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Washington Nationals vs Philadelphia Phillies: Is It A Rivalry Yet? Now That A Senator Is Involved?

Opening Day in D.C.? Will Philadelphia Phillies fans be able to invade Nats Park again? Or will the "Take Back the Park" initiative lead to the Nationals fans filling up their own park? (photo by @RoscoeDC)

It wasn't the fact that the Washington Nationals signed Jayson Werth away from Philadelphia that made them angry. Phillies fans quickly came up with a punny way to deal with the loss and sum up what they thought about their former right fielder's true value. When Werth went out and had a 26 double, 20 HR, .232/.330/.389, +2.5 fWAR season in the first year of his 7-year/$126M dollar deal, after a 46 double, 27 HR, .296/.388/.532, +5.3 fWAR final season in Philadelphia, the joke was once again on the Nats. When D.C. GM Mike Rizzo and Jayson Werth reportedly joked about the Nats' NL East rivals last Spring, in a story that was later refuted by both the general manager and outfielder, that didn't seem to get to Phillies fans either, who laughed at the idea that any sort of rivalry between the two franchises even existed. The Nationals were, after all, 39-71 against the Phillies since moving from Montreal, and a brutal 15-39 against the Phillies from 2008-10 when Philadelphia made two World Series appearances, one of which ('08) resulted in their first World Series win since 1980 while the Nats lost 102, 103 and 93 games over the same three seasons...

Star-divide

Things appeared to be going in the same direction in 2011 as the Phillies were able to win five of the first six games between the two teams, taking two out of three in Nationals Park (1-2) and sweeping the first series of the year in Citizens Bank (1-5). The Nationals took two of three games in a May series with the Phillies, (3-6), and the two teams wouldn't meet again until August when they split a two-game series in August in Philadelphia, (4-7), but then the Nationals took two of three games from the Phillies in Nats Park the next weekend. A Ryan Zimmerman walk-off Grand Slam off Philly closer Ryan Madson capped off a 6-run ninth that lifted Washington to a 6-4 win on Friday night (5-7). Roy Oswalt shut the Nationals out in the Saturday game of the series, (5-8), but the Nats rallied three times in the Sunday finale with Ian Desmond and Danny Espinosa homering to tie the game in the bottoms of the sixth and ninth innings before a bases-loaded Jonny Gomes' walk-off HBP in the 10th gave the Nationals a 2-1 series win and left the season matchup with the Phillies at (6-8) in Philadelphia's favor.

With four games left, all on the road in Philly, the Nationals needed to win three of four to tie the Phillies in the season series, which no one in Philadelphia really cared about since they were already headed to the postseason for the fifth straight year. It mattered to the Nationals. The Nats swept the four game series in Citizens Bank Park (against a Triple-A Phillies team, really) with strong performance by Tom Milone, Ross Detwiler, John Lannan, Brad Peacock and especially second baseman Danny Espinosa, who was 5 for 16 with a double and two HR's in 4 games to finish the year with a .313/.392/.688 line, three doubles and seven home runs in 18 games against the Phillies. The 10-8 series win was the Nats' first against Philadelphia since 2006. Meant nothing, right?

Davey Johnson, who'd taken his time making a pitching change for a favorable matchup with a 6-1 lead, no one on and two down in the top of the ninth inning of the final game, tipped his cap to the riled-up Citizens Bank crowd as he walked back to the dugout. After the game he told reporters, "You want to compete with teams in your division. That's who you, you put the bullseye on their backs. I always, every team I've ever managed, I pick out the best team that you've got to beat. When I was with the Orioles, it was the Yankees. You've got to beat the Yankees. Over here, you're going to have to go by the Braves and Phillies and we took a step in that direction."

When the 69-year-old skipper appeared on 106.7 the FAN's Mike Wise Show with Holden Kushner in November, he was asked about his old friend Sam Perlozzo, who was a third base coach on the Johnson-managed Mets and now served in the same role with the Phillies. "He's a good one," Johnson told the hosts before taking the first shot of the 2012 season, "I really like him. I just want to hand him notice too. The last couple series [with Philadelphia] is going to be the way it's going to be all year with us and [them]." Winning the season series, though, sweeping a four-game series in late-September? What did those little "victories" really mean for a 3rd place team against a Phillies club that made five-straight post season appearances?

