
--"Well my days of not taking you seriously are certainly coming to a middle." -- Mal Reynolds
Id like to imagine what Bourne's numbers would have looked like had he played for the phillies
I think they are fairly even minus the HR power.
You guys. You lollygag the ball around the infield. You lollygag your way down to first. You lollygag in and out of the dugout. You know what that makes you? Larry!
You mean because of park factors?
Enron/Minute Maid or whatever the place is called is a pretty hitter’s friendly park.
Rob
--"Well my days of not taking you seriously are certainly coming to a middle." -- Mal Reynolds
i mean
hitting in a lineup featuring Rollins, Utley, Howard, etc.
going to work everyday for a really bad team is not exactly fun.
You guys. You lollygag the ball around the infield. You lollygag your way down to first. You lollygag in and out of the dugout. You know what that makes you? Larry!
He played a third of a season for the Braves,
a reasonably good team, and posted a meager 0.6 bWAR, significantly below the rate he was playing in Houston. So… we shall see.
Rob
--"Well my days of not taking you seriously are certainly coming to a middle." -- Mal Reynolds
He did
Bourn came up in the Phillies system, and played part-time in ’06 and ’07 before being traded to Houston. In ’07 he played 105 games, posting a .277/.348/.378 slash …
Brain: "Pinky, are you pondering what i'm pondering?"
Pinky: "Yes, ... wait, ... no, ... never mind"
Fellas it’s getting close to 5 o’clock and unless someone can come up with a good idea regarding the Nats CF problem in the next 15 minutes or, as far as I’m concerned, it’s going to have to wait until tomorrow to get solved, because I need a damn drink.
I think we have a winner here!
Rob
--"Well my days of not taking you seriously are certainly coming to a middle." -- Mal Reynolds
Let the marlins get cespedes...So maybe we can steal coughlan from them
With bonifacio and cespedes maybe we can give miami Lannan(or detwiler),maya(they love cubans,and a prospect for coughlan
by Rob"t.plush"Bowden on Feb 7, 2012 2:55 PM EST reply actions
interesting idea
I can’t remember many inter-league trades in the NL East though.
You guys. You lollygag the ball around the infield. You lollygag your way down to first. You lollygag in and out of the dugout. You know what that makes you? Larry!
I'd forgotten about Milledge.
thanks for reminding me
Vivian Jaffe: "Have you ever transcended space and time?"
Albert Markovski: "Yes. No. Uh, time, not space... No, I don't know what you're talking about."
by Patrick Reddington on Feb 7, 2012 7:11 PM EST up reply actions
Milledge trade
That one didn’t work out so well, eh?
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