Even after the Nationals acquired left-hander Gio Gonzalez, making a nice addition to their starting rotation, Philly.com writer Bob Brookover was dismissive when discussing the Nats in a late-December look at the Phillies' competition. "It's great that the Washington Nationals have a cast of exciting young arms and legs and they're coming off a fine season for them that would have been a failed season for the Phillies," Mr. Brookover wrote, "One of these years, they are likely to compete for the National League East title, and it could be this one. But it's still impossible to look at the young Nats and say they're better than the Phillies."

There's no rivalry though, right? At least not in Philly fan's minds. They took over Nationals Park when they wanted to, ruined Opening Day for Nats fans, celebrated winning the division in Nats Park twice in three seasons, and even overwhelmed the D.C. fan base with humiliating, "This is our house!" chants in the Nationals' home. But still, it wasn't a rivalry, really. Until now? Even the Nationals' attempts to block Philly fans from another hostile invasion with their "Take Back the Park" campaign were initially laughed off by their NL East neighbors to the north, many of whom seemed more determined to make the road trip after hearing the news.

"'Frankly, I was tired of seeing it,'" Nats COO Andy Feffer told the Washington Post's Dan Steinberg in announcing the initiative which put tickets for the first series of the season between the two teams in May on sale early and only to fans with, "... a credit card tied to an address in Maryland, the District or Virginia," as the WaPost writer noted. "'Forget you, Philly,'" Mr. Feffer continued, "'This is our park, this is our town, these are our fans, and it’s our time right now.'"

"'I want Phillies fans to acknowledge that we’re a legitimate contender and that we’re for real,'" the Nats' COO was quoted stating, "'And you know what? If Phillies fans are a little bit irked, that means they’re paying attention.'" Philly fans paid attention. "Apparently, the Washington Nationals do not want your business," Philly.com's Bob Brookover wrote in an article on the Nats' plans, "Of course, the Phillies and the fans know the best way to take back a ballpark is by winning. That's why you don't see nearly as many Mets fans as you used to at Citizens Bank Park. And you have to search really hard to find even a single Nats fan."

Proud Philadelphian and "Bones" actor David Boreanaz (@David_Boreanaz) raised his voice on the Twitter, writing, "I say stand up Philly Fans!" when he heard about the Nats' plans to "Take Back the Park!" When that didn't work, Pennsylvania Senator Bob Casey (@SenBobCasey) decided to stand up for his constituents, writing on the Twitter, "I'm calling on the @Nationals to reverse course on a reported plan to block @Phillies fans from buying tickets to games at Nationals Park." In a letter to Nationals' owner Theodore N. Lerner (with COO Andrew Feffer and MLB Commissioner Bud Selig cc'd in), that was reprinted in a press release today, Senator Casey calls for the elimination of the ticket-purchasing policy which he says is an, "... unprecedented policy solely and unfairly targets Phillies fans."

Apparently some Phillies fans are irked a little bit, enough for a Senator to speak up on their behalf. How will the Washington Nationals respond? Whatever happens, the result is likely going to be a sold out Nationals Park for the May series between the two teams. The Nationals, their manager, their front office, they've been kicking the Phillies' and their fans' shins for some time now. Will it all translate to a rivalry on the field? In the stands? Among fans? John Lannan already hates him some Phillies! Remember what Chase Utley did to Jesus Flores? The Nationals may rally their fan base, or rally their rival's. What would really set things off? How about a pennant race?

• Suggestions for discussion below: No politics, please. Please don't say, "Don't Senators have anything else to do?" Don't feed the trolls.

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“‘Forget you, Philly,’” Mr. Feffer continued, “‘This is our park, this is our town, these are our fans, and it’s our time right now.’”

I love this quote. Couldn’t agree more. #NPN

by Tvm950 on Feb 9, 2012 10:48 PM EST reply actions  

Ah…..trust me, it WILL happen. We will struggle to match the number that Philly brings, and it will be in large part DUE to this marketing strategy. They have been challenged, and I am sure they will respond. The attendance will likely easily exceed 30K per game, but without the Nats doing this, it would have likely only been about 20-25K fans per game total. Regardless….the Nats winning and watching the multitude of Philly fans mope out of the stadium is priceless.

by sullyzz on Feb 10, 2012 1:46 PM EST up reply actions  

Just read the article on Big League Stew after reading this one.

It’s not a rivalry until there’s a pennant race and we beat them. Until then, this “take back the park stuff” is just marketing. Nats Enquirer had an article showing how group sales in the outfield are still being marketed to Philly. This gets some ink in the press and penetrates 106.7 and 980 potentially for some more eyeballs. In a lot of ways, I think that our biggest rivals are the Marlins. They seem to have owned us for some time and now we’re both vying for the title of biggest offseason upgrade in the NL East.

Waiting to bang my drum in parades for the Nats and Caps.

by souldrummer on Feb 9, 2012 11:19 PM EST reply actions  

agree

our real baseball rivalry is more with the Marlins in recent years but our geographic rivalry is def the Phillies. They are close and they are jerks…it makes for a great recipe for baseball drama ( my personal soap opera ..eat your heart “days of your lives”)

by NewJerseyAveSE on Feb 9, 2012 11:50 PM EST up reply actions  

You are correct Drummer….it is ALL about the marketing. The Nats suffer in attendance in April and early May, even against the Phillies, so this is all about getting the numbers up during an attendance dry spell.

by sullyzz on Feb 10, 2012 1:48 PM EST up reply actions  

Of course the Nats have never had Strasburg in April before, or a rotation like this ever.

Aim for the head baby Jesus

by Doncosmic on Feb 10, 2012 4:25 PM EST up reply actions  

Oh, we gotsumpinfuhdeyass

No question

"I can go to my left or right, I am amphibious." - Charles Shackelford

by Whupass on Feb 10, 2012 10:29 PM EST up reply actions  

Best ever

Was Zim whacking a walk off come from behind Grand Salami last season…

More of that. And ticket sales wont be an issue. I think if the Nats start to own the Phillies – they’ll stop turning up.

Ian Desmond is my hero!

by Mezza on Feb 10, 2012 12:41 AM EST reply actions  

Exactly…..In the RFK days, it was the Mets who swarmed our home; where did the Mets fans go? Ahhh….that’s right. When Philly begins to decline, which I believe is beginning its’ submerge this season, we will begin to see less and less of their fans, and may begin to see more and more Nats fans IN PHILLY. Tickets will one day be difficult to come by at Nats Park….that’s one of the reasons that we will never give up our season ticket package.

by sullyzz on Feb 10, 2012 1:51 PM EST up reply actions  

Does Brookover not remember the 4 game sweep in Philly at the end of the season?

It’s not really the best time for him to make comments like that. Anyways, I will continue to love watching Howard deteriorate at 1b and ruin their cap at the same time. Their time is almost over; they will not win a World Series again for a while.

Skins rule

by Horcasitas4 on Feb 10, 2012 12:48 AM EST reply actions  

And there was at least one Nats fan watching from inside Citizens Bank in that series...

I saw a few there actually, some even dared to wear Nats gear.

Vivian Jaffe: "Have you ever transcended space and time?"
Albert Markovski: "Yes. No. Uh, time, not space... No, I don't know what you're talking about."

by Patrick Reddington on Feb 10, 2012 1:00 AM EST up reply actions  

Lame argument

…and one no champion would resort to – if they do, well, maybe they aren’t…hey, they aren’t champions, come to think.

There is no fractional stat for W. There is no W/5 or W/anything. You lose, man up, and they lost. We took that series from them – and this season, we shall take many more. Hide and watch.

"I can go to my left or right, I am amphibious." - Charles Shackelford

by Whupass on Feb 10, 2012 10:38 PM EST up reply actions  

nor forgiveness.......

I even dislike Uggla because his name starts with a U…

"...I don't want to go watch American League baseball." -Lance Berkman....
I wanna watch the "... tape-measure-testing, laser-throwing, eyeblack-oozing baseball cyborg."

by cat daddy3000 on Feb 10, 2012 11:18 AM EST up reply actions  

I will never forget what Lannan did to Utley in his debut! One of the reasons that Lannan should NEVER be traded! Put him in the Ring of Honor I say!

by sullyzz on Feb 10, 2012 1:53 PM EST up reply actions  

In 2007, he began the year for high-A Potomac going 6-0, 2.13ERA and was promoted to Double-A Harrisburg. He went 3–2, 3.25 ERA and got bumped up to Triple-A Columbus, started six games, and went 3–1, 1.75 ERA—and all of this before July ended.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Lannan

“On Aug 6, 2007, his 3rd major league start, he found himself on the national stage as he faced the San Francisco Giants at AT&T Park in Barry Bonds’s first start after tying Hank Aaron’s Major League Baseball’s home run record. The 22-year old Lannan held Bonds to no hits ; in four plate appearances Bonds fouled out to third, walked, grounded into a double play, and, as Lannan’s last batter, struck out on a 3-2 curveball with two out and one on in the seventh.”

"...I don't want to go watch American League baseball." -Lance Berkman....
I wanna watch the "... tape-measure-testing, laser-throwing, eyeblack-oozing baseball cyborg."

by cat daddy3000 on Feb 10, 2012 4:32 PM EST up reply actions  

I really hate Philly phan...

It’s no phun going to a game against the Phillies. I been once and I don’t know if I’ll go again…

by Berndaddy on Feb 10, 2012 10:40 AM EST reply actions  

Unfortunately, a lot of fans feel that way…..but they win when we allow that to happen. Can’t be intimidated my friend.

by sullyzz on Feb 10, 2012 1:55 PM EST up reply actions  

well to be fair

anyone I know who goes to Philadelphia to watch a sporting event gets verbally abused the entire time. Not the environment I really intend to go watch a game. Philly fans I know take pride in the fact that its such an unpleasurable experience to go see a game at their fields. So to have this kind of push back for this Nats stuff seems well…pathetic.

And I’ll bring up the Senators comments (I know I know). But apparently there has been enough commentary or requests or direct requests to the Senator to ask him to do something. Seems well….pathetic.

This all may blow up in the Nats faces anyways as many of you have pointed out. But I am most annoyed by their whining. Who really buys tickets on team websites anyways? Stubhub anyone? Craigslist? Such a dumb reaction

You guys. You lollygag the ball around the infield. You lollygag your way down to first. You lollygag in and out of the dugout. You know what that makes you? Larry!

by Bsullivan on Feb 10, 2012 11:17 AM EST reply actions  

OVER-RATED!

I think philly’s hostile game day environment is overrated, likely more attributed to the actions of a few crazies. I went to a WIz/76ers game up there a few years ago. Saw a fair amount of Wiz fans, to my delight (and yes…this was when they were good, if you’re wondering). Nobody said a word to me, and I cheered all game. I’ve walked around philly on game day wearing my Redskins jersey, nobody said a word to me. I even know two Nats fans who regularly see our boys play up there, wearing jerseys and all, and they haven’t had a bad experience yet.

IMO the philly takeovers will stop when either A.) we have a nice 3-4 year run of moderate success (or better), or B.) the phillies start sucking. I think both are certainly viable options in the next 5 years. Look at the Caps, they have been competitive for the past 5+ years and when the flyers come to town you don’t see any more than a few orange dots when they pan over the crowd. I think we are already on our way towards that, as even the casual DC sports fan knows there is a huge buzz around the Nats this year.

Due to the transient nature of the area and proximity to philly, there will probably always be more phillies fans at Nats Park than fans of any other visitor. But if this season goes anywhere according to plan (knocks on wood), I think the clock will be ticking for “takeovers” from any visiting team.

by terpsDC on Feb 10, 2012 12:21 PM EST reply actions  

And one last thing

Concerning takeovers this year, what I’m actually REALLY worried about is the yankees game. Have you seen what they do to camden yards? Plus there has to be more new yorkers/new jerseyites in DC than in baltimore. Hell, College Park is a yankee fan stronghold. Plus think of all the cowboys fans in the area, you know at least 90% of them are yankees fans. It’s just inevitable.

by terpsDC on Feb 10, 2012 12:33 PM EST up reply actions  

"Plus think of all the cowboys fans in the area, you know at least 90% of them are yankees fans. It’s just inevitable."

C’mon, stop picking on Bryce!! Kidding of course.

Vivian Jaffe: "Have you ever transcended space and time?"
Albert Markovski: "Yes. No. Uh, time, not space... No, I don't know what you're talking about."

by Patrick Reddington on Feb 10, 2012 12:53 PM EST via mobile up reply actions  

Oh man….hope Bryce doesn’t wear his Yankee cap, like Obama wore his Sox cap! That would be embarrassing!

by sullyzz on Feb 10, 2012 2:01 PM EST up reply actions  

Haha!

Didn’t even think of Bryce.

Kinda OT, but I think all the hate over his fandom is silly. Sure he’s a front-runner, and thats mad annoying. I get it. But if the kid works his butt off, lives up to the hype and helps win us a pennant, I could really care less if he’s a tool and who he cheers for at home…

by terpsDC on Feb 10, 2012 5:32 PM EST up reply actions  

As an Alabama fan, I never understood why so many other fans hated the Crimson Tide so much, or why they made such a big deal out of Bama fans always taking over their stadiums….now I totally get it. I would imagine that Yankee fans take over every ballpark they play in, with the exception of Fenway and maybe another one or two. So yeah…..Nats Park will be sold out each of those games against the Yankees, and I would imagine that the Nats fans will be sorely outnumbered.

by sullyzz on Feb 10, 2012 2:00 PM EST up reply actions  

An easier way to learn would just be to go to an Alabama home basketball game against Kentucky.

Aim for the head baby Jesus

by Doncosmic on Feb 10, 2012 4:36 PM EST up reply actions  

I'll probably be at all three of those games :-)

Last time the Yanks were in town I wore Yankee gear to one game (the one where Zim hit the walkoff off of CMW) and Nats gear to the other (that was the one of three games in that series the Yankees actually won). Yes, that’s right, whichever team’s jersey that I wore for either game lost. I tried not to take it personally, but it was tough!

It was odd, more or less rooting for everyone. I was happy when Zim hit the walkoff, and happy when Rivera closed out the 9th the next night for the save.

by d_c_guy on Feb 10, 2012 5:10 PM EST up reply actions  

This year....

the Nats will sweep’em.

Rob

--"Well my days of not taking you seriously are certainly coming to a middle." -- Mal Reynolds

by RobBobS on Feb 10, 2012 5:19 PM EST via mobile up reply actions  

For a second time, Rob and I agree

Need us some broom up in here. Three for three.

"I can go to my left or right, I am amphibious." - Charles Shackelford

by Whupass on Feb 10, 2012 6:27 PM EST up reply actions  

I'll take that bet.

Have to give it to NYC, though, I grew up a fan and they were really not good yet the fanbase remained. And when they were great, the WHOLE city was with them. I remember Scott B’s homer in the postseason, I was sitting in my apartment and you heard this primordial dull roar from all around your walls. But I got on the Nats because, in part, I couldn’t stand the mercenary strategy of the 2000s… I love so much how well we’ve built from within.

by William.Hatheway on Feb 10, 2012 9:25 PM EST up reply actions  

NYC?

Perhaps you are lost, sir. To find an NYC forum, take Wisconsin Av. to M St. and hang a left. At 700 Wisconsin, knock on the door and ask for Mr. Fish. Go in.

"I can go to my left or right, I am amphibious." - Charles Shackelford

by Whupass on Feb 10, 2012 10:49 PM EST up reply actions  

'Sunday Night Baseball'

ESPN Sunday Night Baseball on May 6 is the Phillies at Nationals. Could it sell out?

by HG_VA on Feb 10, 2012 7:35 PM EST reply actions  

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